Back a couple weeks ago I posted about my first black rifle range toy which is a discontinued M16A1or2 clone and it is a fun gun, decent accuracy (minute of torso) at 100 yards with 55 grain ammo.

I've now completed a bunch of research and discussion with other folks and chased down some tips you folks brought up in comments and found out some more things I never knew, and I thought I'll just pass some info on in case anyone else is considering their "first" AR type rifle, especially if you might be looking for a Viet Nam clone...they can be tricky LEGALLY, even now with the "ban" expired in 2004.

So what I THOUGHT I had was a complete Stag Arms, Stag-15 Retro rifle that was discontinued some years ago, but what I really have is a PRIVATE BUILD,circa after 2015 but before 2019 using a Stag Arms lower and a Brownells 1-12 twist barrel installed into good quality upper parts.

I did have to disassemble the rifle over the last week, to confirm for myself, that all of the "pre-ban; post ban; original NATO parts that could be made a "machine gun" (BATFE definitions, not mine), were machined correctly to semi-auto form, thus "legal" by any definition now days. I felt this was necessary because my lower receiver is serialized, but by Stag Arms when they were in New Britian CT, and this was exactly 2014 when the BATF shut them down after finding non-serialized receivers and "machine guns" on their premise which forced the sale of the company to White Wolf Capital, who continued to make rifles in New Britian until 2019 when they moved to Cheyenne Wyoming and started whole new series of serial numbers and logo stamping. When Stag Arms customer service told me the records of my serial number were held by the BATF I thought I better check the parts to make sure they were not in M16 configuration.

The 5 parts that must NOT be M16 are: Trigger, Disconnector, Hammer, Selector, Bolt Carrier...so you must disassemble and compare your parts to known comparison photos of the original USGI M16 parts. I did this and found all parts to be AR 15, and NOT M16. I have attached a photo of my Bolt Carrier that shows the milled area (1" lg x 3/8" wide) that means it cannot trip a full auto sear. My Selector switch did NOT have the additional cutouts required for M16 select fire/full auto use.

The detachable carry handle with A2 flip sight (0.200" large and 0.070" small) apertures was made by Leapers and is very nice quality.

Like I said before, I'm happy with the rifle and now that I feel comfortable that it is legal according to today's standards (who knows what tomorrow may bring), I'm ready for the range as soon as weather cooperates, especially with the small aperture.

I do apologize in advance for this long winded post, but if my research and findings help anyone with their first "black rifle" M16 Clone (Viet Nam era) buy or build, then good. You experienced folks probably know all of this stuff too and if so...sorry you had to wade through it.

Attached Images

	AR 15 left side.jpg (26.6 KB, 69 views)
	AR 15 right side.jpg (24.6 KB, 50 views)
	AR-15 bbl marks.jpg (24.0 KB, 45 views)
	bolt carrier 1.jpg (19.9 KB, 49 views)
	bolt carrier 2.jpg (16.2 KB, 48 views)

__________________
Charlie B
SWCA#3083, SWHF#570

And don't forget that just having the holes in the receiver for the dreaded "third pin" makes it a machinegun.

Better safe than sorry comes to mind. Let us know how it shoots.

__________________
Sure you did

Your AR15 is actually an "A4" configuration with the exception of the barrel, fs/gas block and slip ring which are not.
Can't tell from the pics if your flash suppressor is the A2/A4 blanked out on the bottom or an A1 full birdcage.

I have one that looks similar. Mine is all PSA upper and lower with a PSA premium nickel-boron BCG and a BCM PNT fire control group. It's a fun rifle.

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	AR15A4.1.jpg (88.6 KB, 25 views)
	AR15A4.2.jpg (139.8 KB, 23 views)
	AR15A4.3.jpg (60.9 KB, 19 views)

I own one i really love, Have fun!!

A good image of full auto vs semi auto bcgs.

Full-Auto Bolt Carrier vs. Semi-Auto - SpiceTac | AR-15 Parts

colt also used to make a "sporter " semi auto bolt, that had the tail milled out and additional milling around the firing pin. The firing pin milling was supposed to catch a special semi auto only hammer and prevent ignition if the hammer followed the bolt home.

Link to Bolt: Specialized Armament

Link to Hammer: Specialized Armament

I still have my first AR...and believe it or not it's the only one I own. I'm more of a handgun and shotgun shooter, and obviously I'm not a big AR guy. I bought my used Olympic Arms PCR-00 A2 Carbine (manuf. Feb. 2000) in 2004 during the Clinton Ban. At the time, ARs of any kind were scarce and I found this one at a local gun show. I traded a Glock 23 and a few bucks and took this home. I almost immediately added a retractable 6-position stock...and later added a tactical charging handle, handguard rails, picatinny rail and RDO, new pistol grip, and a vertical grip. It's been a dependable and accurate shooter and I've never had any issues with the Oly. However, it's probably time that I change out the barrel and flash hider...they're still from the Ban era.

