Any one else own one of these beautiful pistols. Detonics Combat Master .45acp. Made from 1977 to 1987. Very high quality pieces. Blued version dates from 1979, and Stainless version from 1981

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John

Me! Me! Detonics Combat Master Mk VII in 9mm.

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SWCA #3713

Are these actually reliable? I owned an early Colt Officer's Model and it was the single worst and most unreliable pistol I have ever owned. It forever soured me on the 1911 and I will never own another one. Did Detonics figure out how to get it right?

I'm interested in this, as well.
Those are well-made pistols, but my experience with 1911s is 4" bbl and up.
Someone musta figgered something out, because the market now is polluted with 3" 1911s.

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Because of the metric system?

I’ve never owned one, but I kind of became a fan of them by proxy. Back in the ‘80s I read “The Survivalist” series by Jerry Ahern. It was the preferred pistol of John Rourke, the protagonist. Ever since then, I’ve wanted one, but never came across one other than on gunbroke. If I found one at a gun show, I’m sure I’d buy it.

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USS Brewton FF1086
SWCA#3597

Detonics, unfortunately could not keep up with demand (mainly from large law enforcement ), so in 1987 the Seattle and Bellvue factories closed. Voila; you have the Colt Defender.

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John

I'd like another, but prices have gone through the roof.

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John

I remember studying up on them for a few days back about 20 years ago. An interesting pistol.

They're alot heavier than a Defender!
I was surprised at the weight when I handled one. Seemed to be a quality piece, though. Funny rear sight.

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Because of the metric system?

I happen to have a springfield micro compact 3' bbl.45 cal .Cant makew it jameats every thing from ball to flying ashtrays.It absolutely amazed me
when i got it second hand.I have had it for 12 years without a problem ,wish they still made it Liked it so much I put a set of ivories on it.I think the problems with the 3"bbl 1911 brought sbout the captive dual recoil cprings.I also have Fusion Bantam with a 3"bbl.

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age is just a number

"We were selling every gun we made, so we had to go bankrupt."

More likely Detonics folded on account of the usual suspects: mismanagement; loss of key personnel and/or skilled workers; high debt accumulated; changing market demand; raw materials issues (inconsistency of supply and/or price); end product priced beyond demand.

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Retired LE Instructor/Armorer

I picked one up somewhere years ago, wanted to add to my "Miami Vice" series of firearms when that was a "thing". Still have a couple of 645's, 4506's, the Detonics, an S&W snubbie, but no Bren Ten <grin>. Sad to say I've never sent a round down the tube of the Detonics, but plan to do so someday, and already have a "service pack" of Wolff gunsprings awaiting it prior to range time.

Do you love yours?

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NICK-SWCA-NRA BENEFACTOR LIFE

So I only have experience actually shooting just one of them. It was a seizure gun used during a robbery and we converted it over for issue as a backup gun. I had it issued to me when I was doing a good bit of plainclothes work and carried it cross draw when seated in a vehicle on surveillance. It was comforting having such a large caliber yet small gun holstered but could be hands on, as miscreants walked up to, around and along side the vehicle you are seated in for long periods at a time. The holster was an Andrews Carjacker model, appropriately named.

As for shooting it - it's a handful! The weight helps and mine was very reliable with ball or Federal HST duty ammo at normal get off me distances. I used a Wilson Officers size magazine, instead of the normal Detonics magazine, simply because the gun didn't come with one. Never had a malfunction, although I'd say I only put a few hundred rounds through it in those years, not thousands like I would a normal duty gun.

I’ve had three. The first one was about 1983, great gun. I sold it to buy something else. The second one was about 1986. Accurate, but I had the top right rear corner of the slide fall off while shooting it. Detonics replaced the slide quickly. I carried it in an ankle holster and have the knee surgeries to prove it. Again as a young cop, I had to sell one thing to buy another, so it went away.

The third one was about 2003 and it was an older blued model. By then I had much better choices for off duty/ back up carry (3913) so it sat in the safe. A non-LE buddy just had to have and kept throwing money at me.

