Loaded some .44 Magnum with H110 and standard primers...

[GregG]

...by accident. I meant to use magnum primers, but installed CCI standards.

Did I screw up? I live in Texas, and it's hotter than Hades right now, so I suspect it ill be fine. I was just wondering what the usual difference is in ES and velocity for other guys.

Load is 23 grs. H110 with 240 gr. Gold Dot in new Winchester brass.

Thanks Gents.

 

[cp1969]

You should be fine. The loads might be a little more erratic and down a little bit in velocity but you probably won't be able to tell the difference unless you're shooting out of a Ransom Rest.

 

[kscardsfan]

Please post your results. I have been wondering about this kind of scenario myself since I don't have any magnum pistol primers in my inventory right now.

 

[shovelwrench]

Supposedly the .44 likes standard primers better.

Read it a few places and have on one instance seen evidence supporting it.

Edit..

cp1969, the velocity is'nt down near as much as you would think.... only 100FPS or so.

 

[cp1969]

That's why I said he probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

The only experience I have with the standard vs. magnum primer effect was in my .357. I worked up a load of 9.0 gr Unique with 125 gr. JHP. I accidentally substituted magnum primers in one batch and they were then too hot.

In the .44 I use standard primers but I also use 2400.

 

[GregG]

I'll shoot a few next weekend to see how they group. My baseline is some loaded with 24 H-110 and mag primers.

I gave away my chrono so I don't have a way to check the velocity. I'm sure they'll be fast enough to get a speeding ticket tho'!

 

[Snapping Twig]

Been loading H110/W296 since 1983 and not once have I used a magnum primer.

Read an article by Skeeter Skelton talking about non magnum primers giving more consistent results, tried it, it worked, never looked back.

.357 and .44 mag.

Just because Casull sent me their data indicating a CCI SRM primer, I use those of the .454.

 

[beach elvis]

Funny stuff, H-110/296.
In my Lyman manual, 23.5 min. and 24.5 max of H-110 over a 240 gr. JHP.
Half a grain less (min and max) for 296.

Loaded 50 at an even 24 gr. of H-110. Figured right in the middle of min and max oughtta be a good start.

After the first shot out of my 629 Classic DX, I ejected the case to have a look. Primer completely flatted.
...hmmm...
Fired 2 more. Primers flat as Kansas.
...hmmm...
Got away from those and shot up a bunch of 240 JHP's over 11 gr. of Unique. No problems.

When I got home, I grabbed my dammit aka bullet puller. 5 different times, pulled bullets and weighed the charges. Dead-nuts 24 grains.
These rounds were loaded old school with a balance scale, trickler, and Lee Hand Press, allowing total attention to detail @ every stage.

Curious.

 

[Dragon88]

Were there any other pressure signs? H110/W296 makes for some high pressure loads, and my primers often flatten out. However, they are not over max pressure.

While one batch of loads with standard primers might be ok, that's no excuse for poor loading practices. H110/W296 call for magnum primers and they should be used as intended.

 

[beach elvis]

Were there any other pressure signs? H110/W296 makes for some high pressure loads, and my primers often flatten out. However, they are not over max pressure.

While one batch of loads with standard primers might be ok, that's no excuse for poor loading practices. H110/W296 call for magnum primers and they should be used as intended.

Nope, no other signs. That's what had me scratchin' my head.
It would suck majorly to shoot my 629 Classic DX loose just due to my own ignorance. That's why I quit shooting them until I could find out more than I already knew.
+1 re: magnum primers where specified.

 

[dla]

Funny stuff, H-110/296.
In my Lyman manual, 23.5 min. and 24.5 max of H-110 over a 240 gr. JHP.
Half a grain less (min and max) for 296.

Loaded 50 at an even 24 gr. of H-110. Figured right in the middle of min and max oughtta be a good start.

After the first shot out of my 629 Classic DX, I ejected the case to have a look. Primer completely flatted.
...hmmm...
Fired 2 more. Primers flat as Kansas.
...hmmm...
Got away from those and shot up a bunch of 240 JHP's over 11 gr. of Unique. No problems.

When I got home, I grabbed my dammit aka bullet puller. 5 different times, pulled bullets and weighed the charges. Dead-nuts 24 grains.
These rounds were loaded old school with a balance scale, trickler, and Lee Hand Press, allowing total attention to detail @ every stage.

Curious.

Beg/borrow a chronograph. Reading primers is a art that by itself is of dubious value. Higher than expected velocity AND flattened primers means something, but "flattened", (which requires a picture posted so the experts can tell if is really flattened), doesn't really mean much.

H110/296 is slow enough that it should be hard to damage your gun. Also, what was your COL? And whose JHP are you using? What primer?

