I thought I would get a thread going again about U.S. Military surplus guns that we own or have owned in the past. Some have been fortunate enough to own some rarely seen stuff.

Here are photos of guns that I own or have owned.....and some that I regret selling!!

This first photo below is of my current U.S. Rifle/Carbine stash.

This does not show the handguns.....will have to dig those out, but the list is as follows:

2nd Model US Schofield
S&W Model 1917
Colt 1911 in original condition with correct mag
Colt 1911A1 that has been through the arsenal
S&W Victory Model U.S.N. marked and verified

PHOTO From top down:

Winchester Model 1894 .30 WCF (1918) U.S Marked "Spruce Gun"
C. Sharps .50-70
Springfield Model 1873 Trapdoor .45-70
Springfield Model 1879 Trapdoor Carbine .45-70
Springfield Model 1898 Krag .30-40
Springfield Model 1898 Krag Carbine .30-40
Remington Model 1917 .30-06
Springfield Model 1903 .30-06
Remington Model 1903-A3 .30-06
Springfield M1 Garand .30-06
National Postal Meter M1 .30 Carbine



This next batch of photos shows some that I have sold and a few that I still own......again, regrets for selling some of this stuff are still with me!

There are many out there who don't even know about the H&R Reising or Johnson Rifles.....I was one of those until I owned them!.

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Tom Graham SWCA #2303

Thanks for posting. This was my first collecting interest, back to the Krag and Colt D.A. .38 revolvers. Anything earlier was too expensive (Colt SAA) or not interesting enough for me (Trapdoor Springfields and muzzleloaders).

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

This is mine- ( for now, until it's someone else's!)
Shipped in 1963 to Robbins AFB-
Seemingly Unfired-- only complete package example known to exist, with all "military" packaging ( canvas bag, special "foil" type paper, etc) The box is also serialized. When you see one of these in a two piece box, it will never be numbered unless it also has that top yellow label that no one has ever seen.... people shove them into a smith box and say "original box"-
Roy lettered this over a decade ago- mentioned it was the first, and only, that he had seen outside of Smith and Wesson. ( meaning with all the original packaging)

I also Have the correct scarce Air Police Badge in mint ( 95%) condition with it, as well as an unopened, still sealed in "military" canvas bag proper Holster Rig,(and probably dump pouches) AND a pair of Franzite plastic grips that were used on the USAF "Elite Guard" guns.
Belonged to a Full Bird.
url=https://postimages.org/][/url]

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Just one at the moment.



Used to own this Remington-Rand.

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Psalm 27:2

My two retired military guns bear only a passing resemblance to their appearance while on active duty.

Sort of like me.

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Mark Lathem

Over the years I owned and sold/traded two different CMP Garands, two Eddystone M1917’s and a CMP Mossberg M44. Still have a CMP Remington M1903A3.

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BCCI Life Member #2068

Handguns: replicas of most early military revolvers, original 1873 SAA, several 90s Colt Army/Navy revolvers, turn-of-the century Colt and S&W, Colt M1911, one Colt and two S&W M1917s, Colt Army Special, S&W Victory Model, S&W M15, S&W (4)39, Beretta M9, Sig M17. Missing a Schofield and a Sig M11. Also have a Ruger Speed-Six in same configuration as Naval Investigative Service revolvers listed on-line. Also have a Sig P226 in the configuration the Seals used.

Rifles: one Civil War replica, three M1873 variations, couple of Krags, half-a-safe-full of Springfield 03s and 03A3s, several M1917 Enfields, one M-1, one M-1 Carbine, one M1A in as-issued M-14 configuration, several M-16 clone AR-15s.

Over many years I have owned way too many to have an accurate count. I think my first was a "sporterized" 7.7 Jap as they used to be called, bought with paper route money when I was thirteen years old from a basement gun trader who lived in my neighborhood. At one time I had eighteen 8mm 98 Mausers but have sold a few since then. M1 Garands, Mosins, Lee Enfields, 1917 Eddystone, 30 carbines, Spanish 7mm Mausers, Carcanos and other assorted junk. Also 1903 Springfields and 1903A3s. Still have four decent 7.7 original condition Arisakas. Love old milsurps. Almost forgot my revolvers and a Remington Rand 1911A1. Victory model and 1917 S&W and Colt. I'm sure I have forgotten some. can't have too many Whoops, a senior moment. I overlooked the part where this thread was about UNITED STATES military weapons. So disregard my rambling about foreign milsurps

I stick to the less likely encountered (sorry no pics).

1903 Citadel (Egypt) 303 Martini.
1884 Spanish Rolling Block in 43 Reformado
South American? pre-WWI, Champlin (hammerless Hi Wall) 7x57
Siamese Mauser 8x52 (painted stock for place guards) complete with dust guard!
Italian Carcano 6.5x51 (the type that killed Kennedy!)
Spanish (Toledo) 98 Mauser 8x57
Mossin-Naget (Russian) 1930 carbine (1938 production)
Hungarian-Mannlicher 8x56 Rifle

Numerous Enfield and Webley handguns.