They were old school cool, but there’s much better choices. They’re heavy, only have a magazine capacity of six and have quite a bit of felt recoil. They were basically a custom conversation (the first ones were milled down Colt slides), so any major part repair/replacement is going to be a major problem.

I have a Detonics Combat Master and a Colt New Agent. The Detonics has a softer felt recoil to me.

The odd rear sight arrangement was to facilitate thumb cocking. I don’t have a Detonics (not from lack of shopping vs budget) but I do have a Kimber Ultra Eclipse from the late 90s that scratches that itch for now.

A friend had this in 45ACP - always liked it. IMO makes a statement with no sights. Kinda like a custom V-Twin with no speedometer.

You're my hero. I always wondered how Sonny Crockett pulled that off...

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Because of the metric system?

Likely a combination of insufficient production capacity, management, and Colt introducing their Officer's ACP in 1985. Colt, with their mass production capability, was able to churn out plenty of copies of their re-imagined version of the Detonics Combat Master. Colt also had a huge network of dealers to showcase and sell their firearms.

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

What about the .451 Detonics? Anyone have any experience with that loading?

I was perusing the various State auctions and spotted this low serial number Detonics Combat Master for sale. It was surely a seizure, sticky, dirty, and the hammer was wrong. The hammer was so wrong that when my dealer racked the slide on receipt it bit him good. It came with one magazine, and thankfully it was an original factory (.45 A.C.P.) magazine. Numrich at the time had plenty of Triple K mags so I got several of those.




I found a factory hammer and replaced all the springs and got it running about 80%. I think I could get it to 100% with new mag springs and just some more shooting- I've only put 100 rounds through it altogether. I had it listed for sale but no takers (admittedly I priced it high because I know I will never see another).

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Apparently that was common. I saved this pic from a gun auction that shows the damage (this is not my gun):



This IS my gun, and it looks like it had the same damage and was repaired. It doesn't affect the operation, just a bit unsightly.

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Many years ago, one of my fellow officers bought a new stainless Detonics .45 Combat Master. He asked me to go to the range with him to try it out. I was prepared for it to be an inaccurate Jammamatic. Wrong!

There were no malfunctions, and accuracy out to 25 yards was surprisingly good. Years later, I knew two guys who had Colt Officer ACP .45s. Both with chronic malfunctioning issues, even with quality factory hardball. Go figure..

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NRA Life, COTEP 640

Defender is part light weight alloy. Detonics is solid steel.

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John

I think the Colt Officer's ACP's reliability issues stemmed from Colt clinging to the use of the removable barrel bushing. Detonics ditched the barrel bushing in favor of the reverse recoil spring plug and a barrel with a very large outside diameter at the muzzle end. I think the bushingless design allowed for the barrel to be at a better angle for reliable feeding when unlocked.

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

One of the things that prevented me from getting one back in the day was the reported poor reliability.

——

I had a similar experience with poor reliability in a Colt Officers model about 20 years ago and I came across one the ther day in a local gun shop. It was a long, long way from smooth when manually functioned. It has issues.

Kimber however did get it right with their Ultra carry. I carried one for nearly a decade and shot it at least once a week 50 rounds per session. Even conservatively reducing that to 40 weeks a year that’s 2K per year and 20K total.

After an initial break in of around 500 rounds it was incredibly reliable not just with FMJ but also 185 and 230 gr Golden sabers as well as 185 and 230 gr XTPs. It was also surprisingly accurate. I still own it but it’s semi retired as it’s alloy frame is likely getting close to the end off it’s fatigue life.

One observation I have made with commander and officer frame sized 1911s is there’s no room to mess around with them.

With a full lemgthn1911 there is plenty of slide over run so you’ve foot room for unnecessary items like shock buffers and you have a lot more latitude to install lighter or heavier recoil springs.

On a commander sized frame that slide over run decreases to around 1/4” and you have a lot less margin to play with before you start creating reliability issues.

On an officer sized frame you have no margin at all. Everything is very precisely engineered so don’t mess with it,

Recoil spring life is also critical and on my ultra carry it had an 800 round spring life, so basically 3 new recoil spring assemblies per year.

