.357 Mag LEO use

[3rd Gen Neal]

I know that the semi-auto is king now and has been for a while, but back when the wheel gun was mostly what was carried by LEO (mod 27, 28, 19, 66 etc..) were they commonly loaded with magnums? I'm just curious. I know the FBI used +p .38's and from what I have read most police agencys only allow +p .38's for off duty J-framers these days. I can see why in todays lawsuit happy world magnums are frowned upon but I would hate to think that all of the .357's that were on patrol back in the day were loaded with .38's. If I were on patrol back when car doors were actually metal I would want to carry magnums. Thanks, I am just wondering about this.

 

[charlie sherrill]

I carried Supervels and armor piercing.

 

[sigp220.45]

The FBI could carry Magnums (145 grain Silvertips) as reloads and in the gun with permission of the ASAC (Assistant Special Agent in Charge).

I'm buying a couple of 586-2s from a local tribal police department. The Chief says all they ever shot out of them were full bore 125 grain Magnums. I know the local Sheriff's Office also issued Federal 125 grain magnums for their deputies. Maybe its a western thing.

 

[Bat Guano]

After a certain amount of PC farting around (.38 Spl. 158 gr. RNL, 110 gr. +P+, 110 gr .357) in the 70s and 80s my agency standardized on 125 gr. .357 JHPs for quite a long time.

In those days management occupied itself with relatively minor, if annoying, issues. With Obama and Napolitano, everything is now a cluster.

 

[Iggy]

When we were finally issued .357 magnums, we were issued Model 66's and 125 grain JHP's.
I never carried mine as I felt the light 357s had inadequate penetration capabilities on cars as noted.

I continued to carry my 41 Magnum with 210 grn JSP. They worked very well on anything that arose.

I left the Patrol not long after they were issued.
I was told that they only used those guns for a short period, as they shot them loose in no time.

 

[RedBerens]

My department gave officers a choice of the Remington .38 Special +P 158gr LSWCHP or the Remington 125gr SJHP magnum. Officers who wanted to carry the magnum had to qualify at least once a year with them, while officers who carried the .38 Special could use the mild target loads each qualification.

The range officer at the time said that the officers who chose the magnum usually went down around 10% in their scores, so the poorer shooters usually stayed with the .38, rather than chance getting in trouble for failing to qualify.

 

[jimmyj]

Hi:
Agencies I was employed by that allowed .357s:
1. S&W Model 28 4" or 6" - Rem 158 gr. mag JSP
2. Colt Python 6" - Rem 158 gr. 38 spl plus p LSW-HP
3. S&W Model 19 - Win 145 gr. 357 Silvertip
4. S&W Model 28 4" - Rem 158 gr. JHP

 

[kennyb]

in the revolver era we were only issued 38 ammo...we carried model 10's,ruger security six and i also carried a model15 and trooper....all with 38's

 

[safearm]

I posted this reply in another thread, and I think it's applicable here:

I started as a LEO in 1977; at the first department, we had to buy our own guns and carry the department issue ammo. Guns had to be Colt, S&W, or Browning, in 9mm, .38 Special or .357 Magnum. All issue ammo was Remington; 115 grain SJHP for 9mm, 125 grain SJHP in .38 Special. Most of the guys carried a K-frame revolver, either a 19/66, two guys carried Colts, and the 9mm carriers were exclusively S&W Model 59s.
At the next department, we were issued S&W Model 15s and carry ammo was WW 158 grain LSWCHP+P (Chicago load). After probation, you could carry any 6 shot revolver you wanted, after approval by Range Officer, as long as it would chamber the issue round and had a 4 inch barrel. Investigators could carry 2 inch J frames. The majority of the department stayed with K-frames, either the issue M15 or a 19/66, a couple of us, me included, carried Pythons, and one guy carried a Dan Wesson.
Both of these departments were in suburban Chicago (Lake County), and to the best of my recollection, no department carried magnum ammunition. I can't remember anyone I worked with, and there were plenty of us young "gun nuts" who worked together, feeling undergunned with the Chicago load. Many of us wanted to carry autoloaders, like the Illinois State Police (Model 39s), and would have been perfectly satisfied with the Model 59 (I carried one as an off-duty gun from my first department) and the ISP load (WW 115 grain +P+), but the Range Officer was an old school NRA revolver champion, and it wasn't until he retired and a new chief came in that the search for a new gun started, and resulted in adoption of the Sig 220 in .45ACP, after I had left.
I don't think it was political correctness or public relations that kept us from carrying magnum ammo. It was simply that the Chicago load worked; it was effective, it was easy to control, and it could be chambered in just about any type of handgun that could be used for police work. Why try to fix something that wasn't broke?

 

[keith44spl]

In the mid-70s and early 80s some of us were still carrying revolvers. I wore the rig below on and off for about 10 years or longer.

