Does anybody know for sure when the first M1903A3 rifles were actually issued to the troops? I was watching The Pacific the other night, and it just didn't seem right to me that the episode about the first fighting on Guadalcanal showed the Marine infantrymen with M1903A3 rifles rather than original M1903s.

The first firearms company to began manufacturing Model 1903A3 rifles was in 1942. 1943 was likely when the issuing began

Many 1903A3 rifles never left the US mainland...used for training...MP duty...guarding POWs brought here. While many did see combat...many for grenade launching duty...MP and POW guarding plus provided for arming allies as well.

Correct, it is well documented the Marines on Guadalcanal were issued Springfields. Using 03-A3s in a movie production may have been for convenience of the prop masters.

Nowhere near enough M1s at that phase of WW II.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

The Marines didn't re-equip with Garands until after their service on Guadalcanal was over. The only Garands they used their were "midnight requisition" from Army units that showed up to augment or relieve the Marines.

Back in the '80s I had a Rock Island made 1903 with a bad barrel. I sold it to a guy who had a NOS Rock Island barrel and whose father served on Guadalcanal in the Marines and carried a Rock island rifle. It pleased me greatly to see the rifle go for such a family purpose.

Here are some Marine Raiders.
Guy in front has a Springfield.
Looks like a Tangent Sight.
Tall Guy, middle, second from Left.
That either Gordon Warner or some Raider who looks a lot like him.
As I have posted, I met Gordon in Okinawa.

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Haven't seen the HBO series The Pacific in years, it was really good and been long enough it's time to watch it again,
That being said I seem to recall thinking that the first episodes had those WWII Marine actors with alot of 1917 Eddystone rifles.

Like I said it's been years so my memory may be way off.

No 1917 rifles in the series The Pacific. Lots of everything else, though. 03A3s, Garands, carbines, Thompsons, at least one M3, and a host of heavier weapons.

In cartoonist Bill Mauldin's great book "The Brass Ring" he talks about qualifying with a Springfield and learning the hard way not to put his thumb over the top of the pistol grip. He said guys who had only trained with the Garand would put the thumb over due to the lighter recoil, and it would mark them as a newbie.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

So what happens with 1903s in straight stocks? My 03A3 came that way.

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Release the Kraken

Can you explain the 'not putting your thumb over the top of the pistol grip' thing? I have fired both the Garand and three models of the Springfield and always had my thumb over the top of the pistol grip. All your fingers but your trigger finger firmly around the pistol grip/wrist of the stock is the way I was taught on both rifles - and the M-14 for that matter.

Yeah, I have the same question?...I have owned numerous 1903's including a National Match and an 03A4 without its scope. I don't understand what thumb placement would have any bearing on shooting a 1903 versus any Mauser or any bolt action for that matter?

Of course, we know all know about the garand thumb.

I am curious what the problem is with having your thumb over the top is as well? I have a sporterized 1903 and that’s how I shoot it and I’ve never had a problem…

Pardon my bluntness, Never, I repeat Never base anything ones sees in tv or movies as factual, most is all hollywood BS made up by ignorant, lazy individuals that really just don’t care. Lots of online so called information is the same. Buy good books.

Thumb over the wrist of the stock COULD (on recoil) pop the shooter in the eyeball. No gaurantee, but it could happen, depending on the thumb’s position. See the rifle training part of the Gary Cooper movie Sgt York. Or think it over: recoil, gun heads back ( per: Isaac Newton), thumb goes back with it, hits something (eyeball) in its way.

Depends on L.O.P. and personal shooting style, but my '03 gripped with my thumb over there wrist of the stock will punch me in the nose about every time.

IIRC (?) the Marines kept their low number Model 1903s and used then until the Garands M1s were issued.

Very few people who watched The Pacific knew much of anything about US weapons. Of course, we noticed it, but it was a great show. I would think original 03s are pretty scarce these days.