I also didn’t mess around with magazines but stayed with the stock Kimber mags. Feed lips on a 1911 magazine are an integral part of the design of the feed system and are also point shape dependent. Kimber uses a “hybrid” or “Colt commerical” feed lip design and it works well with most FMJ, round nose, and hollow points. Semi wad cutters can be problematic depending on length and point shape.




Other companies have also gotten it right. I carried an officer model sized Citadel in 9mm for a couple years and it was also extremely reliable. It’s probably the best bang for the buck in a 1911 I have ever encountered.

The Star BM isn’t exactly a 1911 or quite officer model sized but it’s a right sized 9mm 1911 esque pistol that has also proven to be very reliable.

I like the little blasters. They have a unique history in firearm development. Way ahead of their time.

MKVI
MKVII / Mag Na Ported

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I’ll have to work on a photo of my Kimber Ultra. It’s the all stainless Eclipse model. I’ve found it to be very reliable as well.

Remember reading that series......lots of cool guns and "stuff"!

I went the route of the "cool kids" in the mid 80s;a Colt 1911 CCO; officer model frame mated to a Commander slide. Long gone but came across a Sig C3 about 10 years ago; which is basically a factory CCO.

That was the appeal for me of a Kimber Custom shop Compact CDP II.

A commander (ish, 4” versus 4.25”) length slide on an officer model sized frame. It was 10 years old a few years ago when I bought it new old stock in a shop where the owner was retiring and liquidating many of his personal collection pistols.

When I choose to carry a 1911 in .45 ACP this is the one.

I guess I have to qualify it with an "I heard" that it was to reduce slide weight for proper functioning. I really don't know one way or the other. Carrying "locked & cocked" is correct for a 1911, but the lack of a grip safety - maybe hammer down on a live round was their preferred mode of carry?

I have a very early Combat Master and a later made stainless MkVI

Th MkI

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Carried it for years. I was working in a liquor store when a fellow tried to steal a bottle. We got into a fight (probably destroyed more than the bottle he was pinching) and he knocked me on my butt. The shirt came open at my waist, he saw the gun and split

This is not the MkVI. With a bit of help I made this up from Caspian parts. Stainless all around with a 3" barrel. Takes Detonics mags.

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Much as I like the Defender, Kimders and such I think they all miss the mark on grip height. If someone made an alloy frame with the Detonics height grip it would be a great carry gun.

No, not about slide weight at all. The guy that designed the gun didn't like cocked-&-locked, he liked hammer at the notch over a loaded chamber, so the idea was to bring the hammer to full cock during the draw. The space there is for your thumb.

It's a unique look whatever way you carry. It was recognizable in Miami Vice and Air Wolf TV shows.

A friend had a friend that was one of the guys who started Detonics. My buddy had an early one, and it was a pretty good shooter, reliable with hardball. Recoil wasn't bad, it kinda twisted in my hand firing it though. I think they were one of the first guns to have duplex recoil springs. I could be wrong.

There were rumors about why they shut down, nothing to share on this site though. Keep in mind it was the 80s.....

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Even older, even crankier....

A buddy of mine was a gunsmith at Detonics back in the day. He has plenty of tales to tell. It's interesting to hear inside stories from someone who was there. As to the slide profile, he confirmed it was indeed to facilitate thumb cocking.

A followup to the post above. At the club the other day, my buddy handed me a Combat Master to shoot. It's a work of art! I'm sure that back in his Detonics days, it got some special attention from him.

Two rounds of 230 gr FMJ was all I could withstand! It's a little gun, light weight and hurts like mad! It stung right up my forearm into my shoulder. No doubt, in a defensive situation one wouldn't notice. But, how do you practice with it? I'd never make it through a box of ammo in one session. Beautiful gun, and it hurts on both ends.

About the Officers size 1911s...I recently bought a Rock Island Compact G.I. model....it was the most jamming new gun I've ever owned. Perplexed, I finally changed out the extractor with an old stainless Colt extractor I had in my parts bin.....hasn't jammed since.

