I value members opinions here and I'm not a member of any other forums so please allow me to ask a few questions regarding CZ manufactured Colt 1911s. I'm thinking about purchasing a Colt Gold Cup National Match in 9mm or 38 Super. How good is the quality of the new Colts? A gun store in my area has a National Match 9mm in stock or should I hold out for a 38 Super? I know there is a big price difference in factory ammo but I am able to hand load for either. Thanks for your replies.

Updated on post # 80.

Why not a 1911 in .45 ACP? My 80 series Gov model is my best shooter.

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I have two chambered in .45 acp. Just thinking about something new and different to me.

I own a couple of 1911s -- a Government Model in .45 ACP, and a Commander in 9 mm -- manufactured after the CZ takeover, and they're fine shootin' irons. Enjoy!

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Where Law Ends, Tyranny Begins

Why not both? get the 9 now and super later. I have 1911's in .45, 10mm, 9mm, 38super, and 38 special. All good shooting firearms.

I’ve just never warmed to a 9mm 1911. I’d def opt for a .38 Super.

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Some Might Say.

A super 38 is the same COL as a .45 ACP, hence very dependable. Some really accurate loads for it available. For years it ruled the roost at the Bianchi Cup. A 9mm can be made to run well and shoot well, just not as easily as the super 38. Super brass is a tad more expensive than 9mm. You might want to buy whichever one you can get the best deal on now. First thing after, go buy good mags. For 9mm Wilson Combat 10rd (most current edition), if you want 10 capacity. If you are ok with 9 rd, the Springfield Armory can be tuned to run excellently. For super 38, the most current Wilson Combat mags are best.

My PT 1911 is in 38 Super & I have a 9mm barrel .
I hand load for both & my 38 super will beat any 9mm with the same bullet with more MV & ME.
I now have just the 38 Super load in the pistol.
Leave the 9mm for the beat up Luger and other ones laying around...

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Only difference Fool/Mule-ears

My 9mm Competition Model is as accurate as I am. I think those were produced by the CZ clan.

I think the new Colt 1911s seem pretty well made. I wish I could run into a LW Commander.

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Because of the metric system?

I'd go with the 38 Super just because it was JMB's original cartridge for the automatic pistol (his 1897 prototype).

I too vote for .38Super & carry a pre-CZ Colt Commander LW in it. Very accurate, nice ballistics.

You didn't mention Govt or Commander model, so please allow me to suggest a Commander. LW frame if you're thinking of carrying it.

My .o2

I'm a 1911 guy from way back. I have a bunch of 'em.
I never could warm up to one in 9mm. Just ain't right. I bought one, tried it for a while and then converted it to .38 Super. No regrets.
If you want a SA 9mm, get a Hi-Power.

I keep hearing (reading) that the 1911 feeds best in 45 ACP and 38 Super ... and has problems with the 9mm Luger .
I would vote for the 38 Super ... since you reload , ammo not a problem . Starline carries new brass .

Fof a 9mm Luger ... I would get a Walther P38 or the Browning High Power... no feeding problems there !
Gary

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Certified Cajun
NRA Member

My vote is 38 super as well. I have 6 1911’s of various calibers and manufacturers and only one is Colt and is a pre-CZ. It’s a LW Commander 38 super and it’s a fine pistol.

I own several new Colt revolvers and they’re definitely improved over the older Colt models but that doesn’t necessarily apply to their 1911’s although I’d imagine they’re every bit as good. In comparing my LW Commander to the Springfields and Kimbers that I own, the Colt has much looser tolerances with the Kimbers being the tightest. Despite the loose tolerances, the Colt shoots about as accurate as my Kimber Eclipse 38 Super Target.

If I were ranking precise machining, not necessarily quality, of the 6 1911’s I’d rank Kimber at the top, Springfield close to Kimber and Colt at the bottom with none being bad. Two of my 1911’s are 45’s, 2 are 9mm and 2 38 Super. All have been 100% reliable from the first shot and all are very accurate and well made.