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No baby we aint

Over the years I had 03s dated from 1907-early 20s, maybe 15 at one time. Have several OOP reference books and used to shoot a 1918 RIA until arthritis got the best of me. IIRC one of the first ones bought cost $100 or less. Had 3 1903A-4s and sort of wish had kept one just for the heck of it. Sold my 1918 03 and my almost new 1917 last year as just could not shoot them any more. Prices I see at shows these days are $1K-5-6k for A-4s.

From the late '70s I was heavy into 1903 rifles of pretty much all variations. I had several dozen at one time...now down to about four or five.

I owned 1903 number 694 for years...had a 1903 drilled and tapped for the Warney-Swasey prismatic sight and equipped with a 25-round magazine...very rare. I ended up selling it to someone that had the Warner-Swasey scope so he could make a complete package out of it. I had two different '03A4 rifles...an additional one without the scope I found at a pawn shop for dirt cheap money...since it was marked '03A3 they priced it as such and I negotiated for an even better deal. I also owned one of the very few 1903 rifles in .45 ACP Hatcher had fabricated in the early 1920s.

I'm down now to an original and all Rock island '03...even with a Rock Island bayonet...an original '03A1 from 1929 and several '03A3s. I consider the Smith-Corona '03A3 as a better rifle than the Remington made version...but they're each excellent...and the '03A3 sights are a far better battle sight than the '03 has which is really nothing more than a target sight.

The 1903 rifle is an outstanding firearm...and there are more versions and variations than most are aware of. The history of them is fascinating.

At one time I had access to some old Navy training manuals from the 20's or 30's. They showed having the right thumb parallel to the bore and not over the stock wrist.

I have fired a lot of rifles over the years with my thumb over the wrist without getting hit in the nose. It happened one single time with a Sako factory sporter in .338 Winchester mag. Sharp brutal recoil, ouch. One shot was all it took for that gun, never again.

Marines , Pacific, WWII.
Don’t forget those Reising’s, Johnson’s, and Boys Rifles.
Here’s a Boys Rifle on display at NRA Whittington.

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All I can contribute is my Dad joined the AAC in 1942, and he said they used 03A3s in boot camp.

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Wayne
Torn & Frayed

In case my OP will be perceived as criticism of The Pacific, I'll say I very much enjoyed it, and that I think its portrayal of weapons was great. I liked the fact all the M-1 carbines had the simple flip rear sights, and the transition to M-1s and air-cooled .30 MGs seemed just right. I really liked seeing one Marine firing a Winchester 97 in the Guadalcanal night firefight. I do think the Springfields on Guadalcanal would have been M1903s, not A3s. I can't, however, agree with the idea of firing a rifle with your firing hand thumb on the same side of the stock wrist as your trigger finger. I have never seen or even heard of anyone doing that before, and I've had plenty of practice and have shot with and BS'd with WWI, WW2, and Korean veterans who have experience all the way back to Trapdoors and Krags.

The fact that the producers of the Pacific used '03A3's in the Guadalcanal scenes was a big topic of discussion when the mini-series first came out. Obviously an oversight of the otherwise excellent historical support crew, because most of the firearms were dummy rifles made from rosin anyway. They only needed a half dozen or so working models and it would have been easy enough to round up that many 03's.

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Live long and prosper

Watch the movie "Sargent York". In basic, his NYC buddy was right handed and had his right thumb pointed straight up, not wrapped over the neck of the stock. As a result, the recoil caused him to poke his right thumb into his right eye.

In mid sixtys I read a book guadalcanal Diary by Richard Tregaskis. He described how the first Marines to storm ashore were ordered to not load their weapons to avert accidental shootings. they were not opposed at that landing. In 90's I was friended by a man who flew the back seat on dive bombers around New Guinea. He stated how on land the Marines preferred the Springfields to 30 carbines which they threw in the trash bins.

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"Don't Give Up the Ship"

My uncle who landed on Omaha Beach in the first wave told me he tossed his M1 Carbine early on. He said "I hit that ******** three times and I bet he's still running!" He said he found an '03...dumped the Carbine and used it until he was severely wounded outside of St. Lo and taken out of combat.