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  #1  
Old 02-27-2024, 03:25 PM
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Not the usual gun that I buy but I cold not pass it up. It was part of a package deal with three Smiths. I'm not even sure what it's worth but I was happy. ANIB, as in I don't think it's been shot w/original box, etc. Field stripped it and it looked new. Cute was what I thought when I first saw it.
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Old 02-27-2024, 03:34 PM
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Well made for a .25, made by Astra of Spain. $3-400 probably
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Old 02-27-2024, 03:42 PM
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Well made for a .25, made by Astra of Spain. $3-400 probably
I think this one is a little later.. Firearms International, Inc.
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Old 02-27-2024, 05:53 PM
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Just curious - how do we know it was made by Astra?
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Old 02-27-2024, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ISCS Yoda View Post
Just curious - how do we know it was made by Astra?
Astra Cub, Astra 2000, Astra 1st model, etc. - no denying the similarities, and in some models identical excepting markings and grips.

If I recall correctly these began production in the early 1950s. Way past Colt's heyday of manufacturing the little Browning pocket pistols.
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Old 02-27-2024, 06:24 PM
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I have the 22 short version of the Astra. Fun little range toy. Always wanted the Colt Junior, but settled on the Beretta Jetfire. Back in the 90s I carried a Colt Old Model Pocket in 25. I'm much older and a little wiser now.
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Old 02-27-2024, 07:52 PM
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It may look cute, but apparently it can dispatch even the fiercest of predators...

A different kind of Bear Thread.-25acp_bear_defense-jpg
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Old 02-27-2024, 08:14 PM
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Pocket pistols in 25 or 32 are another rabbit hole of collecting. I was given this Ruby by ma-in-law#1. No maker's marks anywhere, and its shape and machining suggest it was made in a small workshop somewhere. Definitely not to Colt or Astra standards of manufacture. Even the guy that runs the Unblinking Eye website on pocket pistols said it was "different".

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Old 02-27-2024, 08:49 PM
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Looks like made in Pakistan, on the Afghanistan border.
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Old 02-27-2024, 09:19 PM
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Looks like made in Pakistan, on the Afghanistan border.
More like Spain, near the French border.
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Old 02-27-2024, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Retired W4 View Post
Not the usual gun that I buy but I cold not pass it up. It was part of a package deal with three Smiths. I'm not even sure what it's worth but I was happy. ANIB, as in I don't think it's been shot w/original box, etc. Field stripped it and it looked new. Cute was what I thought when I first saw it.
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I think this one is a little later.. Firearms International, Inc.
I have the Astra, and the history I've read indicated the Colts were made under license by Astra and marked for Colt, but other than markings they were the same gun.
Could Firearms International be an importer?
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Old 02-27-2024, 09:57 PM
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FIE Model A27 The Best .25 Auto
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Old 02-27-2024, 10:01 PM
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Manufacturer: FIE
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Old 02-27-2024, 10:17 PM
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I think this one is a little later.. Firearms International, Inc.
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Interesting data point. I knew the FIE looked a lot like the Cub and Junior, but I didn't know it was the same gun still being built by Astra.
Astra and Colt mags are getting a little scarce and pricey. I'm gonna' have to see about price & availability for the FIE Best A27

EDIT: a quick check on GunBroker showed that I was thinking of the common FIE Titan - which doesn't seem to be the same as the Best.
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Old 02-28-2024, 02:40 AM
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The Colt Junior .25 ACP was the Astra Cub made for Colt by Astra. The later FIE marked Colts were made by imported parts after 1968 when it became illegal to import small handguns that did not meet the import criteria of having target features. Quality suffered of the Guns sold as "The Best" compared to the Astra Colts made in Spain. Hard to say what you have by the one pic but the Astra Cub is surely one of the best .25 ACP and .22 Short autos ever made. Your gun appears to be post 68 manufacture of imported parts. True Colt Juniors are marked Junior Colt on the slide and made in Spain on the frame. Still pricey on GB and with the box, probably $500 up to whatever the market will bear.