In looking at even the less expensive imported 1911’s, I’ve not seen one that didn’t appear to be well made and I don’t think I’d be afraid to buy any of them if I were looking. 1911’s have been around a long time and there’s no secret to making one plus they’re not complicated guns. Another think if you want a 9 and 38 Super, pickup the Super and buy a 9mm barrel to go with it. There may be a tiny bit of fitting and you’ll need new mags but then you have effectively 2 guns for little more than the price of one.

Pick yourself up a new Colt and enjoy it.

38 Super "if" you are hand-loader. The availability of factory ammo in the configuration you may want is spotty and expensive.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

The only reason not to go with the .38 Super, IMHO, would be the cost of ammo. Since you handload that’s not an issue. The 38 Super, properly loaded, will far outpace the 9mm in velocity, power and flatness of trajectory. Besides that, it’s just cool. A 9mm is so ho-hum. Also, I have one of the newer National Match Colts. Mine is a .45 but I’ve been very impressed with the quality and function has been flawless. Go with the 38 Super.

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Everybody could shoot

It took me far too many years of enjoying my firearms before I strayed into the world of other calibers in Gov't models. My loss.

I started with a full size Colt in 9mm and found I really, really enjoyed it, plus ammo is still "cheap" and readily available.

Then I picked up a .38Super matching my 9mm Colt and wondered why did I wait this long! Ammo is available, just be on the lookout and grab a box each time you walk by if you're not a reloader.

If the 9mm is available now, grab it and get going! Then add the .38super to the mix when it shows up. I've seen a few trickling through Sportsman's Warehouse recently.

As to the current Colt quality, they are just fine. Some are in fact, some of the best quality guns Colt has put out in the last 40 years. Sure, there's a lemon here and there but most I've seen are really nice. My next one, when they get around to making them, will be a lightweight Commander in 9mm. I've seen them pushing out a few Defender models in 9 and .45 recently, as well as the standard steel Commander in both...just waiting on the lightweight..

I'd go for the .38 Super for a full size 1911, as the 1911 was initially designed for .38 Super (actually, the precursor to the 1911, the M1900). 9mm is a bit short for the 1911 action, whereas the .38 Super and .45 ACP are the same OAL, or close enough. If you are going to reload and get the .38 Super, consider using Super Comp brass, as it is a true rimless case where the standard .38 Auto (Super) case is rimmed. In modern 1911's they all headspace on the case mouth anyway.

CZ may have actually saved Colt, excellent company as far as producing fine firearms that I'm aware of. Highly revered for decades in the race gun world too.
38 Super here too for me for something different, certainly more desirable in the future if you wanna sell it over the 9.

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Dave Ramsey Cultist

Me too! Plenty of Combat Commanders to be had. Saving 1/2" with no weight savings doesn't do it for me. Where are the LWs???

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Because of the metric system?

I'm most likely going to get looks like I'm a two headed goat, but what the hey. Get the .38 Super and use 9mm at the range for practice. WHAT?!? It works, just better in some guns than others. It's no different than shooting .38 Specials in your .357 Magnum. Yes, you will be headspacing on the extractor instead of the case mouth, and sometimes it will slip past and fall into the chamber and you will have to hold it muzzle up to remove it from the chamber, but for informal plinking it works pretty good. Mine will run a whole box of 9mm with only a couple of missteps.

I was looking pretty hard at the Gold Cup Trophy and Trophy Lite a few months ago. I was looking at .45ACP, but IIRC they are both available in 9mm. The quality of the guns I looked at in person seemed good, but every edge on the gun was razor sharp.

I ended up buying a Tisas Match in .45 instead. It may not have the prancing pony on the side, but the quality is just as good, and it didn't try to slice my hands every time I handled it. With the money I saved over the Gold Cup, I bought a 1967 Lightweight Commander...



