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  #51  
Old 02-11-2024, 06:30 PM
ColbyBruce ColbyBruce is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LVSteve View Post
HUH! I own a Hungarian PP clone, but I've never seen a Turkish one. How are they marked?

Google search will bring up plenty of photos; I don’t have any photos of my former guns.
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  #52  
Old 02-11-2024, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by LVSteve View Post
HUH! I own a Hungarian PP clone, but I've never seen a Turkish one. How are they marked?
The grips will either say MKE or Kirikkale depending on when it was made.

The side of the frame will also be stamped MKE

Last edited by offrdmania; 02-11-2024 at 06:58 PM.
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  #53  
Old 02-11-2024, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by offrdmania View Post
All of the Turkish MP5s, HK94's, HK93's, etc. was produced under license from H&K at the Kirkkale plant of the Turkish firm of MKE. Patents may have expired but H&K still owns all intellectual rights to the design.
I don’t know if the Turkish MP-5’s were licensed by HK, however, my department issued the MP-5 and HK-94. I was an HK armorer and HK was very specific, they would not support or supply parts for clones. Only HK factory products. I understand some agencies purchased clones and were unable to source repair parts. At least from HK.
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  #54  
Old 02-11-2024, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by K Frame Keith View Post
I don’t know if the Turkish MP-5’s were licensed by HK, however, my department issued the MP-5 and HK-94. I was an HK armorer and HK was very specific, they would not support or supply parts for clones. Only HK factory products. I understand some agencies purchased clones and were unable to source repair parts. At least from HK.
It is my understanding that all of the machinery and dies came from H&K so it wouldnt necessarily be a clone if they were built using factory made dies supplied by H&K
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  #55  
Old 02-11-2024, 11:42 PM
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I think you heard wrong; they're bringing back the Bren 10.

Back in 2002ish there was a gun shop in Lakewood, a few miles from the McChord AFB gate - he had several P7 police turn-ins. He was asking $900 even back then. I thought they were interesting, but way too expensive for a 9mm in my opinion.
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  #56  
Old 02-12-2024, 01:44 AM
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Originally Posted by hkcavalier View Post
Interesting! Made in TX. Can’t wait for the YT reviews. Were they at SHOT? If not they missed some serious marketing buzz.
I kicked myself a bit, as I was in Austin last week. Should’ve investigated at bit… In a manner that wasn’t disruptive.

The buzz has been high over at HKPro, where there is an audience willing to slap down $4000 for a bespoke build of a gun H&K discontinued when Bill Clinton was president. The P7 plan is presently to build 100s a year, not a SHOT Show volume.

The buyers of this new P7 are folks with some cash in their pockets, an appreciation for the complexity of a new manufacturing entity faces and a willingness to invest in a teething process. The builder is savvy to assess the audience and ramp slowly.

Personally, I am a potential buyer. Always have wanted a P7, but recall my college days when a $1100 M13 tempted me for months at the local Scheel’s used case. While arguably worth $1100 then, that was beyond my student means, even working three jobs.

My then-somewhat hot 21-yoa girlfriend bought a sweet late 80’s manufactured SIG P225 out of that upscale Scheel’s case. While the old girlfriend probably looks pretty decent now, there is no way that P225 hasn’t aged much, much better. C’est la vie.

(Only mentioning this because the ex girlfriend is almost certainly not on S&W forum, as she would move onto a G23C before our love affair soured… However, the P225 is one of the relationship benefits I miss the most.)
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  #57  
Old 02-12-2024, 09:19 AM
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HardToHandle, this is for you.
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  #58  
Old 02-12-2024, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn R. McMannly View Post
The gun supposedly will feature some modern enhancements such as ambi controls, optics cuts, and a picadilly rail for mounting a torch.

I strongly detest when gunmakers bring back an older design, only to add modernized additions and not offer a more classic model aligned with the originals. The optics cut isn't too bad provided that the plate screws don't stick out like sore thumbs or look silly, but I have great disdain for multi-slot rails on the front of pistols ruining their good looks and smooth lines, and having the rail being the only option.
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  #59  
Old 02-12-2024, 12:19 PM
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I strongly detest when gunmakers bring back an older design, only to make add modernized additions and not offer a more classic model aligned with the originals. The optics cut isn't too bad provided that the plate screws don't stick out like sore thumbs or look silly, but I have great disdain for multi-slot rails on the front of pistols ruining their good looks and smooth lines, and having the rail being the only option.

They are all being offered as options… meaning if you want a traditional P7, it is offered (pick the right options). Want to add a railed dust cover… done. Beavertail? Carry trigger guard? The bigger thing I like is the option between steel, alloy and Titanium frames as it gives people options for what they will use it for.

Slides and barrels have even more options, like serrations, compensated, extended, threaded, optics cut.

The P7 came out in the late 1970s. A lot of advancement in pistol technology occurred in the past 40+ years. For a company to bring back a pistol that there is a market for, I support that. Adding in they are allowing people to buy a traditional version or one that is modified for what people want today… I say that is a good business model. Especially when not just doing one setup across the board likely will hurt profits.

