317 Heading Back Again

[mchech]

Finally I got a chance to fire my repaired 317 kit gun the other day. They had installed a new cylinder, cylinder rod and extractor. The results were not what I expected.

I fired about 65 rds. of CCI Standard Velocity and CCI Blazers 22 lr. All shots were taken in single action. After the first 2 cylinders full the cocking of the hammer became difficult. I did not fire the gun so fast as to heat it up to the point of causing any problem. 4 times the hammer refused to go into the cocked position and I had to use much force to open the cylinder. I noticed several scratches/rub marks in the powder residue on the cylinder face when I opened the gun. I didn't try firing in double action because of the obvious variations in pressure needed to cock the hammer in single action. All empties extracted from the cylinder fine with little or no sticking.

So after a call to S&W I will box it up and call FedX for a pickup. I remain upbeat about this revolver. It fits my needs perfectly. Out of the dozen or so S&W revolvers I own or have owned this is the first lemon. I plan on making lemonade because this gun is going to keep going back for repairs until they get it right! Perhaps this is why this little revolver costs over $600....to cover FedX shipping costs?

 

[Maximumbob54]

I'm developing a real disliking of alloy frame revolvers. The luck of the draw on if you get one that keeps working is really getting to me. Cracked frames and rough actions aren't what S&W is supposed to be known for. They may be making box loads of these guns but I am sending my Airweight back for a cracked frame, I have found two more in LGS's with cracked frames, and I hear this kind of story about 317's often enough that with my bad luck I'm staying away from them.

 

[photoman]

I'm developing a real disliking of alloy frame revolvers. The luck of the draw on if you get one that keeps working is really getting to me. Cracked frames and rough actions aren't what S&W is supposed to be known for. They may be making box loads of these guns but I am sending my Airweight back for a cracked frame, I have found two more in LGS's with cracked frames, and I hear this kind of story about 317's often enough that with my bad luck I'm staying away from them.

You're saying that you've found three new Airweights in local gun stores with cracked frames?

 

[Maximumbob54]

You're saying that you've found three new Airweights in local gun stores with cracked frames?

1 - My own 637-2
+
2 Found in LGS's
=
My new found fear of alloy framed guns...

I liked the look of one of the aluminum kit guns whatever the model number is of the one with the same basic design as the 317 but with the longer barrel and fiber optic sight but opening the cylinder was very tight and pulling the hammer back felt like the hammer was rubbing against the frame. I gave it back and moved on. I like the idea of a no lock 442 but I'm not sure I want to keep on with this rolling the dice feeling. I want a gun I'm not worried in the back of my mind about wearing out with training. Sure, it can be sent back, but that isn't something I feel like having to deal with. Maybe I just have rotten luck.

 

[mchech]

I'm developing a real disliking of alloy frame revolvers. The luck of the draw on if you get one that keeps working is really getting to me. Cracked frames and rough actions aren't what S&W is supposed to be known for. They may be making box loads of these guns but I am sending my Airweight back for a cracked frame, I have found two more in LGS's with cracked frames, and I hear this kind of story about 317's often enough that with my bad luck I'm staying away from them.

I've been developing an itch for a lightweight 357. I think I will take a couple aspirin and hope it goes away. Never the less, S&W WILL fix my 317 because it is going to keep going back till they do it right.

 

[Maximumbob54]

I can tell you that my 640 is all stainless and it is still a handfull with real magnums. Like a hard to practice with handfull. With the Pachmayr Compac I can manage but you add quite a bit of bulk with that stock. I stick with .38's in it now. Trying to rapid fire into a close in target was comical with magnums. I should have been kicked off the range it was so bad. That was what made me change to the Compac... That and the throbbing in my hand on the way home...

 

[photoman]

1 - My own 637-2
+
2 Found in LGS's
=
My new found fear of alloy framed guns...

I liked the look of one of the aluminum kit guns whatever the model number is of the one with the same basic design as the 317 but with the longer barrel and fiber optic sight but opening the cylinder was very tight and pulling the hammer back felt like the hammer was rubbing against the frame. I gave it back and moved on. I like the idea of a no lock 442 but I'm not sure I want to keep on with this rolling the dice feeling. I want a gun I'm not worried in the back of my mind about wearing out with training. Sure, it can be sent back, but that isn't something I feel like having to deal with. Maybe I just have rotten luck.

