Considering switching from Semi to Revolver for CC....

[shooter-55]

and was curious from those that have if they have switched back. I am currently carrying a G19 strong-side in a Blackhawk Serpa paddle holster. BUG is an LCP in pocket holster front right pocket. I was wondering what your thoughts are on:
1. round capacity
2. conceal-ability
I know that there will be differing opinions as to the capacity issue, but I am a strong advocate of shot placement instead of "spray and pray", not taking into account for multiple assailants. I thought maybe a .357 with a 2 1/2" barrel.

 

[Erich]

You know, I started out carrying a revolver (back in the '80s) but wanting to carry a semiauto. Then I carried a lot of semiautos. Then I went back to revolvers. Etc.

Okay, so nowadays in the wisdom of middle-age, what I carry depends on what I feel likely to be a concern that day, how I have to dress that day, and - let's be honest - what I feel like carrying.

In the past week, for instance, I've IWB-carried a K-357 with heavy loads on a hike, IWB-carried a GP-100 with heavy loads on a hike, IWB carried a Detective Special a couple of days, pocket-carried a Beretta 21A, pocket-carried a Chiefs Special a couple of days, pocket-carried a Detective Special, IWB'd a Detective Special a couple of days, and IWB'd a CZ RAMI 9mm a couple of days.

For me, pocket-carry of a "real" gun works better with a revolver, if for nothing else than it just draws better for me (easier to get my hands around a small revolver gripframe than a fat semiauto gripframe) with the guns that I own (Kahrs pocket-draw very well, but I don't use them for reasons that are irrelevant to this discussion). Heck, I draw a revolver faster than a semiauto, too. And I like how (relatively) idiot-proof they are.

I'd like to be clear that I don't believe that your .357 will be more effective on human targets than your Glock 9mm. And it'll probably be the same size, heavier, and certainly less capacious. But, so what? Reloading is unlikely to ever be an issue (heck, using the thing is unlikely to ever be an issue, thank God). Carry what you like.

Personally, I shoot slightly better with most semi-autos than most similarly sized revolvers (compare, say, my results with the RAMI to those with the DS - which is a very accurate snub, BTW), but the difference is minimal. What's interesting to me is that I can get back on target a hell of a lot faster with the semi than with the revo. Obviously, the semiautos have to be reloaded less frequently, and are somewhat faster to reload (and I carry 16-rounders in reserve for the RAMI). And, while various social-work-level rounds can do various things better than other various social-work-level rounds, pretty much all social-work rounds work pretty much the same in social-work situations (the folks I've seen who spend a great deal of time arguing "9mm vs. .40 vs. .45 vs. .357 vs. .38 vs. phased-plasma-rifle-in-the-40-Watt-range" generally don't seem to have worked on a lot of cases involving such). So I don't think that's a concern for defense-against-people use.

Argh - why did I even start down this thread? I could kill a morning BSing with you on this subject. Upshot is that there are millions of little variables to consider, that none of them are likely to be all that important, and that the resulting answer therefore is that you should carry whatever you feel like carrying that works for you at that time.

 

[J274895]

Considering that there no "set" circumstances for a self-defense shooting, I'd say that your shot placement theory is more of a pipe dream than a theory.

Besides, what makes you think you'll be any better with shot placement with a revolver than with your Glock 19??

 

[TSQUARED]

and was curious from those that have if they have switched back. I am currently carrying a G19 strong-side in a Blackhawk Serpa paddle holster. BUG is an LCP in pocket holster front right pocket. I was wondering what your thoughts are on:
1. round capacity
2. conceal-ability
I know that there will be differing opinions as to the capacity issue, but I am a strong advocate of shot placement instead of "spray and pray", not taking into account for multiple assailants. I thought maybe a .357 with a 2 1/2" barrel.

Initially I carried a Glkock 36 but found it difficult to reliably conceal. I switched to using either my S&W 642 or Kahr PM-9 in pocket holsters.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

I may not be typical, but my choices may be informative. Although I occasionally carried an auto, I usually carried a revolver until I took LFI-II and LFI-III. By the time I was through with those courses, I was pretty used to my stainless Series 80 Government Model, brand unmentionable. I carried it in a Milt Sparks Summer Special, and the next ten years or so proved that that combination was a safe rig to wear when I couldn't mess around with my rig for even twelve hours or so. I also usually carried a Model 37 or a Model 40 as a backup one way or another. I did occasionally carry two Model 40's, instead of the .45, one way or another. I also occasionally carried a SIG-Sauer 225 in a Galco shoulder rig, and occasionally other guns. All of these choices varied partly with what clothing was acceptable or desired, and partly with what remained accessible under anticipated conditions. I'm sure you realize that when you are strapped into a car, some carry choices are nearly useless.