We didn't have all the 'stuff' hangin' around our belly like these young guys do now...No chem sprays, no tasers, no hand held radios, no cell phones, well you get the idea.

I carried the little airweight in my left pant pocket or jacket pocket topped off with a handloaded hollow based wadcutter seated up-side down and Super-Vel 125 JHPs or a handloaded 125gr. JHP
over a case full of 2400 in the .357. The first Sheriff I worked with was a ol' gunman and knew about good handloads and such things. Now days if'n you tried to used a good stout handload some lawyer would file a suit for you just having 'em in your patrol unit...

Su Amigo,
Dave

 

[pawncop]

With the Sheriff's department back in 1979, our reserve coordinator, advised we carry Federal 125 JHP as our duty round. Reserve officer's were not allowed to carry off duty back then but with a wink and a nod, we were to have one ready if needed.

Transferred to the police department in 1984.

Continued to carry Federal Hydroshok 125 grain JHP until 1989 when our new chief decreed we would carry the 158 grain all lead hollow point 38 special +P load.

I choose to upgrade to the 45 ACP rather than carry the 38.

 

[stiab]

I believe the idea that .357 magnum revolvers were issued but .38 Special ammo only allowed is an 'urban legend'. It was not true in my case, and in another thread over on the ammo section a couple months ago I asked if any LEO from that era could say they had to load down to .38 Special. None said they had to, but several said they had magnum revolvers with magnum carry rounds. There may have been a small sampling of agencies requiring .38 carry in .357 mag revolvers, but it was certainly not the rule of the day as some on the internet would have you believe. I'm curious as to how this misinformation got started.

 

[310Pilot]

My Dad was a member of the Sheriff's Mounted Posse (the only reserve unit of the Sheriff's Department at the time) in the 1960's and early 1970's. He carried a 4" Python with 158 grain semi-jacket soft points and/or hollow points, as well as having a box of 158 grain armor piercing ammo for "special situations." That department required a Colt or S&W revolver in .38 Spl or .357 Magnum (everybody, full-time or reserve, had to buy their own weapons), barrel length 3.5" to 5", and allowed "full-house" magnum loads. In fact, most of the deputies carried a .357 loaded with full magnums. Everybody was also required to carry at least 6 .38 Special rounds in addition to their standard ammo loads, even if carrying a .357 Mag, so that they could help out another deputy who may be carrying a .38, should he run out of ammo during a confrontation.

BTW, I often carry my 4" Python in Dad's old Bucheimer Federal Man holster - still a great rig.

 

[Damn Yankee]

I am a Reseve officer in the Sheriffs Dept and my duty gun is a 686.

My issued ammo is 38 SP+P 125 GR Gold Dot

 

[Indycar]

Standard issue in the 80's for Indianapolis PD, Marion Cty Sherriff (Indy burbs) and Indiana State Police was first a 4" M66 and later a 4" M686.
Standard loads were Federal 357B 125 gr SJHP. A lot wish that it was still the issue round. Bug's usually had the FBI load Rem/Fed/Win 158 gr. LSWCHP +P.

 

[DelavanKs]

I still carry.....

I still carry a wheel gun
I carry a 27-2 and I use Federal 125 gr JHP
My Bug is a 642 and it uses 125 gr JHP +P Federal
I have to qualify twice a year with my duty ammo
Chuck

 

[Ted E Bear]

In my earlier LEO days before my dept allowed the 45ACP, the Remington 357 Mag 158gr semi jacketed hollow point (we called them "rose pedals) was supplied by the dept, and I carried a S&W mod 19-1 4 inch.

 

[RABULL]

In the early 1980's, I worked for a Sheriff's Department that would only authorize .357's. We qualified with .38 special 158 SWC but they issued us .357 magnum 125 grain JHP's. Most of the rest of my career I have carried .45 ACP's and .40 S & W's on and off duty while working for City PD's.

 

[Muley Gil]

"I believe the idea that .357 magnum revolvers were issued but .38 Special ammo only allowed is an 'urban legend'. It was not true in my case, and in another thread over on the ammo section a couple months ago I asked if any LEO from that era could say they had to load down to .38 Special."

I worked for a sheriff's department and a municipal police department. Both allowed .357 loads. IIRC, Birmingham AL PD only allowed non-magnum loadings, even if one bought their own .357 revolver. The issue gun was a M10 heavy barrel.

 

[S. Hammer]

My first department (1986), a city in south Palm Beach County, FL issued Ruger Police Service Sixes in .357 but mandated .38+P ammo only. Later they went to 9mm Model 669's with Silvertips. My second department(1989), a suburb of Orlando, issued 4" Model 66's with .357 125 gr JHP ammo. They went to magnums after a perp took 6 .38's to his chest and ran about 100 yards before collapsing and dying. Wanted a faster stop. They later went to SIG P226's with 115 gr. JHPs. Current agency issued a Model 4046, then went to Glock 35's in .40 180 gr. JHP.