UNBELIEVABLE: $1200 OF JUNK FROM THE PC

Status
Not open for further replies.
bountyhunter said:
No offense, but that's a giant crock. The measure of quality is what they deliver. If you ordered a new Lexus and it showed up with body damage, and internal engine problems and the guy said:

"Don't worry...... the body shop will fix that and we'll tear the engine down and see if we can fix it..."

Are you going to be singing their praises? Hell, no. It amazes me that people want to nominate SW for sainthood if they fix a gun that should have never shipped that way in the first place. This isn't a HIDDEN defect, it's an obvious defect anybody who is not legally blind would have seen.

I worked in industry for 33 years, and this crap is the result of "ship it or else" mentality and also a result of laying off the smart people who care and replacing them with bozos who work cheap. Why should we tolerate such shoddy workmanship in guns when we would not tolerate in any other product?
Click to expand...

+100, Bounty.

After MANY years of abstaining from purchasing a gun with the "Hillary Hole" in it, I finally caved this fall, and bought a brand-new 649 for another carry gun; after the cursory 5-minute de-lock surgery (absolutely essential for a concealed carry piece, at least in my book), and initial cleaning and lube before it's first range session, it was glaringly obvious that the metal parts fit & finish (especially near the yoke/frame junction, the sideplate/frame junction, and the forcing cone) was substandard for what a $600 S&W J-Frame should be. The overall polish of the gun wasn't anything to write home about, either. I really didn't care with this piece, as it would be a full-time carry gun, it will most probably be sent to Clark for a moon-clip conversion (another essential for a concealed carry revolver, again in my book), and would get the inevitable nicks/dings/etc. THAT being said, I'M the one that should be putting any blemishes on that revolver, NOT assembly/QC/QA at S&W, and ESPECIALLY not for THAT price.

Gunbroker and local FFL transfers are just TOO EASY to get the old, high-quality S&W revolvers I crave. I think it's a crying shame that guns leave their factory on a regular basis (if you can believe all the bad things one reads on the forums), from such a distinguished, old company, that built their reputation on ultra-high quality and fantastic aesthetics.

I don't have any plans in the future for purchasing any new Smiths, but maybe if they got rid of that hole, and polished 'em up a little more.... :D

649Guy
 
tomcatt51 said:
Seems this turned into an awfull lot of whining over a trigger lever, that in the scheme of things is pretty minor.
Click to expand...

My point... exactly. But after seeing all the responses... I feel ok about my post and think maybe BH just needs to chill... and refrain from twisting reality. I wouldn't own a Lexus... :)
Happy Holidays,
 
bounty. Don't let the jerks push your buttons. They are enjoying it too much.
 
RGPM1A said:
bounty. Don't let the jerks push your buttons. They are enjoying it too much.
Click to expand...
Yes. We're jerks if we disagree. If you assume that everyone that posts here knows what they're talking about you're in trouble. There are plenty of things we can dis-agree about, but there are alot of mechanical issues that are pretty cut and dried. The yoke endshake vs cyl endshake on the older guns comes to mind as a bone of contention. Another thing I can't understand is the difference between backing out the strain screw and shortening it. I do think there are limits before you screw up the spring ends link geometry. I assume that's why the reduced power Wolff mainsprings have more arch, being other wise the same.

Let me quote Bountyhunter: "Well, as a final salute I nicked my finger on the razor sharp metal on the edges of the forcing cone.... it seems, somebody took a hand file to the back of the cone to "set" the barrel cylinder gap and left the wonderful results."

Sorry but they've been done that way for at least 30 yrs. The oldest S&W revolver I have in possession is a 10-8 from ~1980. It was clearly filed and the barrel still has sharp edges.
 
not that it means much, but i have to side w/bh on this thread.
when the dust has settled, he is the one that was right and some of you guys did your best to discredit him, but his remarks on the issue were spot on.
for the money and because of the company's reputation, the product should be right, out of the box, not after a fix, no matter how good they did it the second time around.
 
ralph7 said:
for the money and because of the company's reputation, the product should be right, out of the box, not after a fix, no matter how good they did it the second time around.
Click to expand...

NO companies product is always perfect as delivered. If they were there would be no need for warranties.
 
RAIPH I SEE THAT THAT YOU ARE HEADED TOWARD 60 YEARS AGE, MY SELF PAST 60,I WOULD GUESS MOST OF THE FOLKS DISAPPOINTED WITH S&W PRODUCTS RECALL A TIME WHEN YOUR WORK WAS A REFLECTION ON YOU PERSONALLY WHICH WAS GOOD FOR YOU & YOUR COMPANY.WE LIVE IN TIME WHERE THE STANDARDS HAVE CHANGED.
 
ralph7 said:
not that it means much, but i have to side w/bh on this thread.
when the dust has settled, he is the one that was right and some of you guys did your best to discredit him, but his remarks on the issue were spot on.
for the money and because of the company's reputation, the product should be right, out of the box, not after a fix, no matter how good they did it the second time around.
Click to expand...