Fast forward to ten years ago or so. I started carrying a revolver in a soft attache case, because that was what was safest at work. For whatever reason, I ended up practicing more with revolvers than with bottom-feeders. The first time I went back to practice with my Gov't Model, I noticed that it wasn't as familiar-feeling as my revolvers, so I ended up continuing to carry revolvers, even though the work situation went away. I noticed also that I did not miss the excessive gun-handling involved in making the transition from unloaded storage to carry mode and back, when handling autos. I still know that the Gov't Model is a safe choice for all-day carry, and I consider that and my Commander, my Para-Ord and my BHP all to be fine guns that have certain advantages over revolvers. However, I consider myself current mostly with revolvers (they are all about the same), and they are so much simpler to handle that they remain my first choice under most circumstances.

 

[Erich]

Considering that there no "set" circumstances for a self-defense shooting, I'd say that your shot placement theory is more of a pipe dream than a theory.

Hmm - that strikes me as perhaps coming across a bit harsher than was probably intended. Certainly, there's the famous "Ammo is cheap: anything worth shooting is worth shooting more than once," meme. And I think there's validity to that with regard to handgun use.

OTOH, I think there's a heck of a lot of validity to the idea that shot-placement is crucial. It's just flat necessary in guaranteeing a handgun stop - to the extent such a stop can be guaranteed (I've never seen someone continue aggression after taking a hit to the aorta, for instance, and a medical professional who's a gun nut explained why).

I suppose a more precise statement might be that "Shot-placement, while crucial, cannot be guaranteed by any one shot under stressful combat conditions, thus it's not a bad idea to have all the capacity possible - given a sufficient caliber." (BTW: I understand this to be a simplified restatement of why Gabe Suarez tends to carry a Glock 19 - and I don't find a thing to criticize in this statement.)

And, you know, on those rare times when I have concern that something (socially) ugly is more likely than usual to confront me, I carry a large-capacity 9x19.

 

[2000Z-71]

Different tools for different situations. I don't think I'd replace the G19 with a snubby revolver, but get the snubby to augment it. Something like an Airweight j-frame to carry in the pocket for when the G19 is not a viable option. I know you mentioned a Ruger LCR, but I'm not a big fan of the .380. While I do own some high capacity semi autos, I rarely carry them. To me the weight and size are not worth the effort that the comfort of having the extra rounds brings.

 

[user]

1) What Erich said.

2) A .38 special, or .38+P will have more than adequate capability at defensive range, and will be a lot less flash/bang/recoil than a .357. Both will have enough kinetic energy at fifty feet to crush human bone, so any well-placed shot with either will do the job. And a .38 is going to be a lot easier use on the second and subsequent shots if necessary, than a .357.

3) A 2" to 3" revolver is going to be pretty hard to control using .357's. It's sort of like taking a picture - after you've pressed the button, you've got to be able to hold the camera still or you'll get nothing but fuzz. If, after having pulled the trigger and activated the primer in the cartridge, you don't maintain control while the bullet's still in the barrel, you're not going to hit what you aimed at. And a snubnosed .357 is about the most difficult gun there is to control, in my experience. I'd go with a 4" .38, such as the S&W models 64 or 67; in fact, I do, because they're much more effective than a snubnosed .357 (I traded away my S&W 649-5), and effectiveness is what counts.

 

[flop-shank]

I'll take a .357 in a full size revolver over .38+P anyday. Should anyone else? Sure............if they're willing to pay the dues required to control such a beast. If IWB carry is an option get a 4" minimum .357 and take full advantage of what the cartridge has to offer and get more sight radius to help with that shot placement thingy.

I honestly don't get excited about K frame and larger .357s with barrels shorter than 4". If the Glock is 100% and concealment isn't an issue you might do just as well to keep using that.

 

[GatorFarmer]

I'd get rid of that Serpa whatever you do, but that's another story...

Yes, I've gone back and forth.

While I still own a snub .357 amongst my varied other guns, I don't carry it. If you want .357 Mag ballistics, just get a .357 Sig auto. Even the common factory loads deliver ballistics identical to a .357 snub. If you want the 4" classic 125 gr ballistics, send away to Double Tap for some of their product.

Since you already know how to use a Glock, simply purchase either the G32 that is the same size as your G19 or else get a G33 that is smaller. Or if you want to stick to 9mm, get a G26 if you want a smaller gun.

I currently carry a Sig P229R in .357 Sig. (And yes various and sundry J frame BUGs, I have a number of them and consider them generic and interchangeable.) I do own a G32. I just like the Sig better. Why? I paid more for it so made myself like it.