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Old 02-28-2024, 07:24 AM
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The Colt Junior .25 ACP was the Astra Cub made for Colt by Astra. The later FIE marked Colts were made by imported parts after 1968 when it became illegal to import small handguns that did not meet the import criteria of having target features. Quality suffered of the Guns sold as "The Best" compared to the Astra Colts made in Spain. Hard to say what you have by the one pic but the Astra Cub is surely one of the best .25 ACP and .22 Short autos ever made. Your gun appears to be post 68 manufacture of imported parts. True Colt Juniors are marked Junior Colt on the slide and made in Spain on the frame. Still pricey on GB and with the box, probably $500 up to whatever the market will bear.
This gun is not marked FIE with none of the import marks required by GCA 68, Name, town, State. The warranty card is marked WC 68, which I assume is a date code'

Left side of slide: Colt's PT. F. A. MFG. CO.
HARTFORD. CT. U.S.A. Rampant Colt
Right side: Colt Automatic
Caliber .25
Small 8 on base of grip frame
SN: OD 45429
Box appears to be typical Colt of the day
Fjestad's Blue Book mentions "Mfg. by Firearms International for Colt 1970-1973".

I can see how Colt got around the requirements of GCA 68 by assembling imported parts. Regardless, I still think it's cute!
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Old 02-28-2024, 10:03 AM
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I agree! like them, even though they may not be "real Colts" whatever that may be. Astra made high quality handguns, and i still have tbree in my collection: a .32 acp Astra 300 from the Spanish Civil War with its Spanish Civil War holster, an Astra 300 in .380 with Nazi German markings and the matching holster, and an Astra 600 in 9mm Parabellum with Nazi German markings, also with its Nazi German holster.
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Old 02-28-2024, 10:25 AM
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Many years ago I carried an Astra Cub .22 short in my pocket for about 25 years. Great little pistol but on one of my dumb days I sold it. Larry
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Old 02-28-2024, 12:11 PM
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Prior to GCA68, Colt contracted with ASTRA to mfgr Astra's Model 2000 Cub pistol .
These were marked Junior/Colt cal 25...or Junior/Colt cal .22
The slide has the Colt Hartford address on them
The frame is marked Made in Spain for Colt's.

No mfg'rg was done in the USA. Just turned around and sold.
Ser#'s were from
1CC to 85,600CC
with a few gaps in the 62k to 75k range

Import stopped with the 68GCA as the small pistol failed the ATF Import Point test (non-sporting handgun).

At that point Colt contracted with Firearms International in Florida to make the clone of the Astra in the USA.
** Not 'FIE' which is often reported as the contract company

Some say there were no Astra parts involved in this second version/USA mfg'r Junior pistol. Others say Astra was stillproviding internal parts.
...Another question unanswered unless you absolutely believe a particular source.
This second version of the Junior was introd by Colt in 1970.
It was discontinued in 1973.
Ser #'s for this production run are:
OD01001 thru OD120471 (Corrected)

Ser#s for these 2nd generation Juniors are of some dispute. I believe the #'s I've given are correct.
There are several sources that give slightly different #'s by shifting the zero's around and also by stating that the ser#'s were 'started over each of the years'.

There is also a lot of claims that FIE made the 2nd gen pistols for Colt with Astra parts and new mfg USA frames in FLA.
But Firearms International is I believe the correct company.
FI had an office in Fla as well. Other info states that FI made the frames and assembled the pistols in Accokeek,MD,,the same facility that Beretta would later use to build the M9 pistol.
I don't know if that's true or not or if they built and assembled them in Fla.
Does it matter?

After Colt and Firearms International were done with the pistol in 1973,,then FIE (Firearms Import Export) comes into the picture.
FI went out of business around 1975.
FIE pick up the little pistol and start mfg'g the gun in the USA as the
'Best' Model A-27'.
Colt was not involved with the FIE 'Best Model' guns at all.
Some say Astra continued to supply some internal parts. Others say they did not. This production continued into the early 80's IIRC.