I like the prancing pony as much as anyone, and I have several Colts, but for a shooter these days, I think you can get just as much gun and spend a lot less money doing it.

Get a .45 like the real he-men Seriously though, I like the .45ACP, was issued one in the military, carried one for years in LE, etc. But the .38 Super and 9mm are still fine cartridges in 1911 type pistols. With factory Colts, utilizing the traditional unramped barrels, the Super is more reliable within my humble experience. With other manufacturer's 1911 type pistols utilizing integrally ramped barrels, the 9mm can be every bit as reliable as guns in the "proper" .45 ACP or .38 Super calibers. As is common with the Colt 9mms I've owned, my current 9mm Gold Cup can only be depended upon to function reliably with RN ball and one type of JHP ammo. Anything else, don't count on it. With an aftermarket .38 Super barrel installed in the 9mm Gold Cup, function with all the different .38S and .38 Super Comp factory and reloaded ammo I've used is reliable. My 9mms by other manufacturers function reliably with whatever type of ammo I'm using. Much as I like the 9mm, if you want a Colt that will likely function reliably with whatever type ammo you happen to be using, get the Super.

For several years, I have been shooting more 9mm and 38S in 1911 type pistols than .45 ACP. Even the hottest loads with the Super and 9mm have less recoil than common 230 grain .45 ACP ball. In my admitted geezerhood, I enjoy the lighter recoil...YMMV

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NRA Life, COTEP 640

I have a Colt Competition and a Colt Classic in .38 Super. They are both outstanding pistols, I’ve put a couple of thousand rounds thru each in just a couple of years. They are some of my favorite Colt’s to shoot. I even qualify with the Classic for work. Several guys who’ve shot the .38 Super have gotten their own, or tried to. They don’t turn up in shops around here too often.

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Wheel guns are real guns.

I have two 1911's in .45 and one in 9mm. I would get the .38 Super

Around 30 years ago I acquired a Series 70 Government Model in 9mm that had been customized into what would probably now be a Gold Cup predecessor. It shoots better than I do and I still have it. I was amazed when in a IPSC match I was able to put a double tap into the "A" zone, which was about the size of a pop can. My recommendation is buy the 9mm Gold Cup, plus a Bar-Sto barrel, link, link pin, bushing and magazines in .38 Super.

I think I'm the oddball here.

I really like 1911s in 9mm. Availability of ammo and brass makes me like it more than 38 super.

I don't have a 38 super 1911... I do have a 9mm 1911... a Colt GC in 38 super would be old school gangster cool... and if I was going to do 9mm 1911 over again... it would be a double stack 1911/2011.

I assume most here know that the 9mm and .38 Super 1911s are identical. All that is needed to switch from one to the other is to swap barrels and magazines so you can very easily have two caliber capability within about a minute. I fail to understand the back and forth here about which caliber is better when you can so easily use both for the price of another barrel and magazine. Or is this supposed to be a secret?

I bought my first Super 38 almost by accident not long ago. I quickly had a 9mm barrel fitted.

The Super is a sweet shooter and the ammo is easy to find either online or locally. The 9mm ammo is abundant and makes for cheap practice.

I got a Commander because I like the Commander size, it just fits me

My only complaint is that my Ciener conversion will not work with the Super 38 or 9mm ejector, only the 45 version. The 22 makes for really cheap practice.

I let me dad shoot it and he tried to swipe it when I wasn't looking. Yes, it's that good

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On the Oak Savannah

No trick to swap ejectors. Have been doing it for many years.

If you’re talking Dan Wesson, but the 9MM.

Dan Wesson quality is by far better than most 1911’s currently produced. Bold statement I know. They one of very few gun makers that do not use MIM parts.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

So have you decided yet? Inquiring minds want to know.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

He does have a point there. It is real easy.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

My Gunsmith speaks very highly of the new Colt 1911s. His opinion carries a lot of weight with me because he knows them inside and out. I don’t have one.

