Revolutionary War Tactics

BLACKHAWKNJ said:
Greene was probably inspired by Daniel Morgan's tactics at the Cowpens.
He positioned his militia in front of his main battle line, since he knew they would probably break anyway he told them that all he expected was two volleys, then they could withdraw. He put his riflemen in the first line as skirmishers. He positioned his troops on high ground so the British would basically be attacking up hill, he kept his dragoons in reserve so he launch a rapid counterattack if necessary. He ended up achieving a double envelopment and annihilated Tarleton's force.
The drill manuals of the period are the original source for tactics as the drills were the tactics.
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Rifleman as skirmishers, and when the Brits thought that they had the advantage after that first volley, they advanced into a trap. Who'd of thunk? :D

Never discount the rifleman...I'm linin' up all my reference's;)
 
The use of riflemen as skirmishers and scouts I believe started during the 7 years war.Rifles are slow to reload and you could not mount a bayonet thats why muskets and bayonets ruled.
 
Following up on Nathaniel Greene and the war in the south, a couple of good books I have enjoyed are :

The Fighting Quaker: Nathaniel Greene, by Elsworth Thane

and

The Road to Guilford Courthouse, by John Buchanan

He was quite the strategic leader with his use of resources. Having grown up in that area and visiting Guilford Courthouse often, I was glad to be able to participate as a militiaman at the bicentennial celebration and battle re-enactment.
 
Rifles are not slow to reload....where is that information coming from. It is as erroneous today as it was when G. Washington was fed it, back in the day...

Total HorsePucky...

Rifleman had speedloaders, same as today... Some will answer prove me just in the assertion, others will just nod and say it makes sense.....
 
gizamo said:
Rifles are not slow to reload....where is that information coming from. It is as erroneous today as it was when G. Washington was fed it, back in the day...

Total HorsePucky...

Rifleman had speedloaders, same as today... Some will answer prove me just in the assertion, others will just nod and say it makes sense.....
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European style muzzle loading rifles were VERY slow to load because the bore sized ball was HAMMERED down the barrel.

Pennsylvania rifles were faster because they used a patched ball. They were still slower to load than muskets.

The Ferguson was faster still, and finally faster AND more accurate than the musket because it was breach loaded with a bore sized ball.
 
Not directed at you Cmort...you just happened to be the above poster....;)

I have a Jaeger that is coned, I also have a loading block for it...

Never will it be as fast as a paper cartridge smoothbore...of which I own several...

But slow..... Never.

Spit patched every 5th ball is enough...


I'm now wondering which side of the mouth many of the posters here are speakin' from....Experience or Hearsay...:D
 
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The closet thing riflemen had to a "speedloader" was a loading block, mine has 6 holes in it, a lanyard to wear around the neck. You put 6 patched balls in it, that speeds up the loading process a little. The smoothbore musket was more popular as a civilian firearm, the Eastern Woodlands were pretty thick then (still are), long distance capacity was not need, plus the smoothbore could double as a fowling piece.
 
gizamo said:
Spit patched every 5th ball is enough...
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Giz,

When there is nothing between you and a Redcoat with a fixed bayonet but a split rail fence, where do you get that much spit?:eek:

Bob
 
gizamo said:
Rifles are not slow to reload....where is that information coming from. It is as erroneous today as it was when G. Washington was fed it, back in the day...

Total HorsePucky...

Rifleman had speedloaders, same as today... Some will answer prove me just in the assertion, others will just nod and say it makes sense.....
Click to expand...

You have to look at BATTLE conditions, and prepare for ANY contingency-

Have you ever fired your rifle for 6 hours, maybe longer? How many shots would that be?
Plus, you just got WHUPPED, and need to retreat. So now, you're boogeying thru the woods with a REAL dirty rifle, and it is dark, and it starts to RAIN, and you are tired and hungry. Wanna stop, and clean Ol' Betsy? Probably a good idea, but it gets worse- the enemy had fresh Infantry and Light Dragoons arrive at the battle's end. The infantry is chasing you, the dragoons outdistance you and set up a blocking force.
You now have an army that needs to be skillful at stick fighting, unless your enemy waits for you to clean your rifles. Had you equipped them with muskets and bayonets, you might have pulled it off......
Banzai!!
 
Lee,

Banzai!!! Your choice, Amigo. Not mine.

I live this, own the various guns alluded to. I shoot them regularly, re-enact with them often. My opinion is not one of having read about it....I've use them, lived with them, know their faults and honor....

Also have a pretty good handle on the history of these guns, their aspects in the timeline, etc...

You seem to have taken exception to my postings of the American History of the firearms I pursue, and the subject matter,....for what reason, I do not know.

I post historical references, bits of history...pieces of our collective past. It's not all pretty and nicely summed up, sometimes it's abit in disarray...

But we need to sort through it every century or so to make sense of the ordeal our Founders went through...

Say the word, and I will not haunt the forum again....



Or, Bail your butt out of the deep South and come up here next month and live with me and some other retro-bates... We will cleanse the present times, put your head in a better place, and make the insanity more bearable....Next Vous up here is the weekend after Columbus Day, I'm headin' in on Thurs and not leavin' until Sunday. Be proud to arrange your pickup at the airport. Not sure of the departure....