The Astra/Colt Juniors are fine little shooters.
I've had a couple of the .22short editions over the years being a fan of Spanish handguns.
The last one was an $80 special that was actually in very nice condition. The guy just needed $$. He set the price.
Should hung on to it,,but there it went for some some other forgotten sparkly piece of trade .
Always reliable they were and fun to shoot.

Last edited by 2152hq; 02-29-2024 at 10:34 AM. Reason: ser# correction
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Old 02-28-2024, 03:56 PM
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The serial number on mine, OD45429 is way higher than your stated second run from 1970-1973. Makes me wonder where it fits in.

I must say, 2153hq, that was a very in depth post on these diminutive guns.
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Old 02-28-2024, 06:28 PM
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Really like my Astra Cub, and it is pretty darn accurate for a tiny pocket pistol with basically no sights.

This was a 5yd target. I was aiming at the color line between the 7 and 8.


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Old 02-28-2024, 06:59 PM
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Don’t the ‘Real’ Colt 25s have a Grip Safety?
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Old 02-28-2024, 07:24 PM
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Don’t the ‘Real’ Colt 25s have a Grip Safety?
The "Vest Pocket" model of 1908 - yes.
The Colt Junior - no. Or at least I've never seen one with a grip safety.

If you only consider pistols built in the USA to be "Real" Colts, then yes, I guess you could say that "Real" Colts have a grip safety.
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Old 02-28-2024, 07:39 PM
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I wish the Cub was offered in .32ACP. That would be the perfect pocket pistol.
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Old 02-28-2024, 08:01 PM
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It may look cute, but apparently it can dispatch even the fiercest of predators...

A different kind of Bear Thread.-25acp_bear_defense-jpg
I think the bear had a heart problem and when he saw the gun he got nervous and died of a heart attack.
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Old 02-28-2024, 08:24 PM
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They do have a magazine disconnect so when the mag is removed the fool does not shoot his buddy thinking the gun is unloaded. John Browning had the same idea with the M-1935.
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Old 02-29-2024, 01:33 AM
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Astra Cubs have a magazine safety that is easily removed if you don't like them. I have four Astra Cubs from the 60s that are original made in Spain guns. Two in .25 ACP and two in .22 Short. I removed the magazine safety from all four. Drive out the pin behind the trigger, shake out the safety and spring, replace the pin. I'm sure the Colt have the same thing. You're supposed to know if your gun has a round in the chamber
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Old 02-29-2024, 01:55 AM
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Anyone have an Astra Camper ? .22LR with a 4" tube. Should make a great kit-gun.
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Old 02-29-2024, 03:49 AM
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Quote:
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I think the bear had a heart problem and when he saw the gun he got nervous and died of a heart attack.
Perhaps he died laughing.
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Old 02-29-2024, 05:58 AM
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The bear might have been shot by Auric Goldfinger. He shoots only for the right eye and never misses.
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Old 02-29-2024, 07:32 AM
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Anyone have an Astra Camper ? .22LR with a 4" tube. Should make a great kit-gun.
Here ya go..the little ones are my favorites, the Camper pictured below took forever to find. It was a grail gun for me and when I found it at a local Cabelas I wasn' leaving without it. There just aren't that many Campers to be found.




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Old 02-29-2024, 08:02 AM
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The Colt Vest Pocket Model with the Grip safety is one that I like a lot. It is extremely high quality and considering that it is so puny and basically has just a tunnel sight, it can hit relatively accurately. I have shot thousands of rounds through it and it has never ever had a FTF or jam.

So would I carry it in Bear Country - ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! Would I carry it as a last ditch, deep concealment back up gun - maybe. I also have a few two tone mag's for it as well.
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Old 02-29-2024, 08:55 AM
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I keep seeing grip safety being mentioned--Astra made the 200 Firecat which does have the grip safety. I didn't have a pic of mine so I lifted this off of the internet.

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Old 02-29-2024, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
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The serial number on mine, OD45429 is way higher than your stated second run from 1970-1973. Makes me wonder where it fits in.

I must say, 2153hq, that was a very in depth post on these diminutive guns.
I posted the incorrect final ser# for the post '68 mfg Juniors.

