NYPD to go M&P

[JRWnTN]

Aren't those things striker fired, with no trigger reset if you get a misfire?
I wouldn't own one, or a Glock. I know that some feel differently.
Of the NY list, I'd buy the SIG.
T-Star

Most LE training programs don't teach a second strike on a misfire, even with pistols that have the capability. Eject and try again with a new round.

 

[MTS Cop]

MTS Cop, any updates?

I've heard nothing since I first heard about it. Others have told me they asked and were told the program is on hold for now. I have a friend in the current academy class and the 5946 is still one of the options. He wisely chose it I might add.

 

[Grog]

Aren't those things striker fired, with no trigger reset if you get a misfire?

Just like the first 5946s (not sure if the TSW versions have double strike capability, doubt it though).

 

[KyWstJoe]

I am always glad to hear any PD switching to a "born in the USA sidearm". S&W has been making fine shooters for a long time. We don't need no stinkin' Glocks. Keep our money right here in America.

 

[45FMJoe]

Aren't those things striker fired, with no trigger reset if you get a misfire?

I wouldn't own one, or a Glock. I know that some feel differently.

Of the NY list, I'd buy the SIG.

T-Star

We are taught to immediately use a phase 1 clearing if there is a misfire. Second strike capability is absolutely worthless. Tap, rack, ready.

 

[S. Kelly]

At a recent shooting event at our Dept range, S&W had a big presence, donating a M&P15 with a Surefire light for the winner and plenty of guns to fondle. The S&W rep (who claimed to be with Glock for 14 years prior) was a big M&P guy (obviously) and when asked why NYPD was breaking M&Ps during testing, he claimed it was because the heavy trigger was smoothing out to under 10 Lbs. and NYPD didn't like that. I didn't ask why the M&P40 we tested broke, he seemed like a nice guy.

 

[snowman.45]

GDHP 124+p

NYPD issues the Speer Gold Dot 124gr.+P JHP for their 9mms and they are extremely happy with it. If I'm not mistaken, they use duty loads for quals too.

We issue the same round. In the shootings we have had, they have performed very well. I'm a .45 guy at heart, but I don't have any problem with our Glock 17, 19 and 26's when loaded down with these. They run at about 1240 fps out of the 19.

 

["Cold Dead Hands" !]

My M&P's have never malfunctioned.
Just need to be careful that your thumb doesn't accidently activate the slide release button while firing !

 

[remat457]

At a recent shooting event at our Dept range, S&W had a big presence, donating a M&P15 with a Surefire light for the winner and plenty of guns to fondle. The S&W rep (who claimed to be with Glock for 14 years prior) was a big M&P guy (obviously) and when asked why NYPD was breaking M&Ps during testing, he claimed it was because the heavy trigger was smoothing out to under 10 Lbs. and NYPD didn't like that. I didn't ask why the M&P40 we tested broke, he seemed like a nice guy.

What is breaking in testing?

 

[Elmer]

From what I have heard it all boils down to an ammo problem. They are seeing functioning problems only with the compact and our service ammo. S&W says its too dirty causing the problems, as I believe other ammo is digested w/o any problems. The job is not going to change ammo, it happens to be an excellent round. S&W and the range are working out the problem.

Typical. The Speer 124 GD +P has been used by hundreds of departments for many years with no issues. Smith has a problem with a new gun, "gee it must be your ammo".

Reminds me of back in the 80's, when they would tell agencies that it was their ammo that was locking up the L frames. Problem was, it didn't matter whether you were using Remington, Winchester, or Federal, whatever you had, they'd tell you it was causing the issue.......

That lasted until rangemasters started talking with each other and some news articles were written..... Hello recall....

Most LE training programs don't teach a second strike on a misfire, even with pistols that have the capability. Eject and try again with a new round.

Yup... if it didn't go off the first time, good chance it won't go off the 2nd...... Get rid of it and start fresh.

 

[bodyarmorguy]

I would love to see a run of 4506's!

I had a couple of different Smith auto-pistols over the years but the 4516 just really "worked" for me......still not sure why I ever sold it? Probably found some other "tacti-cool" thing I had to have.

 

[agksimon]

I have an M&P9c and if I limpwrist the gun, you can get a situation where the gun short cycles and doesn't kick out the empty and jams up.
The slide is slightly lighter on the compact and this may have something to do with it.