You'll prolly never want to leave....;)




Steve
 
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gizamo said:
Lee,

Banzai!!! Your choice, Amigo. Not mine.
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Not sure I understand what you mean, but I'm assuming you took "Banzai" as a challenge for personal combat. Unfortunately, I am wearing my "good clothes", and Momma will whip me if I get them dirty. :rolleyes:
Actually, I was stating that an army with unusable firearms facing a force with usable firearms had better be willing to make a "Banzai" charge, or simply mill around and be shot.



gizamo said:
You seem to have taken exception to my postings of the American History of the firearms I pursue, and the subject matter,....for what reason, I do not know.
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Scuuuuuse me.
I thought it was a discussion forum.
I don't recall 'taking exception' to your posts. I find them quite interesting, and like them. I usually have little to contribute, not being expert in BP.
I do know military history to some degree, and understand the larger picture of logistics that accompanies any soldier/army/battle/war.
Continuing the discussion, let's assume for a moment that the rifle was as practical in that day for battle.
Where would you even get enough to equip an army?
The only thing resembling a mass production factory in that day were government armories, or large contractors for European armories. None of them would be willing to convert to rifle manufacture for a bunch of rebs with little money. So we used the seized Brit arms, what the French supplied us, and whatever we could beg/buy/borrow/steal. Can you imagine trying to equip 50,000 riflemen with the production of one, two, or three man riflesmith shops in the colonies? Can you imagine the differences in bore diameter between all those various rifles and molds? Try loading your favorite rifle with a ball 10 thousandths too large. Then, try it dirty. I just miked a business card that is 11/1000's thick.... What a logistical nightmare.

The rifle became a practical, usable battle weapon because of Minie.
 
Lee,

Come to Maine. I'll make a rifleman out of you yet....

Honestly, I own as many smoothbores as rifles. My preference is the smoothbore. Mostly because of their utility.

Rifles are, and will always be the superior weapon ... I can load a smoothbore at about 3 shots a minute and shoot minute of pie plate at 25 yards. I'm pretty good at this.

I can do the same with a rifle and shoot a group at 100 yards that would take a man's heart out. I'm not so good at this....;)

For everyone, don't believe the stories, until you've shouldered the guns...

Steve
 
Here's some Revolutionary War humor at my expense. I have some much younger friends (young enough to be my sons) I associate with in the hobby of archery and last July at a camp out I asked them if they knew when the first instance of syncronizing watches occurred in battle. They gave up. I told them it was during the battle of Trenton after Washington crossed the Delaware and he divided his troops with instructions that the attacks would commence at XYZ o'clock. He syncronized his watch with that of the officer leading the other half of the army.

One of my younger friends asked me "Which direction did you go?"
 
washington disbanded the riflemen during the war.and daniel morgan was such a cry baby up north and got mad and took his little rifle corps and went home.at cowpens he did reedeem hisself but by making it hard to run by having the river behind his men. and by putting the militia up front. I am glad to see a rev war topic here.I have lived that war and time period since 1989 as militia.but our army was no good until we learned how to use the bayonett.as the hessian commander fighting up north said. these riflemen are to pitied not feared.after their first shot they take to long to reload and find their selfs pinned to the trees by our bayonetts.but at guilford courthouse the militia fired the 2 volleys that was asked of them before they fell back.did do heave damage to the brit chains of command by killing subaltrens and officers.
 
gizamo said:
"Patriot Riflemen During the Ammunition Crisis at the Siege of Boston" in 1775 by Hugh Harrington

Hugh T. Harrington is an independent researcher living in Georgia.

Without the Rifleman units from Pennsylvania, the fledgling Revolution might have ended in Boston.


Link...to the Article.

Riflemen 1775
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Gizamo - I am delighted that you like that article. The latest "Journal of Military History" [Oct. 2010] has an article of mine on Timothy Murphy at Saratoga. In that article I believe I conclusively prove that Murphy did not kill Simon Fraser. I traced the "history" of the Murphy story and unfortunately it originated in the 1850's - in his own lifetime Murphy was not credited with making the shot. Historians have simply parrotted the Murphy story for 150 years. Also, there is the question of ballistics of a roundball at great distances and the unsurmountable problems with making such a shot which apparently had not been considered before.
But! History is never set in stone - it is constantly evolving as new information comes to light or we see old information in new ways.
Hugh Harrington
 
gizamo said:
...
Rifles are, and will always be the superior weapon ... I can load a smoothbore at about 3 shots a minute and shoot minute of pie plate at 25 yards. I'm pretty good at this.

I can do the same with a rifle and shoot a group at 100 yards that would take a man's heart out. I'm not so good at this....;)
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I would love to see a video of someone hitting the lethal area of a life-size silhouette 6 times in two minutes firing offhand with an 18th century rifle.

I'm sure *somebody* can do such a thing, but I feel certain it was beyond the ability of the average colonial rifleman.
 
Maggie Drawers said:
Gizamo - I am delighted that you like that article. The latest "Journal of Military History" [Oct. 2010] has an article of mine on Timothy Murphy at Saratoga. In that article I believe I conclusively prove that Murphy did not kill Simon Fraser. I traced the "history" of the Murphy story and unfortunately it originated in the 1850's - in his own lifetime Murphy was not credited with making the shot. Historians have simply parrotted the Murphy story for 150 years. Also, there is the question of ballistics of a roundball at great distances and the unsurmountable problems with making such a shot which apparently had not been considered before.
But! History is never set in stone - it is constantly evolving as new information comes to light or we see old information in new ways.
Hugh Harrington
Click to expand...


Hugh, I'll have to find a copy and buy one....:)

Can't wait to read the article...thanks!
 
Journal of Military History is subscription only. But, you might find it in a library or get a librarian to get you the article on inter-library loan. The title is "The Other Mystery Shot of the American Revolution: Did Timothy Murphy Kill British Brigadier General Simon Fraser at Saratoga." it's pages 1037-1045. It is October 2010, Vol. 74, No. 4.
I hope you enjoy it.
 
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