That's amazing. I've been shopping/buying .38 Airweights for about five years now and have never seen one with a cracked frame. Maybe you should go buy a lottery ticket!

I will agree with you regarding the rimfire Airweight J frames. I've never bought one because (1) they are crazy high priced and (2) all of them I have looked at had rough actions and didn't operate (cylinder open/close etc.) smoothly.

 

[Sportsterguy]

I've been developing an itch for a lightweight 357. I think I will take a couple aspirin and hope it goes away. Never the less, S&W WILL fix my 317 because it is going to keep going back till they do it right.

Or better yet. Demand a new one. I know I would if I were in your shoes.

 

[Gebe]

So sorry to hear about your troubles with your 317. I'm glad I bought mine back in the 1990's, (1999), as I've heard a lot of bad experiences with the newer ones when they switched to the HiViz sights.

When I first started shooting mine, the cylinder was extremely tight especially after shooting and the rounds were fairly hard to eject. It loosened up over time.

I don't blame you about sending it back until they get it right. What a hassle but YES, make them GET IT RIGHT!

If no one complains when they get a gun that's not up to one's expectations, they'll just keep producing them.

 

[mchech]

Or better yet. Demand a new one. I know I would if I were in your shoes.

Unfortunately the research I have done on the 317 Kit Gun since April indicates this is not all that uncommon a problem with this model. One would think S&W has figured the problems out and could readily repair it. After all the 317 does not shoot a high pressure round at 1100 rpm. or a cartridge as big as your thumb like a 500 S&W. Also I believe the repair guy should do his thing then shoot a box of 22's out of the gun. It was obvious this was not done the first time it was repaired since the second cylinder full started showing the same problem. Test firing has to be cheaper than all this FedX shipping.

I will give S&W this second chance at repairing my gun before I get nasty. If they fail to fix it this time that makes strike 3 and I sure don't want another 317.

 

[snubbiefan]

Sorry to hear about your 317. I have two that have never done a thing but shoot. I guess it's just the luck-of-the-draw. Good Luck.

 

[Tom C]

Sorry to hear about your problems with your 317. My 317 has gone back to the factory twice for a new cylinder because the barrel cylinder gap was uneven and produced a gas jet that eroded the face of the cylinder. The last time it went back, they put in a new barrel and a stainless cylinder. Mine seems to be fine now. It did pick up a couple of oz. of weight with the steel cylinder.

I use Pachmayr Gripper grips on my J frames. They are bulky, but with my big hands they work very well. They are the only thing that makes shooting the aluminum frame .357s possible for me. With the Pachmayrs they are a handful. With the factory grips they are down right painful.

 

[inFALable]

I'm on my second 317. I traded my snub for a early 3" model. Both of mine have functioned perfectly although the snub didn't shoot point to aim with anything. My 3"er will shoot 2" or smaller groups all day at 25 yards. Good triggers on each but they are early ones.

 

[mchech]

Sorry to hear about your problems with your 317. My 317 has gone back to the factory twice for a new cylinder because the barrel cylinder gap was uneven and produced a gas jet that eroded the face of the cylinder. The last time it went back, they put in a new barrel and a stainless cylinder. Mine seems to be fine now. It did pick up a couple of oz. of weight with the steel cylinder.

I use Pachmayr Gripper grips on my J frames. They are bulky, but with my big hands they work very well. They are the only thing that makes shooting the aluminum frame .357s possible for me. With the Pachmayrs they are a handful. With the factory grips they are down right painful.

I've got an old 37 that wears a large pair of Pachmayrs. The fit is fine for my likes. In fact my new 317 is tasked with replacing the 37 for woods walking and such. The 37 will be retired to bedroom night stand duty. I do like the original grips that came on the Kit Gun. The boot grips on my 442 & 642 are ok but not as comfortable to me. I am not trying to hide the 3" barreled Kit Gun when outdoors hoofing the woods. When it comes to cc my 442 is hard to beat.

Heck I even like the fiber optic front sight because it's very easy for my old eyes to pick up and line up. I had no trouble busting lumps of charcoal at 25' whilst fighting the stubborn trigger and cylinder. The only thing I don't like about the 317 is the fact that S&W didn't spend the time to fit this Kit Gun up properly.........twice!