Unusual US weapon
Remington Rolling Block USN carbine 50-50

Ivan

Here's one of mine. A Colt Artillery, Mfg. in 1876.

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Living a dream - S&WCA #2364

Whats the serial number on your Spruce gun? I have two of them.

Best,
RM Vivas

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RM Vivas
SWCA#1482L, SWHF#837

Got a Garand, M1917, and an 03A3. I'd love to know why somebody felt it necessary to carve these numbers on the 03A3. Last four of their SSN, rack number, or something else? Oh well, it came at the right price.

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Release the Kraken

Hmm, let me think.

Rifles: Krag, 1903, 1917, Garand, Carbine.

Pistols: 1911A1 with another one coming, Detective Special that letters to the OSS, six inch Official Police that went to Iowa Ordnance Depot, Victory Model tho I think that's more likely a DSC gun, a couple maybes I need to get lettered.

I still have the all original 1943 Ithaca 1911A1 I got from you a few years ago. And recently picked up a 1918 Remington UMC 1911, with only 21767 built there’s not a lot left. And also 2 all original Springfield M1 Garands and a Springfield 1945 mix master Garand. And also a 1918 German Luger with a matching numbers and holster.

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Get off my lawn!

I'm way behind in keeping my photo's up to date, so here is the current in-house list:

Colt M1911 (made 1918)
Colt M1917
S&W M1917
S&W 38 HE Model of 1902 Navy
Springfield M1 Garand (WW2)
Springfield M1903 (Barrel date 1920's)
Springfield M1898 Krag
Springfield M1888 Trapdoor
Springfield M1884 Trapdoor
Winchester M1917
Waters M1816 US Musket (made 1833 and converted to percussion for Civil War)

(The last one is technically not Milsurp but was only sold to officers going to the frontier in the 1870's and 80's.)
A Model 1875 Officers Model Trapdoor. (Original. not one of the replicas)

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

Thats a heckuva nice list, deadin!!!!

Bert Hartman of the Winchester Collectors Association keeps a log of "Spruce Gun" survivors.......do you know if yours are on his list??

Mine is wearing S/N 837724

I have owned one other Spruce Gun, but sold it because it had been drilled/tapped for a receiver sight......and this one I currenly had came along.

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Tom Graham SWCA #2303

I have a list of, I dont recall exactly, perhaps a couple hundred Spruce guns.

Back in the day Frank Mallory and I were writing back and forth on them. He'd managed to compile a list of observed specimens. I have a file around here someplace with our correspondence, the list and a picture of one of the guns in the hands of a Doughboy looking fellow who was wearing the collar device for the Loyal Legion of Loggers & Lumbermen.

Best,
RM Vivas

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RM Vivas
SWCA#1482L, SWHF#837

Here some photos of my Spruce Gun along with some photos of the Spruce Soldiers. I have a couple books that are about these soldiers as well.

In the one photo you can see the US and flaming bomb on the receiver

There are quite a few fakes out there, but I believe of the 1800 or so that were shipped to these fellas, about 210 or so have surfaced so far.

To my knowledge, the current keepers of the Spruce Gun list are Bert Hartman and Rick Hill of the WACA

I am not heavily involved on WACA so not sure if they have the same info or it was passed along to them??





















I have a large number of these LLLL (Loyal Legion of Loggers and Lumbermen) pins around.....

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Tom Graham SWCA #2303

Here are a few photos of my 2nd Model U.S. Schofield that was shipped October 12, 1876......just 4 months after Custer met his end on the Little Big Horn.

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Tom Graham SWCA #2303

I think when a oil finish from a black walnut stock is absorbed through the skin it is as addicting as crack cocaine.

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- Change it back -

Both of my 94's lack the US stamping and Ord logo, but have the JC '17 stamp which I see is absent on yours.

Different contracts/shipments?

I'll have to dig out the photos I have and put them here.

Best,
RM Vivas

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RM Vivas
SWCA#1482L, SWHF#837

I collected M1 Carbines. Had one of every manufacturer. The M1A1's were the real deals. Down to one now, my Uncle bought it for $20.00 in the 60's.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Thanks for posting Tom.

I only have one Winchester M1917 from back in the day when they could be ordered for 8.00 delivered.

The M97 trench gun is nice. I have a riot gun

As for Johnson Automatics, I worked for an electrical contractor in the 70's. Our shop was directly across the street from Johnson's old plant. I did a fair amount of work in that plant. You could go to the back of the building and kick around in the sand and find spent 06 shells from testing

I have two M1894 SRC .30WCF carbines.


Neither is stamped with a U.S. nor an Ordnance logo.


They are both stamped J.C. ’17 above the serial numbers. The two I have are #839404 and 836508.





I received a call from a friend of mine who had an antique store that someone had brought in an old 94 and when I went to look at it, it too was stamped J.C. ’17. We were unable to make a deal for it, but I was able to shoot images. I was gun #836529. Interestingly, it had a number stamped on top of the stock.