I bought the stainless version. Functioned perfectly and was very accurate for what it was....not a match pistol by any standard....but more than adequate for self defense. I traded it of for a Pre 64 M70 375 H&H. We were both happy with the deal. The gent I traded with then went out and bought another one as he liked the one I traded him very much. The second one was horrible. A lot of FTF, even with different magazines, and accuracy was 10" pie plate at 15 yds on a good day. This was towards the end of the production of these.

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Have Canon, Will Travel

Always wanted to try a Detonics, but never ran across one . It did inspire me towards short 45 acp 1911s. Then Colt introduced the Defender, Kimber the Ultra and SA the micro. Bought first versions of all three of them.

The Defender was very reliable, excepting the factory recoil plug disassembling itself. Replaced it back with an Ultra plug assembly. The frame rails wear wearing too rapidly for my taste and sold it.

The Kimber Ultra was very reliable and accurate, but wanted something with a ramped barrel. Replaced it with an Ultra II, which is very accurate and carried alot.

The SA micro should have taken the clues from the Defender and Ultra. Was kinda picky, but got it for practice (all steel) and used it till recoil plug holder (probably not right term) sheared off from slide. Eventually replaced slide barrel with longer version.

For my purposes have almost transitioned over to wide meplat coated bullet at standard velocities. Have gotten used to letting recoil "ride up", instead of trying to have absolute control.

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Well, after reading all the glowing reports above on these small
pieces of gun makers "art", I have to give my opinion, the one I
had was a piece of jamming SH**T! Even with hardball! I got rid
of that **** as fast as possible! Fast forward to 1999, the year I
got my concealed carry permit* There was a fellow in my class that had one, and he sure made the instructor MAD! He couldn't get through one magazine without a jam! The instructor finally told him that he was going to have to either use his, the instructors, or he was going to have to come back another day, he
was holding up the class! I bought a Para-ordinance 10-45, a doublestack 10 shot, with 3 inch barrel, and with hollow points, it
too was a jamming ****! If you shot hardball it would run like a Chevy small block! I quit carrying it, and now carry a full size 1911* I would not be concerned about the 10-45 with hardball, but sure wouldn't carry it with hollow point ammo! Just the opinion of a soon to be 79 year old senior citizen, who has been shooting and hunting with handguns all my life! No Detonic products for this old guy!

Back in the late 1980's I shot M1911's almost exclusively. I shot a Detonics that a guy had. Was not overly impressed with the gun or the accuracy of it over a standard M1911. He want to trade it to me for my M29-2 4". Told him he would have to add several hundred to the deal to get me to trade(read I didn't want it). He decided against it.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

They certainly were not meant to be match grade target pistols nor pistols that you would plink with all day long.

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

I've had a blued Mk. I for twenty-five years, and have put something over 5000 rounds through it.
As long as recoil and mag springs are kept reasonably fresh, 500-1000 rounds, mine has been very reliable.
It was my off-body "carry gun" for about twenty years, but was actually shot in IDPA competition, not really suited for the latter, but for "Back Up Gun" type shooting, it's great.

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I scratched that itch with a Para Ordinance LDA 3.25. All stainless steel, Double action, very accurate. 6 shot mag, my spare mag is a Wilson 8 round.

I also have a Para LDA 4.25. Alloy frame, double stack 12 round mags. Double action! Mine isn't as accurate as the 3.25, but better than most non-enhanced Government Models.

Both guns shoot ball, Fed HST and Win. STHP to sights at 25 yards.

Of the 7 guns I have in the 1911 family, the only one not in 45 is Commander in 38 Super. Great gun, great cartridge!

Ivan

I thought it kind of funny that my early Detonics has a Colt NM barrel that had been chopped and sleeved.

1985, I'm sent to a FBI firearms instructors school. Very cool, filled with .38 cal. revolvers. But for one guy from the smallest, safest city and he's sporting a .45 ACP. Yeah, it's a Detonics. As I recall it had some mods, but not quite a race gun.

Anyway this school is all about shooting and you do a bunch, counting by the case. The Detonics worked perfectly as did all the Smith revolvers.