Myself… I’ve wanted a P7M8 for years. I look at them on Gunbroker from time to time, but hard for me to swallow $3,000+ on a gun that is used and that I want to shoot. P7Pro will likely get my money, as a standard P7M8 reproduction is just at $2,500. I can swallow that, especially with their ties to HKPro and lifetime warranty. I want something to shoot… as well as zero issues carrying. This appears to meet those requirements.
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  #60  
Old 02-12-2024, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Screwball View Post
They are all being offered as options… meaning if you want a traditional P7, it is offered (pick the right options). Want to add a railed dust cover… done. Beavertail? Carry trigger guard? The bigger thing I like is the option between steel, alloy and Titanium frames as it gives people options for what they will use it for.

Slides and barrels have even more options, like serrations, compensated, extended, threaded, optics cut.

The P7 came out in the late 1970s. A lot of advancement in pistol technology occurred in the past 40+ years. For a company to bring back a pistol that there is a market for, I support that. Adding in they are allowing people to buy a traditional version or one that is modified for what people want today… I say that is a good business model. Especially when not just doing one setup across the board likely will hurt profits.

Myself… I’ve wanted a P7M8 for years. I look at them on Gunbroker from time to time, but hard for me to swallow $3,000+ on a gun that is used and that I want to shoot. P7Pro will likely get my money, as a standard P7M8 reproduction is just at $2,500. I can swallow that, especially with their ties to HKPro and lifetime warranty. I want something to shoot… as well as zero issues carrying. This appears to meet those requirements.

That's great to hear. Nothing I like more than options when ordering - having both classic and modern styled options satisfy all parties.
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  #61  
Old 02-12-2024, 03:13 PM
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I wish Beretta would take that rail off, or offer one without on the new “Cheetah”.
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  #62  
Old 02-12-2024, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by HardToHandle View Post
I kicked myself a bit, as I was in Austin last week. Should’ve investigated at bit… In a manner that wasn’t disruptive.

The buzz has been high over at HKPro, where there is an audience willing to slap down $4000 for a bespoke build of a gun H&K discontinued when Bill Clinton was president. The P7 plan is presently to build 100s a year, not a SHOT Show volume.

The buyers of this new P7 are folks with some cash in their pockets, an appreciation for the complexity of a new manufacturing entity faces and a willingness to invest in a teething process. The builder is savvy to assess the audience and ramp slowly.

Personally, I am a potential buyer. Always have wanted a P7, but recall my college days when a $1100 M13 tempted me for months at the local Scheel’s used case. While arguably worth $1100 then, that was beyond my student means, even working three jobs.

My then-somewhat hot 21-yoa girlfriend bought a sweet late 80’s manufactured SIG P225 out of that upscale Scheel’s case. While the old girlfriend probably looks pretty decent now, there is no way that P225 hasn’t aged much, much better. C’est la vie.

(Only mentioning this because the ex girlfriend is almost certainly not on S&W forum, as she would move onto a G23C before our love affair soured… However, the P225 is one of the relationship benefits I miss the most.)
I understand your pain. From several relationships, I miss a 4" round butt M19 that I shot expert with while at the police academy, a Marlin 1894 .357, a garage, a Ruger Speed Six .357, an NAA .22 Magnum and a Savage M24 Camper .22 LR/20 gauge.

The women, I don't miss them a dang bit!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  #63  
Old 02-12-2024, 06:23 PM
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I understand your pain. From several relationships, I miss a 4" round butt M19 that I shot expert with while at the police academy, a Marlin 1894 .357, a garage, a Ruger Speed Six .357, an NAA .22 Magnum and a Savage M24 Camper .22 LR/20 gauge.

The women, I don't miss them a dang bit!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would like to hear about the missing garage.
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  #64  
Old 02-12-2024, 06:57 PM
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I would like to hear about the missing garage.
When we got di-vorced, she got the house and the new garage I had had built.
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  #65  
Old 02-12-2024, 07:10 PM
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When we got di-vorced, she got the house and the new garage I had had built.

Sorry for your loss. Did the garage floor have that nice speckled epoxy finish?
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  #66  
Old 02-12-2024, 07:11 PM
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Grabbed a German Police P7/PSP years back when they were $350-$400, and recall having to pay the outrageous sum of $50 for another mag.
Found that it shot like a rifle - without a doubt the most accurate 9mm I've ever owned.

Yes - regarded as heavy and off-balance compared to today's poly-pistols - but I've carried it without any reservations in a Speed-Scabbard style holster. Winchester 127 gr Ranger +P+ performed perfectly in it as a carry load. Great trigger once you get used to it.

Probably not in the limelight anymore - perhaps I should use it as a doorstop or turn in at a buy-back.
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  #67  
Old 02-13-2024, 03:06 AM
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Sorry for your loss. Did the garage floor have that nice speckled epoxy finish?
No, just plain old concrete. I had sectioned off an 8' x 20' shop area. A couple of work benches, insulated, well lighted. Oh well.
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  #68  
Old 02-13-2024, 03:56 AM
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Originally Posted by offrdmania View Post
I see a lawsuit from H&K if they ever get built. I only see renderings on that web page.