 

[WR Moore]

S&W recently won the BATFE contract, beating out Glock and Sig. Sig filed a protest when they got kicked out for a lack of reliability and some of the paperwork may shed light on the NYPD situation.

The BATFE testing involved both full size and compact models (the agents get one of each). A portion of Sigs protest (after they whined about an excessive emphasis upon reliability) dealt with perceived remedial actions allowed to S&W. BATFE countered, noting that a compact weapon experienced a number of malfunctions, but that the tester self diagnosed the cause as shooter induced and requested that the backstrap be changed on her weapon. When that was done by the test proctor, malfunctions ceased. Since that was an adjustment to suit the weapon to the shooter (required part of the weapons specification) rather than actual mechanical adjustment to the weapon, that was within the testing protocol.

Perhaps that's the issue with NYPD, as noted by some earlier, thumbs in the wrong place, which backstrap changes can correct (sometimes-others the grip has to change).

 

[ultra45]

S&W recently won the BATFE contract, beating out Glock and Sig. Sig filed a protest when they got kicked out for a lack of reliability and some of the paperwork may shed light on the NYPD situation.

The BATFE testing involved both full size and compact models (the agents get one of each). A portion of Sigs protest (after they whined about an excessive emphasis upon reliability) dealt with perceived remedial actions allowed to S&W. BATFE countered, noting that a compact weapon experienced a number of malfunctions, but that the tester self diagnosed the cause as shooter induced and requested that the backstrap be changed on her weapon. When that was done by the test proctor, malfunctions ceased. Since that was an adjustment to suit the weapon to the shooter (required part of the weapons specification) rather than actual mechanical adjustment to the weapon, that was within the testing protocol.

Perhaps that's the issue with NYPD, as noted by some earlier, thumbs in the wrong place, which backstrap changes can correct (sometimes-others the grip has to change).

Nope, not the issue. The compact has problems reliably eating our ammo.

Update: M&Ps still not authorized.

Oh & BTW, Mossberg pumps are still out of service. Highway and ESU still using old Ithaca 37's. The job has found the problem(s) and solutions, now waiting for Mossberg to anti-up.

 

[scootle]

Nope, not the issue. The compact has problems reliably eating our ammo.

Update: M&Ps still not authorized.

What ammo is that... the Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P?

Thanks!

 

[W.E.G.]

How about setting a performance standard, and a specified ammunition, and letting the OFFICERS choose their sidearm from a long list of respectable firearms?

Make the officers qualify every six months (and not just make that a standard on paper - I mean really come to the range and qualify every six months minimum).

Fail to qualify or gun no-worky, then admin. leave without pay until qualify and gun-worky. There are some people who are going to limp-wrist any semi-auto pistol, and who are going to have misfires, no matter what. Get them off the department, or let them correct third-grade spelling tests.

Teach the sergeants how to spot a dirty or neglected gun.

I can't stand how some cops show about as much understanding of their personal sidearm as a teenage girl changing a tire.

This business of pistol selection by committee bureaucracy run amok.

 

[ultra45]

How about setting a performance standard, and a specified ammunition, and letting the OFFICERS choose their sidearm from a long list of respectable firearms?

Never work, the Department is TOO large.

Make the officers qualify every six months (and not just make that a standard on paper - I mean really come to the range and qualify every six months minimum).

We do re-qual every 6 months.

Fail to qualify or gun no-worky, then admin. leave without pay until qualify and gun-worky. There are some people who are going to limp-wrist any semi-auto pistol, and who are going to have misfires, no matter what. Get them off the department, or let them correct third-grade spelling tests.

This is not a problem, the failure rate is not all that large, considering the amount of personal we have.

Teach the sergeants how to spot a dirty or neglected gun.

Gun inspection is done at sign-in.

I can't stand how some cops show about as much understanding of their personal sidearm as a teenage girl changing a tire.

Something that will never change in an organization this large. Human Nature, everyone marches to a different drum.

This business of pistol selection by committee bureaucracy run amok.

All warm and fuzzy for smal to mid-size Depts. Try that with a 35k dept and see where it gets you. Sorry, but its (within reason) one size fits all.

 

[ronmanci]

Why the 9 and not the .40?

 

[ilcharlieli]

I heard the new rookies are getting different holster too? One with a top strap like the pancake

 

[washburn832]

Just FYI the LASD has re-authorized the M&P9 and M&P9 compact. The problems were weak extractor springs. New classes are getting the guns and deputies in the field can carry it as an option.