Hey Lenny, are you out there?

Yes, the very earliest Detonics used a sleeved barrel. Before the sleeveless barrel was perfected.

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John

I am bummed that I did not see this thread sooner and that I am not currently residing in my Washington state home. Family matters. I have so much I could share. If I were, I could have taken photos of the nine Combat Masters that I currently own. In 2011 I got into shooting and collecting with my main focus at the time being in 45 ACP handguns. I became fascinated with the Combat Masters, at first because of the history of their production in the Seattle area. But even more so after I purchased my first one. It was one of the good ones. Explanation upcoming. It is blued, all carbon steel in the "C" serial number range. The frame to slide fit was good with no overhang in the back. This one came with a set of grips that I have never seen on any other Combat Master. The left grip panel looked like factory checkered wood, but the right grip panel is checkered but has a palm swell incorporated. It fit my hand so well and shot so well the obsession was off and running. Having a good magazine seems to be key with reliability. The factory ones as mentioned above marked Detonics .45 A.P.C worked the best for me. The magazines from Metalform are ok but the magazines from Triple K were not reliable. In my experience some of the earliest guns had the poorest fitment. Loose slide to frame fit and with the back of the slide hanging past the frame not flush with the frame. These were guns with four-digit serial numbers with no letter prefix. During my quests for Combat Masters all around Western Washington I got to meet 3 former Detonics employees. One was the head pistol smith, and the others were production guys. One of those fellows worked with a famed shooter and pistol smith named Richard Neimer who worked at both Detonics and Olympic Arms before his sudden passing. He relayed to me several stories about Detonics and its demise. Detonics are great guns when you find good ones. Look for the proper fitment. If you find a nice one for under $800 I would recommend buying it. The inflated prices that you see are because of one guy in Texas that bought up a bunch of them during the time I was acquiring mine, but that is another subject that would be much lengthier. The word from the guys in the know was the best of Detonics production were with guns serialized CR17xxx and above. As far as mine are concerned I have nickel, carbon steel, and stainless-steel models for sure. I may have a hard chromed model as well, but I never tried to identify that for sure. As mentioned by one of the other commentors not all roll marks were well done. I've only seen one MK IV that was clearly stamped, and the bluing did not really differ from the 3 blue ones I have so I have been a bit confused if mine are all MK I's or mixed. My serial numbers are prefixed in "I", "C", and "CR", they have all functioned well for me. I have six Seattle marked guns. One Bellevue marked gun and Two Pendergrass; GA produced Combat Masters. They may be the best of the lot. One is a two-tone model that I have shot numerous times with no issues. The other is LNIB stainless, I've only shot twice, flawlessly but I've leaned towards preserving that one because of its high condition.

Just saw this. I bought a C-prefix Seattle Mk VI back in the early 1990s to use as my ‘Bosnia gun’. I never wound up carrying it however. It’s a beautiful piece, with flawless functioning (I did have to replace a follower on a Triple K magazine to keep it from overriding the slide stop on the last round). It feeds and ejects with 100% reliability. I’ve run softball 200gr SWC loads, along with Speer 200gr ‘flying ashtray’ JHP, Speer 230gr Gold Dot, Hornady 175gr XTP JHP, Winchester 185gr Silvertip, Remington 230gr JHP, and of course plenty of GI hardball 230gr. I’ve put thousands of rounds through mine, although the stiff recoil means I usually only shoot 50-100 rounds at a time.

It’s a terrific gun, much more accurate than one might expect, heavier than it looks, and legitimately cool. There are many better choices for a defensive gun today, but in its day it was the ultimate backup gun.

I feel very fortunate to have mine. I haven’t shot it in far too long. Must fix that….

Mine was a stainless steel stinker! It wasn't as bad as my Colt Combat Commander was, that gun was total trash, but it was not reliable. It had issues even after having Detonics and 2 local guys look at it. It had to be run really wet and it had to be held with a death grip or it would limp wrist. My Beretta 92 was totally reliable, and I could barely hold onto it and it shot fine. The Detonics is the last 1911 gun I've owned, and that was about 45 years ago.