I did go through my files and came across several pages of correspondence between Carl Heinrich, Bruce Canfield, Franklin Mallory and a couple other fellows trying to pin down to origin of the Spruce carbines. Eventually they got it figured out!

Best,
RM Vivas

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RM Vivas
SWCA#1482L, SWHF#837

Those guns are all in the proper serial number range to be spruce Guns however, you really need to make sure that Bert Hartman at the Winchester collectors has those numbers and can give you positive verification. He’s the keeper of records currently on surviving Spruce Guns if you need his contact, let me know.

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Tom Graham SWCA #2303

I love the smell of old military guns in the morning...at the range. I have picked up a few here and there and shoot them all.
Colt SAA Cavalry from 1875
Colt SAA "Artillery" from 1882
S&W 1875 Schofield first model converted to "Express Gun"
Colt M1911 from 1918 (100% original, never "re-arsenaled")
1943 S.A. M1 Garand (original)
1945 S.A. M1 Garand (correct)
1945 S.A. M1 Garand (CMP refurb)
1955 HRA M1 Garand (original)
1956 IHC M1 Garand (original)
1942 S.A. M1 Garand (National Match)
1944 WRA M1 Garand (ceremonial rifle, nickel plated)
WRA M1 Garand (original) still looking for!

1939 Gas Trap M1 Garand.

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Robert,

Bert Hartman tells me that all of the J. C. '17 guns you have shown are already on his Spruce Gun survivor list....he was wondering if you might be kind enough to email me a copy of your list so he can compare notes???

Also, anyone interesting in the Winchester Spruce Guns or any Winchester might want to check out the WACA forum....and possibly become a member!!

Forum | Winchester CollectorWinchester Collector

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Tom Graham SWCA #2303

Would love to see them all, but these specifically!

This belongs to a friend.........

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

1943 M1903A4 Remington.

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Original configuration National Postal Meter M1 carbine. Very few carbines escaped post war upgrade/rebuild.

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I owned several M1 Carbines in the past but have only my National Postal Meter at the moment. And if memory is good it is in original condition.

I purchased this a while back from another SWCA member and he picked it up back in 1967 in New York for $65.00

He also purchased the 1911 WWI pistol that I purchased from him in the Seattle area back in 1964 for $45.00 and it is also in original condition.

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Tom Graham SWCA #2303

Your NPM has been through a post war rebuild/upgrade. It has the adjustable rear sight and bayonet lug. It probably also has a rotary safety. I can't tell for sure about the safety from your photo. It may also have a 4-rivet handguard.

Original carbines have a 2 position rear flip sight (like an M16A1 or SP1 Colt AR15), a 2 rivet handguard, a pushbutton safety and no bayonet lug.

Copy that, I wish I could get a few more at that $65 price!

Another friend told me that he remembers the Post Office would have surplus guns for sale and you could buy a 1911 or 1911A1 for about $25 each.

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Tom Graham SWCA #2303

The DCM and NRA had screamer deals after the war on some cool stuff. A guy could buy a minty-fresh 1903A3 for about 20 bucks in the 1950s. I have one of those that my father-in-law got back then. It is literally brand new.

I have a couple of US marked Remington 11s. One is a "Sportsman" aerial trainer with a Cutts compensator/choke. The other is a non numbers matching Remington 11 riot with factory 20in barrel.

There was a US marked Savage 720 that I missed in an LGS - I waited too long.

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Thread Killer.

I had the privilege of attending on the the CMP's Advanced Maintenance Courses for the M1 Garand last month. The course is taught by their custom shop gunsmiths, and you build up a Garand during the course.

This is a 1943 Springfield Armory receiver, with a mix of other parts and new barrel/stock set. So, limited collector value, but it was hitting the black at the 600 yard line down at the CMP Talladega range.

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Nice looking rifle. Still worth $1000+.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Nice stash of guns Tom, you certainly know which ones to buy. Good thread also.

AJ, your friend has a bunch of guns in that room. Larry

Thanks Larry, it's been an education for sure, I have bought a few "lemons" over the years before investing in good reference books and seeking advice from those who know their stuff!!

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Tom Graham SWCA #2303

I picked this one up locally just a few weeks ago, it's a legit 1943 Remington 1903-A3 with a nice bore. Would make a great shooter and it may be going up for sale....possibly on the forum, but most likely on an auction site.

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Tom Graham SWCA #2303

He is not that far from you. He and I have been dabbling in this for about 30 years. Lots of trips to CMP North Store and lots of gun show/gun stores & gun auctions.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Well, he's got some incredible stuff!

Yes, he does.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Just remember, $20 was a lot of money back in the '50s.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

For sure. 20 1955 dollars translates into ~230 2024 dollars.

On the other hand I don't think $230.00 will buy one of those today.

My drill rifle as a midshipman was a 8-43 Remington made '03A3. I later bought one, with the two groove barrel. It was very accurate. Unfortunately, it was sold years later.

I replaced it with a Smith-Corona a few years back.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Accumulated correspondence I have on the Spruce Guns:

www.vivasandson.com/spruce.pdf

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RM Vivas
SWCA#1482L, SWHF#837