Seen this? Just received from a friend of mine. https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/news...1c2c387b8&ei=9

__________________
USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

A base price of $1500, no thanks.

I predict that this will be a flop.

__________________
Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

I thought I’d seen biometric identification guns before but, as I recall, they were pretty buggy: have to be gripped precisely to match sensors, sweat or other substances on hand or gun interferes with sensors.

I don’t think they were ever offered commercially.

I suspect the technology has improved but I’d wait for others to serve as field testers.

There have been a few attempts at this that didn't work that well. Here's a link to the vidoe on the Forgotten Weapons YouTube channel for this one. I can understand the specific use cases for the thing, along with some pretty significant limitations.

Being who I am, I have preordered one for my collection for the sake of having one, but don't expect to have it sitting around on the kitchen counter or an end table, even if it works as advertised

He says he has thousands of orders. Maybe he does........but I submit that that market is limited and won't grow. ICBW BIDTS

__________________
Come and take it!!

I'm digging the cyberpunk/futuristic aesthetic of this thing. Much like how I liked the looks of the original Hudson H9. It reminds me of Judge Dredd.

__________________
AKA SixToEight

As I recall, one of the marketing targets of earlier efforts focused on LEOs. The idea was that the gun wouldn’t work in the hands of a bad guy who’d liberated it in a struggle with the officer.

One of the primary objectives of a manufacturer of a new product is to demonstrate the market for the new product. In this instance, obtaining some preproduction orders contingent on eventual production from law enforcement agencies would be a primary concern.


Under these circumstances, I’m not surprised that these guys would focus their marketing efforts on law enforcemen, not civilians. Government agencies have much more money than the civilian market and buy in large quantities compared with a civilian.

Remember, these marketers are also positioning their companies to attract investors.

It looks big and ugly. I hope they sell a ton to new gun owners.

__________________
Front sight and squeeze

I want Captain Kirk's Tazer.............

__________________
S&W Accumulator

You mean Phaser? This is my Grandson's. A movie prop.

Attached Images

Phaser.jpg (70.1 KB, 27 views)

__________________
USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

This thing has been kicking around for at least two years. There have been several articles written about it. IIRC during one write up, the gun malfunctioned twice during test firing.

Speculation of police sales may just be day dreams. I can't see any major Police Force willing to risk the liability issues if the gun fails at a critical moment.

My own opinion is never trust your life to anything that requires a battery.

I'm thinking it's a straight blowback.

The only battery driven device that I trust my life to is embedded in my chest.

Besides, every time I take a gun out of my safe I let it sniff the back of my hand so it knows who I am.

__________________
Music/Sports/Beer fan

Let the US Secret Service carry it for a few years protecting POTUS, then I might take a look at it. 'Til then, no thanks.

__________________
Let's be careful out there

This type of product is pure fiction, pure fiction.

The oprah winfrey book club in the early 1990s had a "period story" set in the 1840 slave trade set on a slave ship where the crew used specially made guns that required the crewman to be wearing a "special magnet ring" on the trigger finger to fire the gun..
it was mandatory reading for class, otherwise i wouldnt have read that garbage.

Most of the attempts made at real guns had limited success. the ones that required special radio tags on the user, via bracelet or a ring, to be touching on on the gun at all times to use..
the main ideal reason for that style was that the police could bring a truck mounted radio jammer system, and deactivate any gun in a 1mile area when they wanted to do a raid on your apartment building at 2 am for no knock warrants.

The biometric sensors i believe have never gotten over 70% reliablitly in tests. The sensors wear badly, dont read well. Battery charge change can screw with them just like your electronic powder scale that runs on a battery.
And a change in body weight or dehydration is enough to render your finger unable to be read. On some biometric sensors, rubbing acetone or Hoppes 9 solvent on your finger tip a half hour before scanning can render your finger print invisible to the sensor.
Had that problem at work, we use a time clock system that has us punch in on a 2,000$ module with a biometric sensor. i cant clean guns if i want to punch in for work, even washing my hands with orange clean before punching out is enough ti wipe prints out to it.

How do they expect the child, spouse, significant other of a smart gun owner to be able to learn how to shoot? Maybe that's part of the plan.

Not for me. Even if it worked perfectly, it wouldn't work for me because I don't have fingerprints. When I went to get my Texas License to Carry, no one could get a reading of my prints on multiple machines at two different facilities. The State of Texas, in its infinite wisdom, said to heck with the prints, and issued me a license anyway. Just another advantage of being a gun owner in Texas.