I believe it should be OD120471

I made a correction in the orig post as well.
Thank you for pointing out the inconsistancy and out of place number.
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Old 02-29-2024, 10:39 AM
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Default Check the serial number some were actually made by Colt

Way back when I was actively pursuing and "accumulating" Colt firearms, I was on a business trip and ran across this little gem in a "off-the-beaten-path" photo store selling cameras, lenses, and mostly all photography equipment. The lady who owned the store told me it was probably a stage prop gun.

I assured her it was real, and she wanted me to take it off her hands so I did. The box of Geco ammo with 9 rounds missing, was in the original box with the Colt.

I did some research on these little guns and found that yes..Astra made them up until the 68 GCA banned all imports of this type.

Colt resumed manufacture of this particular model in Hartford in 1971 starting with serial number OD 82601, and ending production in 1973 with serial number OD 120471. These had a 2-1/4" barrel, 6 round nickel magazine marked CAL .25 COLT in block letters, skeleton hammer, checkered walnut (real wood) grips with silver medallions.

I never shot the gun, and it sat until I started getting out of Colts and into S&W. This one sold pretty quickly many years ago for $550.

I haven't followed them since, but it was my understanding from research and other Colt collectors that Colt indeed did actually "manufacture" these guns for the 2 years between the above serial numbers. This particular model was known at the time as a Colt "short production run" and I guess these days is valued by Colt Collectors that have just this hole in their collection.

As always....just my opinion on things.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Colt 25 left side.jpg (36.6 KB, 28 views)
File Type: jpg Colt 25 right side.jpg (49.8 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg Colt 25 box + papers.jpg (55.1 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg Colt 25 box-2.jpg (31.7 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg Colt 25 Geco ammo-1.jpg (45.3 KB, 20 views)
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Old 02-29-2024, 10:57 AM
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Default some additional pics of s/n OD 93287

Just some additional pics of the gun above

Enjoy!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Colt 25 in box.jpg (45.2 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg Colt 25 in box-1.jpg (42.1 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg Colt 25 mag-1.jpg (28.2 KB, 20 views)
File Type: jpg Colt 25 left + mag.jpg (25.6 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg Colt 25 box-1.jpg (20.4 KB, 16 views)
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Old 02-29-2024, 03:27 PM
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Here ya go..the little ones are my favorites, the Camper pictured below took forever to find. It was a grail gun for me and when I found it at a local Cabelas I wasn' leaving without it. There just aren't that many Campers to be found.



Pretty accurate ? Minute of squirrel ?
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Old 02-29-2024, 08:36 PM
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Well, truth be told, I had several PSA (Precision Small Arms) that were replicas of the Baby Browning but as gorgeous as they were none of them shot worth a tinker's dam. All gone now but here's a picture:



Then there's this cute little CZ DUO .25 ACP made German occupied Czechoslovakia 1944:



It fires every time but at more than a few feet I never could figure out where the bullets went.

Then 3 together, including a Beretta 950 BS that actually worked well and that I carried for many years!

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Old 03-01-2024, 07:40 AM
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Pretty accurate ? Minute of squirrel ?
More like minute of coffee can and that's a large coffee can at 10 yards. I think the squirrels are safe.
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Old 03-01-2024, 04:32 PM
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I wish the Cub was offered in .32ACP. That would be the perfect pocket pistol.
Agreed.

But it would have to be made bigger to accommodate the longer & larger diameter ammo.

At that point it would be about the size & weight of a Beretta Tomcat.
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Old 03-03-2024, 11:06 AM
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You only shoot at a bear with a 25 if you are alone. If you are with someone you shoot them in the leg with it and run.
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Old 03-05-2024, 12:02 AM
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Dad had a blued Colt .25 JR as his BUG in the FBI.
It is the most accurate .25, I've ever shot.
I gave it to my cuz as he's always drooled over it.
It's still in the family and I can shoot it any time I want.

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Old 03-05-2024, 12:54 AM
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Cute for sure!
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Old 03-05-2024, 03:48 AM
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Default Cute Little Colt 25 Auto

My contribution……


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