afriqueart
Member
Our Tennessee Carry Permit instructor gave us this handout. Very interesting reading.
On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs
On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs
On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs
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The Rabbi
Member
This fits the unfortunate tendency in the gun community to see people who go armed as some kind of uber-warrior special breed of human.
I personally don't see carrying a gun as much different from carrying a spare tire, and knowing how to use it.
I personally don't see carrying a gun as much different from carrying a spare tire, and knowing how to use it.
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afriqueart
Member
I was wondering what kind of response this would get.
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J. Galt
US Veteran
This has been hashed over so many times you may not get the responses you were expecting.
Glock 'em down
Member
The difference is...if you carry a handgun EVERY DAY you are aware of it and you (hopefully) had some degree of training with it and you (hopefully) fire it well and often.
When is the last time you changed a tire?
Take the NASCAR pit crew for instance. They can change a tire faster than I can get my keys out of my pocket to open my car's trunk! Why? Because they do it for a living and they do it all the time.
That's the way carrying a weapon for a living is. You take it seriously and you don't just carry a gun for kicks and giggles.
A reporter bumped into Mark McGwire one time and asked him if he was nervous about chasing the home run record and if he thinks about it very often. He told the reporter that he was hitting home runs in his mind as they spoke.
The late Jeff Cooper (RIP) once said that owning a gun and not knowing how to use it is the same as owning a guitar, not knowing how to play it and calling yourself a musician.
I have had the sheepdog link posted in my signature since I discovered the internet. IMHO, it describes perfectly who and what I am.
My daughter read it and said, "I guess you gotta be thataway when you're a policeman."
I told her, "maybe I'm a policeman because I am thataway."
The Rabbi
Member
ALmost everything on a gun board has been hashed over many times.
Personally I find the whole mindset offensive and counter-productive to what we are trying to do. Never mind the inaccuracy of the whole description.
I've changed a tire about half a dozen times or more in my adult life. I've never had to draw my gun, much less fire it.
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I've been called a sheepdog, but not exactly in the same way the term is used in the article. I don't CCW to protect the sheep, I CCW to protect Mamma Sheepdog and the puppies. While Mamma Sheepdog does not CCW she does keep in practice with her 1911A1 in case she has to defend the dog house against wolves.
Glock 'em down
Member
Another vote for walnutred. Like "The Rabbi," I find the sheepdog analogy a bit overdrawn. It may be accurate in certain locales, and I see some parts of this country headed that way, but I think that there are still parts of the country where most adult males accept their responsibility, and those who can't sometimes get a helping hand or a free ride.
See signature.
See signature.
Phillips7609
US Veteran
I thought the article made perfect sense. As a matter of fact, while I was reading it I had the feeling that it was just common sense and shouldn't even need to be said. When my wife and I go out anywhere There's always a gun within reach.
Also, I had never really thought about it before, but I "look" for the BG's. For instance, before getting out of the car to go into a convenience store I make sure I have my gun on me because I may be the only one there that could make a difference if something happened.
I hope I never have to shoot anybody; but on the same token I couldn't live with myself if I stood by while others were being hurt.
Also, I had never really thought about it before, but I "look" for the BG's. For instance, before getting out of the car to go into a convenience store I make sure I have my gun on me because I may be the only one there that could make a difference if something happened.
I hope I never have to shoot anybody; but on the same token I couldn't live with myself if I stood by while others were being hurt.
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Agreed, but does that make you a "sheepdog?" I think it makes you a normal adult male with common sense, and it would be nice if more adult females acted the same. Hell, it would be nice if more adult males acted the same.
The Rabbi
Member
Maybe we didnt read the same article.
Everything you do when you go out, I also do. I would bet most of us do. I also check my tires periodically and try to get some exercise and think twice before spending money on something. These just seem like life-skills measures.
My argument with the "sheep" metaphor is an "us and them" mentality, and an idea that we are somehow morally superior because we choose to carry.
It isn't so.
Everything you do when you go out, I also do. I would bet most of us do. I also check my tires periodically and try to get some exercise and think twice before spending money on something. These just seem like life-skills measures.
