Mystery vest pocket pistol

LVSteve · Sep 5, 2017

Shot this for the first time yesterday. I believe it is a Unique pattern vest pocket pistol in 25 ACP (or 6.35 for my European viewers). The slide and frame bear no maker's marks or proofs, just a serial number. The machining is rough and ready as you can see inside the slide.

The grips are not original as there are tapped holes at the back of the frame under them. The contour of the backstrap appears to be unique as much trawling of the Web has yet to reveal a similar piece. Best guesses from others are it is a Spanish "no name" for Germany in WWII or an Italian piece.

kaaskop49 · Sep 5, 2017

W.H.B. Smith's Book of Pistols and Revolvers has an Appendix #1 with 24(!) pages of faint, indistinct photos of .25 ACP autos. The closest I can come, based on the forward sloping finger grooves and the shape of the rear strap is on pg 553, called a "Seam" and that is only the best guess I can make. Virtually everything not a Beretta, Colt or German-made .25 looks 90% like a Unique knock-off. It's really rough, isn't it, a lot like a 30 oz(!) Spanish .32 ACP I once ran across, I forget the name.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

bigwheelzip · Sep 5, 2017

Someone else was looking for it's cousin in this thread, post 36.
Greetings from France

Texas Star · Sep 6, 2017

kaaskop49 said:
W.H.B. Smith's Book of Pistols and Revolvers has an Appendix #1 with 24(!) pages of faint, indistinct photos of .25 ACP autos. The closest I can come, based on the forward sloping finger grooves and the shape of the rear strap is on pg 553, called a "Seam" and that is only the best guess I can make. Virtually everything not a Beretta, Colt or German-made .25 looks 90% like a Unique knock-off. It's really rough, isn't it, a lot like a 30 oz(!) Spanish .32 ACP I once ran across, I forget the name.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

Ruby ?

I think all Unique guns are French. This one looks like a really raw Spanish copy of the FN 1906, less grip safety. The Czech Duo Z is a better gun of that type.

Absalom · Sep 6, 2017

I would bet money it is a generic Basque-Spanish copy of the basic Baby Browning design (more or less).

Many of the dozens of Eibar-area gunmakers who sold Rubys to the French during WW I produced "pocket" versions and other variants after the war to have products for the commercial market. Fit, finish, and general appearance of this gun is very similar to a Ruby, just shrunk.

english · Sep 6, 2017

Absolam hit the nail right on the head! They either copied the Colt or the Browning vest pockets.
Joe

LVSteve · Sep 6, 2017

bigwheelzip said:
Someone else was looking for it's cousin in this thread, post 36.
Greetings from France

Close! It's the minimal radius at the top of the backstrap to the vestigial beavertail that makes my gun so unusual. Still looking for a twin.

LVSteve · Sep 6, 2017

Texas Star said:
Ruby ?

I think all Unique guns are French. This one looks like a really raw Spanish copy of the FN 1906, less grip safety. The Czech Duo Z is a better gun of that type.

Ruby!!!! Of course! I must of had brain fade when I said Unique.

Absalom · Sep 6, 2017

LVSteve said:
Close! It's the minimal radius at the top of the backstrap to the vestigial beavertail that makes my gun so unusual. Still looking for a twin.

Do a Google-image search for "Ruby pistol .25". You'll get a grab bag of pictures that may yield results.

On the other hand, the "twin" might be hard to find considering that just parts interchangeability between Ruby pistols even from the same manufacturer was iffy, as the French found out to their chagrin.

LVSteve · Sep 6, 2017

Absalom said:
Do a Google-image search for "Ruby pistol .25". You'll get a grab bag of pictures that may yield results.

Tried that a few times. No joy.

2152hq · Sep 7, 2017

The sharp angle the backstrap takes at the web is very acute,,don't recall seeing any like that before. I got some book references re" Spanish pistols with info and many illustrations and I didn't see any that matched.
But there are so many different makers just in the Spanish makers before 1936. One list I have gives nearly 100 makers of 25cal semiautos.
Some were actually mfg'rs/makers,,others just assemblers of other outsourced parts. But they generally were pretty proud of their stuff and marked it well.
It looks like a Spanish product or at least the design does with the Eibar type safety, the bbl flutes at the muzzle, the bar disconnector.
But Belgian copies are out there too from the same period and some reflect the same features. A couple of the Spanish firms even had pistols made in Belgium to their style and specs.
French mfg is another possibility as they copied some of the Spanish designs. They had plenty to look at from the thousands of surplus French issue Ruby (32cal) Spanish mfg pistols that flooded France after WW1.

Another possibility is the old lunch box special. That idea seems to have been around as long as factories and employees. Wouldn't take much to hi-jack a piece or two out of some of the Spanish facilities they worked in a the time. Some were truely shade tree operations w/a tree. Others fairly well established shops.

I guess another possibility would be a Pakistan/Kyber Pass knockoff. They can make some pretty nice stuff if they want need to and everything else in betw as far as quality goes.
Markings would be whatever the mechanic sitting on the dirt floor of his shop wanted to put on them or had the tools/talent to do.
The 'S 'for safe mark when looked at close up has distinctive wavy lines to the upper and lower curves to the letter.
It would take some die cutting skill to make a hand stamp with that small of features in it,,The mark itself might be hand cut/chased (lacking a handy 'S' stamp). Looks can be deceiving in a pic though and that might be all that it is that I'm seeing;

Neat little pistol where ever it's from.

Olle · Sep 7, 2017

Absalom said:
I would bet money it is a generic Basque-Spanish copy of the basic Baby Browning design (more or less).

Many of the dozens of Eibar-area gunmakers who sold Rubys to the French during WW I produced "pocket" versions and other variants after the war to have products for the commercial market. Fit, finish, and general appearance of this gun is very similar to a Ruby, just shrunk.

I'd say you're right. Pocket pistols like this (and the "Rubys" as well) were made by numerous more or less talented manufacturers, and some were not proud enough of their work to stamp their company name on it. I have also seen these guns with Colt stamps on them, which was an attempt to fool the customer into thinking that they were buying a quality product. Interesting guns, but not really collectible unless you happen to collect Spanish clones.

Mystery vest pocket pistol

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