 

[snubbiefan]

Tom C....let me make sure I understand. You say S&W installed a stainless steel cylinder in your 317? Not doubting your word, but having a stainless steel version of that 8-shot cylinder may come in real handy one day.

If they could be had from S&W....I plan to try and get me a couple just for keeps. I have two 317's.

 

[Hondo44]

Tom C....let me make sure I understand. You say S&W installed a stainless steel cylinder in your 317? Not doubting your word, but having a stainless steel version of that 8-shot cylinder may come in real handy one day.

If they could be had from S&W....I plan to try and get me a couple just for keeps. I have two 317's.

I think that's a great idea! The alloy cylinders for an often fired gun has never given me a lot of confidence. I have a 296 44 spl Scandium gun with Ti cylinder. All the warnings about being careful not to clean it too much and risk wearing off the coating which is part of the strength of the Ti cylinders made me uncertain about its longevity. So I bought a new SS cylinder made for the 696 from Smith. Added a few ounces to the weight but a couple of pounds of confidence and tamed the recoil a bit as well.

 

[snubbiefan]

I know lots of us do lots of research and sometimes...come to varying conclusions. I had done a lot of research on the 317 B4 I bought the ones I have and came to the conclusion they were good little guns and mine have been. I have a 38-special by another name, that is an ultra lite with an alloy frame, but a SS barrel and cylinder, which is a good compromise and weighs-in at around 17 ounces as opposed to the all steel version at 26 ounces.

I have e-mailed Smith to confirm such an animal exist and if an SS 8-shot cylinder can be had....I'll make a post here when I get an answer. If they had one for Tom C...I can't imagine they would do a one-of to fix his as opposed to simply giving him a new gun. We'll see as soon as I get an answer.

I have read here on this very forum where guys have put thousands of rounds through this aluminum cylinders without issue, which is way more than I will ever shoot, so I am not so concerned about them. It would be nice to have an SS option though.

 

[Hondo44]

The only thing I don't like about the 317 is the fact that S&W didn't spend the time to fit this Kit Gun up properly.........twice!

You didn't say what the original problem was in your 1st post but I gather from your above post it was the same thing. I hate to see anyone go thru this but any company producing so many thousands of guns will have issues some times; usually poor human workmanship. This was proved by the gun coming back with the same problem!

I don't know if you work on your own guns at all. But I have too many Smiths that are superior and at times the 'better part of valor' for such a small thing, is fixing it yourself but still lodge a written complaint. The barrel/cylinder gap is obviously too tight. The marks where it rubs on the front of the cylinder tell you exactly which part of the barrel throat has too tight of a gap. I would be very comfortable spending two minutes of attention with a fine flat file to solve your problem. Of course it's the principle of the issue that S&W failed to get it right, AGAIN! But I try not to add hassle to my life just for a small principle; only large ones.

But that's just me, I don't like to be w/o my guns and two minutes versus an hour or whatever to package up, wait for pickup and delivery, etc., is more time on the range or at the loading bench for me. Plus I have the satisfaction of getting it right myself.

 

[Hondo44]

I have e-mailed Smith to confirm such an animal exist and if an SS 8-shot cylinder can be had....I'll make a post here when I get an answer. If they had one for Tom C...I can't imagine they would do a one-of to fix his as opposed to simply giving him a new gun. We'll see as soon as I get an answer.

I have read here on this very forum where guys have put thousands of rounds through this aluminum cylinders without issue, which is way more than I will ever shoot, so I am not so concerned about them. It would be nice to have an SS option though.

An 8 shot 22 LR SS cylinder definitely exists and is in fact still used in current production Model 63s. However I'm very surprised at the prospect of installing one on a repair order in a 317 that only came with alloy cylinders.

 

[Maximumbob54]

Add to my post above that I found a Model 12 this afternoon with a HUGE crack in the frame under the barrel. They didn't like the idea of me taking a picture... Can't say I blame them. But this makes four now in less than a month. I'm starting to think this is a bigger problem than we may think it is. I say we as in myself and everyone reading this, I'm not a royal "we"... Although, I have been told I can be a royal pain in the