My argument with the "sheep" metaphor is an "us and them" mentality, and an idea that we are somehow morally superior because we choose to carry.
It isn't so.
Phillips7609
US Veteran
From Model520Fan: Agreed, but does that make you a "sheepdog?" I think it makes you a normal adult male with common sense, and it would be nice if more adult females acted the same. Hell, it would be nice if more adult males acted the same.
I see your point exactly and I agree. Our society has become so dependent and deluded that It's like a nation of ostriches with their heads in the sand.
To answer your question, no, I don't feel like a sheepdog. I just have this inner sense that those ostriches are not going to fend for themselves.
BTW....I taught my wife how to shoot and she carries a Kel-tec compact 9mm with her at all times.
I see your point exactly and I agree. Our society has become so dependent and deluded that It's like a nation of ostriches with their heads in the sand.
To answer your question, no, I don't feel like a sheepdog. I just have this inner sense that those ostriches are not going to fend for themselves.
BTW....I taught my wife how to shoot and she carries a Kel-tec compact 9mm with her at all times.
Phillips7609
US Veteran
That's why I said it sounded like common sense to me and shouldn't even need to be said. And I don't feel morally superior to anybody.
But I think there are those who carry guns that don't realize the responsibility that goes with it.
If I'm the only one with a gun when a BG shows up, I feel a sense of responsibility. That makes perfect sense to you and me; but there are those with guns that just carry for the sake of carrying and would stand by and let Mr. BG have his way.
That's the point I thought the article was making.
The Rabbi
Member
I'm probably lacking common sense then. Because to me, my handgun is there to protect me and my family. If I can get away, I'm going to. If I can avoid drawing and/or firing, I'm going to. Other people have had the same opportunities to learn as I have. If they chose not to, that isn't my responsibility.
Phillips7609
US Veteran
Have you ever served in the military or been a LEO? Please don't take me wrong if you haven't. I'm certainly not bashing anyone or trying to display any kind of superiority. But you develop a sense of being "the protector" over a period of time in these settings. I guess some people don't understand that.
I'm not saying you should go out looking for trouble. I'm just saying that IMHO, you should be prepared to defend your family, the innocents around you and yourself. In that order.
The Rabbi
Member
Never been in either. Nor is it a mindset I'd care to develop. And a good reason why I often say LEOs should never train private citizens.
jgrazjgraz
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the only reason I can think of why some folks wont help a stranger from a BG is fear of the aftermath that comes with that..remember Bernie Getz in NY,,and he was helping himself and look what trouble he had...
if I were put in that situation, I THINK I would try to keep a level head and make the best move possible to prevent any harm to anyone +myself and family without trying to be a hero...
I basically took on this responsibility to protect me and my family, but if put into a different scenerio not being a professional LEO,,,I would probably be scared s%#t,but would do what I had to do.
if I were put in that situation, I THINK I would try to keep a level head and make the best move possible to prevent any harm to anyone +myself and family without trying to be a hero...
I basically took on this responsibility to protect me and my family, but if put into a different scenerio not being a professional LEO,,,I would probably be scared s%#t,but would do what I had to do.
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The Rabbi
Member
To my mind the purpose of the permit is self defense. It isn't a license to make America beautiful or clean up the mean streets. My first priority is my safety and getting home to my family. Everything else comes after that. If my intervention will help someone else, great. But that's not what I'm there for.
Phillips7609
US Veteran
But what if you were in a fast food restaurant and most of the innocents were children? Could you find a fast exit and leave them there and be able to look yourself in the mirror for the rest of your life?
I know that the laws are one sided when it comes to rights to defend, but if the good guys won't stand up, the bad guys take over.
Look at Columbine High School. If one of the students had had a gun on campus (a felony) and had taken out the BG's before they had a chance to kill all those kids, how do you think he/she would've been perceived? By the parents and community: a hero. By the law: who knows? He probably would've been indicted. But he would have the inner peace of knowing that he did all he could.
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