I have just started reloading and have successfully made some .38spl reloads. I am using an old Speer #8 reloading manual that I obtained with some other used reloading equipment. The rounds I've produced are 158grn LSWC over 5.0grns of Unique and a CCI #500 small pistol primer. This is the recommended load in the manual with 6.0grns being the max. However, I have been reading accounts that 5.0grns should be considered a +P load due to a reformulation of Unique powder in recent years. Is there any validity to this? I'm worried that my reloads will be too hot for my 1937 built Colt Official Police. I will also be shooting my reloads with my +P rated 638.
Unique Powder Charge for .38spl?
- Thread starter zainyD
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Dale53
Member
The Speer #14 shows 4.7 of Unique behind a 158 gr SWC being max in .38 Special.
+P .38 Special shows same bullet ahead of 5.2 grs of Unique.
FWIW
Dale53
+P .38 Special shows same bullet ahead of 5.2 grs of Unique.
FWIW
Dale53
Dan Cash
Member
I have been using 5 grains of Unique under a 140 to 158 grain bullet for moer than 40 years. Old Unique and new unique; velocities have not changed in the M27 that I have had all these years. It performs well in a bunch of other Smiths.
Loading books aside, 6 grains of Unique under 158 grain bullet is
WAY TOO HOT!!!!!
Loading books aside, 6 grains of Unique under 158 grain bullet is
WAY TOO HOT!!!!!
Skip Sackett
US Veteran
Well, you have run onto a problem that has been around for awhile!
You need to get a newer manual for one thing. The powder manufacturers have data sites on the web, use them too.
I use data from the Speer #8 manual a lot and what I said previously may sound hypocritical but hear me out. I use the Speer #8 data in modern firearms that are rated +P or for 357Mag only. Sure, I tried some of it in an older M14 with a 6" barrel. Just a trial though.
The newest Lee manual is the one I would get if I could. It has data collected from many sources. Many from the powder companies.
There have been folks that have shot 5.0gr of Unique in their vintage 38spl revolvers for years. I have also heard of someone busting a forcing cone doing it.
Get a newer manual.
You need to get a newer manual for one thing. The powder manufacturers have data sites on the web, use them too.
I use data from the Speer #8 manual a lot and what I said previously may sound hypocritical but hear me out. I use the Speer #8 data in modern firearms that are rated +P or for 357Mag only. Sure, I tried some of it in an older M14 with a 6" barrel. Just a trial though.
The newest Lee manual is the one I would get if I could. It has data collected from many sources. Many from the powder companies.
There have been folks that have shot 5.0gr of Unique in their vintage 38spl revolvers for years. I have also heard of someone busting a forcing cone doing it.
Get a newer manual.
I am planning on buying a new manual.
I just visited Alliant's web-site and in their "Reloader's Guide" they list 4.7grns of Unique combined with a CCI #500 primer producing 815fps from a 6" barrel. In my Speer #8 manual it lists 5.0grns producing 850fps out of the same length barrel.
I just visited Alliant's web-site and in their "Reloader's Guide" they list 4.7grns of Unique combined with a CCI #500 primer producing 815fps from a 6" barrel. In my Speer #8 manual it lists 5.0grns producing 850fps out of the same length barrel.
Alk8944
US Veteran
Go here: Alliant Powder - Reloader's Guide This will take you right to the page of the Alliant on-line loading that has +P data for this bullet. Notice 5.5 Gr is maximum in the powder manufacturers data. Your 6.0 gr. will be developing in the 26,000 PSI range, this is into moderate .357 Magnum pressures.
Cocked & Locked
Member
Unique
4.7 grains
4.7 grains
Paul5388
US Veteran
In the 2005 Alliant Reloader's Guide, the max .38 Special with 158 gr LSWC was 4.3 gr at 930 fps and 16,000 psi.. The max +P was 4.5 gr at 950 fps and 17,100 psi. Both were shot out of a 5.6" barrel.
I don't believe you'll see any of those numbers in the real world, since that's about what I clock with 5.5 gr.
I don't believe you'll see any of those numbers in the real world, since that's about what I clock with 5.5 gr.
Steve C
Member
I've ran this .38 spl load over my chronograph, 5.0 grs of Unique behind a Speer 158gr LSWC in a PMC case and lit by a WSP primer does 901 fps average of 12 rounds out of my 4" S&W 67. This is definitely a commercial equivalent load to Winchester, Remington or Federal 158gr 38 spl+P.
This somewhat depends upon the primer. Using CCI 500 small pistol primers instead of Winchester I will usually get around 2% less velocity.
Your Colt OP is built on the large frame and will stand up just fine to such loads so if it where my gun I'd have no problem shooting your loads in it or the +P rated S&W.