Snub .357s are heavy. They're no easier to hide than a baby Glock. Don't handle much better either, at least not for me.

I can conceal most anything. I sometimes carry a 629 4" OWB and for a decent spell carried a 4" Model 58 IWB.

 

[tops]

My old grannie always said if you are using a real gun one shot per target is enough. So quick repeat shots is a not a concern unless you have multiple targets.
2 1/2in .357 1246fps--15grs. 2400, 158 cast bul.
4in. .38spec. 989fps--10grs. 2400, 158 cast bul.
My findings tell me that a short barrel .357 has more power than a long barrel .38spec. and it is easier to conceal. Larry

 

[Knightrider03m]

My next gun will more than likely a revolver...... I would carry it in low risk areas. As I travel to high crime areas for work/school to low crime areas (my house)

 

[TXbug]

I thought maybe a .357 with a 2 1/2" barrel.

Have you ever shot a .357 mag 2 1/2" revolver? It can be a handful especially the J-frame models.

 

[elcruisr]

A lot depends on the person, the gun and their comfort zone. In the summer heat I routinely carry a stainless 649 J Frame and use full house Federal 125's in it. I don't find it particularly hard to use including follow up shots. Now, the same type revolver in scandium would be a bear!

As for it being supposedly heavy to carry I can't agree. In a good rig I honestly don't feel it at all. I'm one who shakes my head in wonder at the endless hand wringing over carrying a few more ounces of weight. Unless you have a physical limitation with a good carry rig it's immaterial.

For most of us law abiding civilians a revolver can certainly still be the ticket for many situations. Yes, I also have the options of two different 1911's and an Airweight +P .38. All of them have their place.

 

[flop-shank]

As for it being supposedly heavy to carry I can't agree. In a good rig I honestly don't feel it at all. I'm one who shakes my head in wonder at the endless hand wringing over carrying a few more ounces of weight. Unless you have a physical limitation with a good carry rig it's immaterial.

I agree, excepting a coat pocket which can sag. I carried a 3 lb. gun as a primary all day.

 

[Glock 'em down]

Given the choice between the two (and yes, I have both wheelies and bottom feeders) I'll choose a revolver every time.

Why?

Because...

1. I cut my teeth on the Smith & Wesson revolver.
2. You can't "limp wrist" and jam up a revolver. The damned things work. Period.
3. If I'm in a situation (as a civilian) that I'm gonna need more than 6 rounds...I've lost already.

I'm a cop. I carry a Glock 22 on duty. My agency issues it - I carry it. Off duty, I carry a revolver EXCLUSIVELY. Off duty I don't even touch that damned ol' plastic pistol. Mainly because I'm 41 years old, I don't frequent bars or such, I never go to the "bad" part of town and I'm rarely ever out at night when the boogy-man is out and about.

Therefore, a sixgun is plenty for me.

 

[ladder13]

Pass the popcorn

 

[GatorFarmer]

1. I cut my teeth on the Smith & Wesson revolver.
2. You can't "limp wrist" and jam up a revolver. The damned things work. Period.
3. If I'm in a situation (as a civilian) that I'm gonna need more than 6 rounds...I've lost already.

I'm a cop. I carry a Glock 22 on duty. My agency issues it - I carry it. Off duty, I carry a revolver EXCLUSIVELY. Off duty I don't even touch that damned ol' plastic pistol. Mainly because I'm 41 years old, I don't frequent bars or such, I never go to the "bad" part of town and I'm rarely ever out at night when the boogy-man is out and about.

Therefore, a sixgun is plenty for me.

1. That's good, a person should use what they know how to use.

2. Revolvers can and do jam. Sometimes it is a mechancial problem, sometimes the ammo. It does happen. They're a lot more of a problem to clear when it does happen.

3. Aside from my usual semantic quibble that LEOs are in fact always civilians (if you're not in the U.S. or some other nation's armed forces, you're a civilian)... Something I learned in the ghetto - the bad part of town can come to you. It's better to rob people in the 'burbs. They have nicer stuff and are less likely to be expecting it. I live in suburbia now. Guy got robbed by three armed teens not long ago in his own yard in broad daylight. Fun stuff. The boogeyman tends to bring friends these days.

 

[Glock 'em down]

Once again, and as usual, I stand corrected.

 

[45stops-em-quick]

Get a better holster, and carrying that G19 will be dream. I like the Milt Sparks VM2 or the Summer Special 2. I like a revolver for deep concealment, but for everyday, a polymer auto is the best, ounce for ounce, and inch for inch.