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	IMG_3239.jpg (84.5 KB, 10 views)
	IMG_3237.jpg (90.6 KB, 9 views)
	IMG_3238.jpg (109.3 KB, 10 views)

I also still have my first AR, a Colt A3 carbine I purchased for duty use back in the late '90s. It's done many thousands of miles on patrol, and put many thousands of rounds downrange. It got SBR'd back in the early 'aughts', and has been through a number of configurations over the years as equipment and tactics evolved. It has always been a faithful companion and its mere presence calmed down a number of sticky situations over the years.

C. 2006ish



Today

While am understanding of being careful, the ban has been over for quite awhile and pretty sure fa bolt carriers are legal. Am fond of the A2's , mainly because am appreciative of the solid/adjustable sighting arrangement. While some may not think a chrome plated bore is necessary, mine do not need specifically copper cleaned much , if at all.

Nice rifle!

Thanks for all of the additional comments and replies. I am way to "new" to AR rifles, especially to the "clones" of M16 Military weapons to qualify as a knowledgeable person. I posted basically on my research and findings in order to help anyone, like me, contemplating a first buy/build of one of these rifles.

Mine was found in a pawn shop, and I have no reason to think the clerk that sold it to me knows anything about it. Yes, the store does have an FFL, but where did they get it, has it been verified by some method as fully legal according to Feds and local?? I didn't know and I was not allowed to dismantle in the store, and would not have known what to look for anyway.

My questions arose when I tried to get a manufacture date, or a ship date from the manufacturer, Stag Arms. Being a collector for years this "dating" process has been so easy with S&W, Colt, Ithaca, Browning and all of the mil-surps I've had over the years, but it was an instant brick wall when I called Stag Arms in Wyoming and they told me they couldn't help because all records on my New Britian CT serial number were held by the BATFE!

Research from that point showed that in 2014 (10 years after the Clinton ban expired), Stag Arms was found to have un-serialized lower receivers, and "machine guns" laying around. Serious enough that BATF shut them down and forced the company to be sold. White Wolf Capital continued manufacture in CT until 2019 when they moved everything to Wyoming.

This is when I got a little worried in that I have enjoyed a FFL 03 (C&R) for many years and do not want ANY trouble with the Feds, certainly not over a pawn shop rifle, so I started searching for what the trouble was with Stag Arms CT and found that the 5 No-No M16 parts were a major part of the problem with the former owners.

I had to be sure! This led to dismantling, and since all "Owners Manuals" for Stag Arms did NOT show my version (the Stag -15 Retro) I still couldn't be sure of what these parts really looked like in the flesh so I got hold of a 1970 Army FM (Field Manual) for the M16 Rifle and it showed in detail how to properly disassemble, maintain and of course how to zero for 250 meters on 25 meter targets.

Anyway I also joined the AR-15 Forum and got the same nice help I've come to love here on the S&W CA Forum. One example is that mine has a slip ring, not a Delta Ring, and the Army FM 1970 also shows and describes the spring loaded slip ring, the Delta Ring modern tool does make it easier, but the GI Method of using a cartridge works too.

Unfortunately, there are a zillion (maybe a little less) posts all over the infamous I-Net with stories about gun shows and sellers/buyers getting in trouble because of a rifle that contained one of the No-No parts, and these posts are up to date. I saw one from February 2024 where the BATF got a guy because he had a Bolt Carrier that had the long key section (like mine) but was NOT milled on the bottom lug (like mine is) so actually could trip and auto sear even though no other parts, were found.

So yea....I agree...the ban has been expired for a long time, but the BATF evidently can apply whatever definition they choose maybe even varying from state to state or region to region, I don't know if these posts are even true but like said..I don't need the grief over a pawn shop rifle that I wasn't really that interested in. I do like shooting the rifle and it is fun, but when turned over to my son, I just have to know it is legal to today's standards, including 30 round mags, still legal in Virginia.

Again....thanks for all comments and replies, and also..the "third hole" machine gun definition. doesn't exist on my lower, but sure was another complete and lengthy search to find out where the third holes was even supposed to be and the findings are that even a "dimple" (center punch type) in the right spot, or engraving, or even a welded rod...still equals machine gun to the BATF.