__________________
What, me worry?

I recall there is (at least) one state that has passed a law with some kind of mandate after biometric gun technology has been "proven" to work. Which of course is backdoor gun control at the micro level.

__________________
Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

As soon as I saw Skippy I couldn't take it seriously so I may have missed the description of something I wasn't going to buy. I'm curious if that 4WD cart in that other thread has a mount in there for this gun.

I’m in for a 3 and a half inch nickel Registered Mag.

__________________
Sure you did

I'd buy one of these.

A few thoughts.

1) I spent much of my adult life in the frozen north. I’ve had reason to fire both handguns and long guns with gloves one. Non starter with a finger print based biometric technology. “Hold it right there Mr. grizzly or Mr. assailant until I get my gloves off.”

Similarly, I’ve spent a lot of time in and around water, and wet wrinkled fingers don’t work with biometric finger print reading technology.

2) My iPhone does a really poor job of recognizing my face in low light conditions. This won’t be any better.

3) Sunglasses, hiking buff, mask, etc can or will all render facial recognition non functional.

4) I’ve had devices with batteries that showed adequate charge at temp and then failed as soon as they cold soaked in cold temps. I’ve also had batteries and electronic devices that just suddenly failed.

5) Electronic devices also have a mean time between failure. At best that’s also just an average, with a wide range of actual times between failures with half failing before the average, and some failing much sooner than the average.

Personally, I’d need to see an extremely high mean time between failure with a very narrow standard deviation before I would even consider trusting my life to an electronic device.

Then I’d still need full redundancy.

Given that you don’t have the luxury of time to draw a self defense handgun, discover it’s not working and then draw a back up, this would have to operationalize as two fully independent and redundant activation systems, each able to immediately authorize use of the handgun.

The voting logic would also have to such that if one said “yes” and the other said “no”, it would default to the system saying “yes”.

Similarly, if both systems failed a self test, it would need to default to “fire” rather than bricking the gun.


——


The threat here of course is that states and or the federal government will at some point decide that biometric firearm technology is sufficiently developed at a point far short of addressing all of the above issues, and will then mandate the use of that technology. That may happen in terms of either all new guns being manufactured, or as part of a ban of all firearms that do not have or are not retrofitted with similar technology.

It’s the kind of gun control that sounds good to people claiming their are not opposed to gun rights, but in fact are.

It also won’t work as with most computer/electronic security issues a hack for the security features will be developed about 6 months after the technology reaches mass production. It will just create a new black market for unlocked biometric firearms.

Only if it came with the outfit. Genuine street bling that outfit.

Id rather have the "city tank" though.

I’m in agreement with everyone on the battery powered electronic lock style gun. It seems overly complicated and my experience with overly complicated electronic devices is that they may work nearly flawlessly when new, as they age, more frequent failures arise. I like the idea of purely mechanical devices like a Simplex lock on a quick access safe over biometrics any day.

What was the name of the company with the magnetic trigger lock that was actuated with a ring on the users finger? Not an infallible mechanism, but something refined along those lines would be more desirable to me.

__________________
USS Brewton FF1086
SWCA#3597

Biometrics; it works so well with the Gun safes / lock boxes.

__________________
Sceva
OGCA SWCA NRA

WOnderful idea unless you happen to do welding.... or what happens when you cant find the ring?

Me too. And when Air Force One and The Beast (presidential limo) are all electric then I'll consider a EV. (Actually I won't buy one even then.)
Ed

It was/is called the Magna-Trigger. I tried one informally a few years back, it works but is fairly ring-position-dependent. Rumor had it also LEOs carrying one so equipped wore two rings just in case the gun had to be used by the weak hand.

__________________
Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

My experience with biometrics is that they couldn't make a smart paper towel dispenser for the men's rooms on the PA Turnpike.

Ever try the sensor operated only Kohly bathroom faucets and toilet flushers?

At work, thats what they switched to.. Toilets that flush on their own, every 30 seconds. Faucets that will NOT put water out.
Faucets that will NOT stop putting water out. Faucets that can take 5 minutes of rubbing on the sensor before they start to put water out. Faucets that somehow alter the flow of water every 10 seconds.

Its really really really a wonderful innovation. Sort of only loved by people who like standing in line at the DMV

There are many other reasons not mentioned why biometric firearms are impractical. For example, there is virtually no safety feature existing on any device that cannot be defeated by a clever person. My guess that within the course of a few days, someone would figure out a simple way to inactivate, bypass or fool the biorecognition system. And then the method will show up on a YouTube video and tell the world how it's done.