 

[beach elvis]

Beg/borrow a chronograph. Reading primers is a art that by itself is of dubious value. Higher than expected velocity AND flattened primers means something, but "flattened", (which requires a picture posted so the experts can tell if is really flattened), doesn't really mean much.

H110/296 is slow enough that it should be hard to damage your gun. Also, what was your COL? And whose JHP are you using? What primer?

Howdy, dla.
OAL was 1.61".
Bullet was 240 gr. Hornady XTP.
CCI magnum LP primers.
By "flattened", I mean the primer edges became SHARP corners. No rollover at the edges whatsoever. Squashed as flat as they could get. For a picture, you can look in Lyman's 48th ed. manual on pg. 61, if you should happen to have a copy. I'm afraid I don't have a digital camera. I'll definately see if I can borrow a chronograph. Great idea.
Thank you very much for your interest, everybody. I can never have too much help.

My apologies to the OP for the inadvertant thread hijack.

 

[Dragon88]

With just the flattened primers and no other signs, I wouldn't consider the load unsafe. I use W296 in 357 and 44 mag. I know none of the loads are over max pressure based on case extraction, velocity, charge amount, etc, yet the primers flatten out pretty good. They are high pressure certainly, but not over pressure. I have seen similar flattening from hot loads using other powders, from factory ammo, etc.

 

[GregG]

No problem! Let's hear everybody's stories about this combination.

Mt first loads with 24-H110 and 240 Gold Dots had flat primers, like yours, compared to all of the other cases fired that day. That's why I backed off to 23 on this last batch I loaded. 23 is the minimum load on Hodgdon's site so I figured it was ok.

 

[Dragon88]

The minimum loads for H110/W296 Hodgdon posts on their site are really good, functional loads in the calibers I have tried. If you work toward the max load you get more recoil, noise, and flash, but not nearly enough additional fps to make it worthwhile to me.

 

[cp1969]

Question: Winchester primers (WLP and WSP) say "for standard and magnum loads."

Which are they?

 

[buck460XVR]

I'll shoot a few next weekend to see how they group. My baseline is some loaded with 24 H-110 and mag primers.

I gave away my chrono so I don't have a way to check the velocity. I'm sure they'll be fast enough to get a speeding ticket tho'!

If your not going to shoot them till next weekend, why don't you e-mail Hodgdon and ask them what they think. They have always answered my questions quickly and with a definitive answer. I always use magnum primers with H110/W296 because that is what my load books call for. It's no secret H110/W296 is hard to ignite and the possibility of a squib by not using magnum primers, altho slight, is always there.

23 gr of H110/W296 is my regular load for my M629 and my Ruger carbine using a 240 gr JHP/JSP or XTP. For hunting I bump it up to 23.5. I tried 24 but it wasn't as accurate for me as 23 and 23.5.

 

[GregG]

I called CCI this morning and the gentleman I spoke with said that in my climate the worst that will happen is the velocity will be down maybe 100 fps, but the 300 primer will light 23 grs. of H110.

I'm going to use these loads to break the barrel in. I'm wanting to go with cast bullets with this gun, and I'm going to lap it in, then after that finish breaking it in with these jacketed loads, just like I break in a new stainless rifle barrel....shoot one and clean for 10 shots, then shoot five shots, then clean, etc. I want to get the barrel consistent in size and smooth.

The bullet I plan on shooting the most of after that is the .432" 240 WFNGC that Montana Bullets sells, with about 10 grs. of Unique. (My throats measure .4325")

 

[cp1969]

.432" sounds big. Did you slug your barrel/chambers?

 

[dla]

Howdy, dla.
OAL was 1.61".
Bullet was 240 gr. Hornady XTP.
CCI magnum LP primers.
By "flattened", I mean the primer edges became SHARP corners. No rollover at the edges whatsoever. Squashed as flat as they could get. For a picture, you can look in Lyman's 48th ed. manual on pg. 61, if you should happen to have a copy. I'm afraid I don't have a digital camera. I'll definately see if I can borrow a chronograph. Great idea.
Thank you very much for your interest, everybody. I can never have too much help.

My apologies to the OP for the inadvertant thread hijack.

I shot that exact load a bunch and certainly don't consider it to be over-pressure. It is certainly not a mouse-fart load for the owners of pretty perl-handled revolvers, but it is safe.

H110/296 shows a little bit of temp sensitivity. When I was Chrono'ing back in Feb (40*F), CCI350 primers produced much tighter spreads than Wolf LP. At that point I decided to stick with magnum primers, either CCI350 or Wolf LP Magnum. I can believe that folks in warmer areas (West Texas makes Hell look good) could use standard primers just fine with the slower powders.