Sorry again for the long winded post but if I had known most of this stuff I probably would have passed on this buy at a out-of-the-way pawnshop.

Attached Images

	bolt carrier 1.jpg (19.9 KB, 10 views)
	bolt carrier 2.jpg (16.2 KB, 6 views)
	lower receiver pins 1.jpg (54.7 KB, 10 views)
	lower receiver pins 2.jpg (49.4 KB, 9 views)
	AR-15 VS M16 parts.jpg (39.7 KB, 10 views)

__________________
Charlie B
SWCA#3083, SWHF#570

Again, always good to be careful. This was copied was gotten from AR-15.com.

Quoted:
U.S. Department of Justice

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco
Firearms and Explosives
[stamp] FEB 10 2005

903050:RV
3311/2005-167
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives |

[stamp] Received FEB 14 2005
Legal Department

Mr. Carlton S. Chen
Colt Defense LLC
547 New Park Avenue
West Hartford, CT 06110

Dear Mr. Chen:

This is in reference to your most recent facsimile transmitted to the Firearms Technology Branch (FTB), Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), on January 13, 2005. In your faxed letter, you seek clarification regarding the use of M16 machinegun bolt carriers inAR-15 type weapons.

As you are aware, since your provision of copies of relevant materialin your previous faxes, ATF has previously addressed the use of M16machinegun fire-control components in AR-15 type rifles in the General Information section of the Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide(ATF P 5300.4). (Please refer to page 115, item #3, “Important Information Concerning AR-15 Type Rifles.”)

However, we would like to direct your attention to a particular paragraph of item #3, which states the following:

In order to avoid violations of the NFA, M16 hammers, triggers,disconnectors, selectors and bolt carriers must not be used in assembly of AR-15 type semiautomatic rifles, unless the M16 parts have been modified to AR-15 Model SP1 configuration. Any AR-15 type rifles which have been assembled with M16 internal components should have thoseparts removed and replaced with AR-15 Model SP1 type parts which are available commercially. The M16 components also may be modified toAR-15 Model SP1 configuration.

Accordingly, based on previous FTB recommendations not to install this bolt carrier and the conclusions presented in the passage cited above,our Branch cannot specifically authorize you to install an M16 bolt carrier into an AR15 rifle. Also, we cannot definitively tell you that installing an M16 bolt carrier in an AR 15 will make that firearm fire automatically.

-2-

Mr. Carlton S. Chen


We can only inform you that if this installation were to create a firearm that fires automatically, it would be a machinegun as defined;conversely, if it did not result in the production of a weapon that shoots automatically, it would be lawful to posses and make.

We thank you for your inquiry and trust the foregoing has been responsive.

Sincerely yours,

[signed]

Sterling Nixon
Chief, Firearms Technology Branch

The BCG you posted a picture of is a full auto BCG. If you follow the link I posted above you'll see how far back a "Semi Auto Only" bolt gets milled or in the case of the Colt Bolt I linked to, they completely removed all the metal.

If you look at the majority of ARs being sold, they have the full auto bolts in them. It's not a problem. I would be interested in the specifics of the case you referenced, to figure out if the BCG was the actual issue, or if there was more to the story. Or if they actually prosecuted, it's entirely possible that they didn't. Take a look at BCM's website, they are a well know AR manufacturer with at least 1 GOV and LE contract. They clearly market their BCG as AUTO BCGs and offer them for public sale. You can also go to STAGs website and compare the bolts they have for sale with the BCM auto ones and they are visually identical.

I understand why you are concerned, and you aren't wrong for trying to do your homework. I used to work for an FFL and the ATF boogey man was always on my mind.

What I recommend is to load that thing up with some 55 grain FMJ and go have fun shooting it.

Typical ATF, clear as mud. The bottom part where it says

"We can only inform you that if this installation were to create a firearm that fires automatically, it would be a machinegun as defined;conversely, if it did not result in the production of a weapon that shoots automatically, it would be lawful to posses and make."

Basically, it means if you put it in there and it makes the gun full auto we'll arrest you, but if it doesn't you are good. Unfortunately, wording like this is why the OP is concerned.

And don't forget that the ATF has a habit of changing it's opinions with some regularity. What they say is legal one day may not be the next...

You are very right.

The reason the BATFE would have all the serial number records is that Stag Arms shut down their old FFL, so they had to turn over all of their bound books would have had to be turned over the the BATFE, as is normal when a FFL closes down.

If you look for the acquisition announcement, it includes language that the new owners acquired a new FFL to operate Stag under.