The address listed for the business is a house in Austin Texas
I wish them well as a legitimate business with a waiting clientele - but it is odd that they are based out of what appears to be a single family home in a residential neighborhood. I'd expect to see a shop or industrial building, with barbed wire and Rottweilers.
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Old 02-13-2024, 11:52 AM
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I wish them well as a legitimate business with a waiting clientele - but it is odd that they are based out of what appears to be a single family home in a residential neighborhood. I'd expect to see a shop or industrial building, with barbed wire and Rottweilers.
Exactly. Look at the hoops and lawsuits that Tommybuilt went through when he first started. H&K doesnt mess around with their intellectual rights.
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  #70  
Old 02-13-2024, 04:01 PM
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Sent a message to P7Pro… just basic questions regarding ordering/frame differences. Will report what I hear back.
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  #71  
Old 02-13-2024, 05:13 PM
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I shot a P7 when they first came out and was pretty impressed with it. I had heard the NJSP had several ADs with it but that seems very odd to me because it takes a lot of strength to squeeze the grip before firing. The reason the gun was so accurate was because of the fixed barrel. I always wondered why they didn't make other pistols with a similar system instead of the Browning "tilting barrel" locking system.
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Old 02-13-2024, 05:23 PM
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The reason the gun was so accurate was because of the fixed barrel. I always wondered why they didn't make other pistols with a similar system instead of the Browning "tilting barrel" locking system.
Like Walther, Makarov, smaller Brownings, etc?
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  #73  
Old 02-13-2024, 05:43 PM
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The officers didn't appreciate the loud click when cocking it,
I once commented on the click to an HK rep and he said, "Oh, that's not a problem." He did something with a screwdriver and it didn't click anymore.
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  #74  
Old 02-13-2024, 05:46 PM
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IIRC about the click, you pull back on the slide about 1/4 to 1/3", THEN you release the pressure from the front strap.

I'd wager the AD's came from from finger-on-the-trigger and then squeezing the front-strap. They will fire that way, in a convoluted, D-A manner.
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Old 02-13-2024, 08:01 PM
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I saw one in the used gun case at an LGS some years ago. It was priced at $999. I knew they weren't common and wondered what the big deal was about them that justified that price. I handled it and thought the squeeze cocking feature was one of the dumbest things ever. And it made a noise like cracking a dry chicken bone when you cocked it. I could see why it was discontinued.

It did have a good feel in the hand though once you had it in a good firing grip. But I put it back and said thanks, but no thanks.
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Old 02-13-2024, 10:28 PM
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The squeeze-cock P7/M8 was an issued weapon to our SWAT group years ago. We had a few NDs from careless handling (a training issue we addressed), and I didn’t care for the somewhat loud click when the weapon was made ready as the team was making an entry.
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  #77  
Old 02-13-2024, 11:05 PM
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Patents may have expired but H&K still owns all intellectual rights to the design.
INAL but when a patent expires, anyone and his brother can make the item without concern for licenses or royalties.

"Once a patent expires, the protection ends, and an invention enters the public domain; that is, anyone can commercially exploit the invention without infringing the patent."

Public domain mean that the originator no longer has any rights to the IP.

If they had trademarked the shape, they could be clinging to that but to do that, you have to state that the shape has noting to do with the function. For example, the Coke bottle.
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  #78  
Old 02-15-2024, 08:39 PM
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True. They can't use the H&K name, but the design becomes public domain. Taurus, EAA, and now the Turkish companies are making plenty of hay on that concept. Not to mention all the American AR, AK, and 1911 makers.

While mildly interesting, there's just so many $2k-$3k guns I'd want ahead of a P7 remake that I'd likely never get one.
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Old 02-15-2024, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorLouis View Post
IIRC about the click, you pull back on the slide about 1/4 to 1/3", THEN you release the pressure from the front strap.

I'd wager the AD's came from from finger-on-the-trigger and then squeezing the front-strap. They will fire that way, in a convoluted, D-A manner.
Exactly, worked with a LEO who put a round through the Lt's foot this way. Not a good way to get along with the boss!
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Old 02-15-2024, 08:50 PM
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$2,500 for a carry pistol? Maybe if I was spending unlimited tax dollars or I won the PowerBall. However, I have other things to do with $2,500 like pay my property taxes.

I've always thought that they were cool guns and were on my list of "guns to get if the price is right" like the M-29 or P1.

A friend had one back in the 90s wanted to sell it. I believe that he asked and got $1,000 for it back then.

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Old 02-16-2024, 08:06 AM
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I bought a 380 Version of the P7 many years ago in Bozeman, it's sitting unfired in my gun vault to this day. A dealer told me they are very rare in the US but a lot of them were sold in Europe back in the day.
That sounds like a P7K3. Available in 3 calibers, .22, .32ACP and .380. They were available with all 3 calibres. You could swap barrels, slides and mags. That would be a fun find.
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