I agree, these problems are becoming the rule rather than the exception.
No excuse for this shoddy work from the PC. :mad:

augy
 
I feel your pain BountyHunter . When I was a dealer I ordered myself a new 627 ( 1st generation ) . Right out of the box the cylinder would not open unless you put both thumbs on the release button and pushed with all your might . Since we had a factory S&W service center here in town I gave it to them to correct the problem . They called the next day and said they can't figure out what was causing the problem .So I sent it back to the factory and 3 weeks later get it back exactly the same .
Being really pissed now I send a certified letter to the president of S&W telling him whats going on . 4 days later I get a call from the head of the service department asking for the gun back and that he would personally walk it through and make sure it's 100% .
2 weeks later it came back perfect .
How this gun got past the final inspection the first time I'll never know .
 
This reminds me of the threads from the initial release of the M&P 15-22, it was horrid and there are still problems to this day with these guns. Ive saved up about half the money I need for a 629 stealth hunter this year, but I dont want to buy a gun and have to send it right back in for repairs. :confused: I know there are always a few bad apples in the bunch but its becoming increasingly popular with our beloved S&W's.
 
Lost love for Smith..

I understand and agree with BH's position and comments. For a fact S&W in recent history has produced poor quality firearms at any price, let alone being incredibly overpriced. Customer service should not be a major consideration because the product is expected to function and be of quality equal to the price paid. Older S&W are rivaled only by Colt, in my opinion. I have older S&W's and they are sooo fine. My most recent experience was when a gun clerk handed me a new 44 magnum and said, "check out the trigger...it is really smoth". I checked it out and it was crap. My 29-2 trigger melts when pulled, the new gun was rough, not smooth pulling at all and it felt like a bunch of parts being crammed into a funnel.
Therfore, Smith and Wesson, for those of us who grew up shooting them years ago, and loved them, they have become a whore of the corporate world and the end user has been betrayed. Love has turned to betrayal.
 
Jswiney9 said:
This reminds me of the threads from the initial release of the M&P 15-22, it was horrid and there are still problems to this day with these guns. Ive saved up about half the money I need for a 629 stealth hunter this year, but I dont want to buy a gun and have to send it right back in for repairs. :confused: I know there are always a few bad apples in the bunch but its becoming increasingly popular with our beloved S&W's.
Click to expand...


you will love the 629 stealth hunter from the performance center...i have had mine for several months and it really shoots...excellent gun!
 
Tango 106 said:
I understand and agree with BH's position and comments. For a fact S&W in recent history has produced poor quality firearms at any price, let alone being incredibly overpriced. Customer service should not be a major consideration because the product is expected to function and be of quality equal to the price paid. Older S&W are rivaled only by Colt, in my opinion. I have older S&W's and they are sooo fine. My most recent experience was when a gun clerk handed me a new 44 magnum and said, "check out the trigger...it is really smoth". I checked it out and it was crap. My 29-2 trigger melts when pulled, the new gun was rough, not smooth pulling at all and it felt like a bunch of parts being crammed into a funnel.
Therfore, Smith and Wesson, for those of us who grew up shooting them years ago, and loved them, they have become a whore of the corporate world and the end user has been betrayed. Love has turned to betrayal.
Click to expand...


dont reckon there is a new S&W on your christmas list huh?:eek::eek::D
 
Tango 106 said:
I understand and agree with BH's position and comments. For a fact S&W in recent history has produced poor quality firearms at any price, let alone being incredibly overpriced. Customer service should not be a major consideration because the product is expected to function and be of quality equal to the price paid. Older S&W are rivaled only by Colt, in my opinion. I have older S&W's and they are sooo fine. My most recent experience was when a gun clerk handed me a new 44 magnum and said, "check out the trigger...it is really smoth". I checked it out and it was crap. My 29-2 trigger melts when pulled, the new gun was rough, not smooth pulling at all and it felt like a bunch of parts being crammed into a funnel.
Therfore, Smith and Wesson, for those of us who grew up shooting them years ago, and loved them, they have become a whore of the corporate world and the end user has been betrayed. Love has turned to betrayal.
Click to expand...