To me, a 9M in a 1911 is the worst of both worlds. The old adage was: People but a 1911 for the caliber (45ACP), and buy the 9M for the pistol. I agree. Ballistically, there’s not enough difference in the 38 Super and the 9 to mess with the 38 Super. I’m too much of a pragmatist.

I shot my 1911 ALOT years past. The recoil of my 45, which to me is fairly light with 200 G going 900 FPS doesn’t bother me. I just don’t shoot the 1911 since I bought my CZ Shadow 2 SA from Palmetto State Armory for $999 plus shipping and transfer. Recently I got a CZ Shadow 2 compact. Both those guns will consistent put 5 shots under 1.5 inches at 25 yards. They’re just extremely accurate. They never malfunction.

The S2 Compact has become my favorite. It is a 9M size gun that will keep up with the best 9M 1911s. Plus it holds 15 +1. Great trigger for a box stock 9.

So…… buy the Colt 1911 in 45 ACP.

9M? CZ S2 Compact. Get em both!

Your money - your decision. The 1911 has been perfected by many manufacturers. For some the only 1911 is a 45ACP Colt. I own a number of "premium" 1911's but the 1911 I shoot the most is my ATI commander in 9mm. It is as accurate as the others and just a nice, quality pistol. My popular gunsmith bought one after deep-cleaning mine. The Colts are likely "superior" in "pride of ownership", but the ATI puts rounds down range as faithfully and I can get a lot of ammo with the money that I saved.

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My (CZ) Colt Gold Cup Trophy in 9mm has been flawless from day one. As far as Light Weight Commanders go, the (CZ) Dan Wesson Guardian in .38 Super are just about perfect.

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Living a dream - S&WCA #2364

The 1897 prototype and M1900 were chambered for the .38 ACP, NOT .38 Super. To fire .38 Super ammo in one of these old fossils would be foolhardy and dangerous.

The cartridges are the same size, but the .38 Super is loaded to much higher pressure.

The CZ/Dan Wesson 1911's are of good quality. Can't speak for the CZ/Colts.

I originally wanted to buy a DW 1911 in 38 Super during COVID but they became hard to find so I bought a DW Pointman PM-9 in 9x19 & later bought a 38 Super barrel (that I fitted to it) along with some 38 Super mags & heavier recoil spring.

Now I can shoot either cartridge from the same pistol.

The 38 Super can be loaded hot or mild & is fun to handload for.

I prefer to use Starline's 38 SC (Super Comp) brass but I haven't had any issues with their 38 Super +P brass either.

Also I'd suggest getting a model that has a fully supported (integrated feeding ramp) barrel, as the DW does, especially for hot 38 Super loads. Do the Colts have that?

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Waiting for the break of day

In about 50 years of shooting, it is my belief after examining a large number of Colt 1911s over those years, that Colt is building the best 1911s they ever have in their entire history. I would prefer the .45 or the 9mm over the Super, but that is more about ammo choices than the quality of the pistol.

EDIT: If you get a 9mm 1911, and if you have any feeding issues, you might look for the magazines designed by Rob Leatham, sold by Springfield Armory. They used to be in the Dillon catalog back in the day, but I have not looked for them recently. They differ in that there is an internal ridge inside along the rear spine of the magazine body which causes the 9mm cartridge to sit further forward than the cartridge would otherwise sit in a 1911 magazine without the feature. It was always my understanding that this magazine solved feeding issues by placing the cartridge in the same position relative to the feed ramp and pick up rail as other cartridges using longer cases. I have not researched it recently, nor have I seen it mentioned recently anywhere, but I know those Rob Leatham-designed 9mm magazines for the 1911 worked 100% in a 1911 9mm that I used to have.

I'm leaning towards the .38 Super because I've never owned one, and other than .45 ACP in a Colt 1911, it seems the most traditional. The consensus seems to be Colt is making a pretty good pistol at this time so I will probably stay with a Colt.