FWIW for many years before chrono's where available and affordable I loaded 158gr LSWC's on top of 5.5grs of Unique. These where shot out .357 mags as I didn't own a .38 spl at the time. When I first bought a chronograph I ran some over it out of that new used S&W 67 I had picked up. These loads averaged 1,084 fps from the 4" Smith well above most +P loads. I decided to back off by .5 grs after that.
This somewhat depends upon the primer. Using CCI 500 small pistol primers instead of Winchester I will usually get around 2% less velocity.
Your Colt OP is built on the large frame and will stand up just fine to such loads so if it where my gun I'd have no problem shooting your loads in it or the +P rated S&W.
FWIW for many years before chrono's where available and affordable I loaded 158gr LSWC's on top of 5.5grs of Unique. These where shot out .357 mags as I didn't own a .38 spl at the time. When I first bought a chronograph I ran some over it out of that new used S&W 67 I had picked up. These loads averaged 1,084 fps from the 4" Smith well above most +P loads. I decided to back off by .5 grs after that.
5 grains of Unique with a 158 grain LSWC or LSWCHP and a CCI 500 primer is my standard load in all of my .38 Specials, including my Colt Official Police. Never had a problem. BTW, the Colt Official Police frame size was also used for the Colt Trooper which was made in both .38 Special and .357 Magmum, and later the Colt Python .357. I bought my Colt Official Police on March 2, 1982, and God only knows how many rounds I've put through it, all reloads as above, much less how many rounds went through it before I got it. -Ed.
redhawk444
Member
The #8 Speer manual is known to contain a lot of "hot" loads and if that is the manual you are using, be aware of that.
According to the chronogrph results in Speer #8 the load under discussion would yeild 898 fps in a 6" gun, so that indicates that the pressure is indeed +P.
That load would be fine in the Colt OP, but if it were me, I would not shoot many of those in the 638.
On page 367 you will find loads referred to as "defense loads" and they warn that constant use of these loads in J frame gun will result in loosening of the action.
I would expect the loosening to occure quicker in an aluminum framed gun.
Skip Sackett
US Veteran
Good thought!
This is a good point. I have run "THE LOAD" through a "J" frame. It was an all stainless steel M60 -13. 3" barrel, adjustable sights and oversize Hogue grips!
Surely a handful though, surely a handful!
This is a good point. I have run "THE LOAD" through a "J" frame. It was an all stainless steel M60 -13. 3" barrel, adjustable sights and oversize Hogue grips!
Surely a handful though, surely a handful!
Forester
Member
With 158 grain lead:
4.5 Unique for my everyday load.
4.5 Unique for my everyday load.
made some target loads the other day ...about 800 of them
5.0 grains Unique,158 LSWC and I love em ...shoot really good...I shoot them in a .357 J frame,M66 and a heavy barrel trick gun I have.
5.0 grains Unique,158 LSWC and I love em ...shoot really good...I shoot them in a .357 J frame,M66 and a heavy barrel trick gun I have.
27 Man
Member
I've loaded 5.0 Unique behind a Lyman 358156 with a CCI 500 primer for years now. With this load I normally skip the gas check. I go ahead and add the gas check when I kick the load up to 5.3 grns. Unique. I shoot them in all my steel frame .38 Special and .357 Mag. handguns.
tbury
Member
Current data from manufacturers web sites are the best bet for reloading info. What any of us shoot in our guns may not work for you. It all depends on the gun, bullet and primers you use. This discussion comes up frequently about new powders vs old powders. Unique today burns as close to Unique made in 1950 as it is possible for Alliant to make it. What has changed is the recommended loads that the companies feel comfortable publishing. Whether it is the lawyers or better pressure measuring methods, published data from the 60s and 70s is no longer supported by Speer, Hornady, Hodgden etc. I would not recommend you shoot some of the loads I have put through my 38-44 Outdoorsman (1200fps) in a model 36. It is always better to find a load that works best for your bullet choice and gun. Start low (recommended starting load), shoot from a rest and work up to find which load gives the best group or shoots to point of aim for a fixed sight gun. Save hot loads for a +P gun or a .357 mag gun, that is why they exist. I tend to use bullseye or titegroup in my .38s, but that is my choice not yours. JMHO
Well, I put 50rds through my Colt and 638 today at the range and they were a little warmer than I would like. Everything on the cases was normal, no signs of overpressure. However, I think I will keep the rounds I have left for a .357 gun or a newer .38spl with a larger frame.
I made quite a few of the 5.0grn loads so this was a lesson learned for me as a new reloader, test your load first before turning out a big batch.
On my next batch of reloads I will take the powder charge back to 4.7grns or 4.5grns.
Thanks again everyone for the advice.
I made quite a few of the 5.0grn loads so this was a lesson learned for me as a new reloader, test your load first before turning out a big batch.
On my next batch of reloads I will take the powder charge back to 4.7grns or 4.5grns.
Thanks again everyone for the advice.