a gun,like any mechanical device (new or not so new) can malfunction...if you look back to your april posting the 29-2 that you mention was not so smooth at all...in fact there was a....malfunction :eek: of one of the older one's!i guess there were "corporate problems" back in the 29-2 days :D:eek:
 
kennyb, the problem with my 29-2, when resolved was the result of a previous owner trying to do some freelance "custom" work. As far as christmas I do have a new to me model 15-2 U.S.A.F. waiting to be unwrapped. What has gotten a lot of former s&w fans to revolt is the relentless crap shoot of weather or not the gun you by new nowadays is going to work or send it back to factory to be "fixed". That is nonsense! And to add insult to injury is the price of the guns. A few of the reasons I feel this way is because a 586 nickle gun I bought new for duty service in the 80's. Within one week the nickle began to peel off the cylinder, the model 10-? new, that shot 4 inches low and to the left, or a model 19 that the cylinder froze in and by forcing it open the yoke was bent so it went to s&w to be repaired...it left with a very bright deep blue job and came back with a dull black finish, or the new 686 that shot groups the size of your ego..or the new 442 that the frame cracked on under the barrel, or the model 28 that shot 3 foot groups at 25 yards until the factory "adjusted the sight"-right,these are but a small number of the experiences that I have had since the mid 1980's with s&w of the new age. Prices for their products are way too high for the lack of consistent quality that they used to be known for.
 
Again, I have my opinion, no ill content, just sharing like everyone else here. I happen to have quite a bit of experience the last year with S&W having purchased no less than 6 new handguns, 2 mp-15's, including the MP15-22, TRD325 revolver, PC Model 945 and another used PC-945, MP-45fs,40fs,40c, and 9c.... have they been perfect... pretty close. Our 15-22 and M&P's have thousands of rounds through them... love it, my 3" 945 from the PC, was not perfect, but has been since I broke it down after my 1st outing when it did not perform properly, I found a metal burr on the side of the back side of the barrel, knocked it off and it has been perfect. Now for 1700.00 I was not happy.... did I make a big ole scene over it... no, I enjoyed taking it down, learning how it all worked and fixing it myself. If I couldn't figure it out, I would have returned it for repair. Not go out and bash S&W without so much as giving them an opportunity to make it right. You say they have slipped.... MAYBE SO, TIMES HAVE CHANGED, IT'S NOT 1955 AND THE U.S. IS KING OF THE HILL... this new global economy has hit home, and quite frankly, it sucks. S&W is doing what it can to stay in business and I believe they are doing all they can to give us a great product at the best price and still remain profitable. Slam them some more, lets all just stop buying their product so we can have more of our family and friends lose their jobs so you can buy a new Sig or whatever other import you think is the answer at double the money. Yes, I have no complaints with the products I have purchased from Smith this past year, was everything perfect... no, but dang it, it was pretty darn good. Oh ya, we did purchase a new Sig, it sucks... com=pared to our other guns, maybe I should go to the sig forum and bash Sig for the problems I had with their Mosquito... enough, I could go on and on to explain who I am, why I think and say what I share, but who really cares. I have a small shop and making it in this economy is not easy, I feel for other companies when I believe they are being unfairly bashed. As you see, I will respond and defend...
 
Not at all slighting the original posters problem with his new S&W I think he has every right to be upset but not all the old Smiths where perfect either, my 17-4 had a very stiff double action pull, probably 14-16 pounds. I had a gunsmith do an trigger job and a general tuneup and it is now sweet. A friend of mine bought a K-22 from the late 40s that was in brand new condition I doubt it had been fired outside of the factory and the double action trigger feels like a pepper grinder, he does not want to take it apart for fear of dinging the side plate. On the other hand my father has a war surplus M&P that the trigger pull is just amazing and it came that way from the factory. I do think there has always been a little "variation" in the quality of the fitting of the parts. That being said I do think the parts of the older smiths are of better material and I don't like the MIM triggers. Of course I am not a metalirgest (spelling) or a gunsmith and I need many more Smiths to make my opinion more accurate;)
 
Just to add my two cents. One of the few S&W's I bought new was a Walther PPK/s-1. The trigger began slipping after about 70 rounds. I had my dealer send it back and waited over a month. When it came back, it had the same problem as before. The trigger bar would slip, preventing the hammer from firing. I called "Walther" (S&W) customer service and asked for a new trigger bar. The guy said I had to return the gun for repair. I installed an Interarms trigger bar and the gun worked fine after that. I eventually sold the gun because I got upset every time I saw it. I've owned about ten PPK/s & PP models over the years, and, IMHO the S&W versions are the worst. I'm still a huge fan of the older Smith guns, but I have to think hard and long before buying another new one.

I can understand guns breaking. All things mechanical are prone to break in one way or another. But, they should really take their repairs seriously.
 
I think when you spend $1200 on a gun from the custom shop of a manufacturer, you expect a near perfect and well made firearm right out of the box. I would be very upset if I were the OP and I think he has every right to vent his frustrations here. Should we just go on blind and dumb to the quality of the current S&W product line? I don't think so. I can look at any of my pre-'82 Smiths and see a big difference in craftsmanship and quality to what I see new on store shelves these days. Do I like S&W? Yes. Do I wish them success? Yes. But I will never own one of their internal lock revolvers and the recent problems with their polymer guns, and their failure to recall the 15-22 and early BG380s, has me looking elsewhere for my firearms purchases.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Back
Top