Thank you members for all of your comments!

The Super .38 is a very good caliber and I am interested in a 1911 chambered in it. The fiscal reality is that I have far more important uses for my money and the performance envelope is close to other platforms I have. It has long been my understanding that the .Super .38 will work more reliably than 9mm under most conditions and with less effort. Modern manufacturers have improved on that, but I admit that if I want a 1911 in 9mm I would look hard at the EMP as it has been scaled for the 9mm.
I have a Wilson KZ9, which initially needed some magazine work (done at Wilson with my feedback) after which it has been a great platform and very reliable with stout duty/carry ammo.

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NHI, 10-8.

The current crop of Colt 1911's are excellent! I have a 38 super but would not recommend getting one only because the ammo is expensive and hard to find unless you reload it yourself.

I would highly recommend getting the Colt 1911 in the traditional 45acp. To me, even though they are made in 9mm, the 45acp is the classic go to round for the 1911. Their 45acp Gold Cup NM is excellent!

It is possible to use a .45 frame for 9mm and .38 Super by getting a 9mm/.38 slide, barrels, an ejector, magazines, and appropriate recoil springs. Everything you need on the same frame. I have read, but have not personally verified, that .40 S&W and 10mm barrels work OK with the 9mm/.38 slides. So you potentially can have up to a five caliber arsenal using the same frame.

DWalt is right, it is possible, with sufficient effort, to have one receiver and multiple caliber top ends. As for 9mm, 38 Super, 40 S&W, and 10mm Auto sharing the same slide, that's a "maybe". I'm certain that older Colt slides were pretty much caliber specific. You could convert a 38 Super slide to 9mm easily because the rim of the 38 is slightly larger than that of the 9mm, but going to 40 or 10mm was a no-go.

I currently have a new production Para Ord 9mm/38 Super slide and a Remington R1 40 S&W/10mm Auto slide on my bench. These two slides are identical in terms of materials, machining, and finish, there are only two significant differences, the roll marks and the width of the breach face. The 9mm slide has a smaller width breach face than the 10mm slide. Using 9mm or 38 Super in a 40/10mm slide is going to result in a sloppy fit of the cartridge rim to the breach face, sloppy enough that I would not recommend doing it.

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

I have a couple 9mm 1911's and one in 38 Super. The 9's are good guns but they leave me somewhat nonplussed. Something isn't "cool." The 38 Super just makes me grin for some silly reason. That said, 38 Super is a handloading exercise for me. That's because of cost and that mine prefers 38 Super Comp brass instead of the standard rim configuration of ordinary brass. Why do I have the nines? In plate matches, I don't mind losing 9mm brass, especially from remanufactured (read cheap) "just gotta go bang" ammo. I'd rather not lose 38 Super Comp brass.

38 Super can be loaded pretty stout compared to 9mm. Some factory major power factor loads can be downright snappy. My 38 Super handloads are tame in comparison; comparable to 9mm.

If you're like me, OP, I'd suggest a 38 Super. If anything, it's something new to play with. And in a 1911 it carries a dose of panache, unlike the 9mm.

I have three slides that I use on the same frame. One slide is from a .38 Super, I have a .38 Super barrel, a .38 Special barrel, a 9MM barrel, a 40 cal barrel and a 10MM barrel that I use in it. I also have a slide for my .45 ACP cal barrel and a slide for my Colt Conversion Unit in .22LR.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Below is pictured part of what I was discussing.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

In addition to my 9mm/.38S/.45 ACP setup on a GI .45 frame, I also have a .400 CorBon barrel. Despite its being a pure handloading proposition, the.400 CB adaptation is the simplest conversion, and shoots the tightest groups, at least for me. It will do anything the 10mm or .40 S&W can do with the appropriate loads. I also have a .22 conversion but very seldom use it as I already own numerous .22 handguns so I don’t really need it.

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Retired LE Instructor/Armorer