Open Carry

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You are asking some exicitable idiot to start screaming "help police, he's got a gun" The same police will have you 'splaing yourself all day. (and maybe half the night, legal or not)

Also your dareing some drunk or other trouble maker to either start a fight or try to steal/take that gun.

And finaly, why give up your big advantage over the BG's ? Which is of course suprise.

Around here, the police would just ask what trouble is the armed person causing. They would come more close to charging the complaintant.

An intoxicated person should not be around one with a gun. A drunk will get arrested for public intoxication. If the armed person is in a bar, then he will go to jail as well.

People put up all kinds of arguments to promote CC but there are few legitimate reasons against OC.

This is an upper middle size city with several colleges, lots of million dollar homes, a dozen large hospitals, many museums and over 1400 area LEO. You will see lawyers, doctors, druggists, truck drivers and others openly carrying. Nobody pays attention since it has always been done but moreso the gun is seldom noticed. The people carry discreetly.
 
<snip>......And finaly, why give up your big advantage over the BG's ? Which is of course suprise.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain this line of thought. On it's face, I really think folks tend to believe this, but it doesn't stand up to much scrutiny.

Your conclusion, by necessity, forces the person contemplating the question to suppose that he/she has already come under attack, thus the assumed "element of surprise" when he/she all of the sudden draws his/her gun from some hidden holster, makes several well-placed shots, and saves the day sending the BG to the hospital and perhaps an early grave.

But this doesn't work out so well when we add reality into the mix. First, we have to assume that a BG has chosen the person carrying the concealed firearm to victimize. Yes, it could happen, but then we have to ask, would it have happened at all if the person would have been openly carrying the firearm, rather than having it hid away? Would the BG have taken the risk in the first place, or would the BG have seen the openly carried gun and moved on to, what appeared to be, a softer target? The very small number of incidents in which a openly carrying citizen has been attacked tend to suggest that BG's are much more likely to move on and find a softer target, rather than attempting to victimize the person whom the KNOW has a gun and could possibly cause them severe injury or death.

Next, we must also assume that the person carrying the concealed firearm, if attacked by a BG, will actually be able to access, present, and subsequently fire his/her weapon in the midst of this attack. Will they have the time? Will they have the physical ability? Will they have the presence of mind? I'm not sure how much close-quarters force-on-force training you've taken part in or watched, but in my experience, the person who comes under attack will generally have to fight his/her way to the gun, if they get a chance to use it at all. If, God forbid, the gun is in a purse, it's an even harder task. In these situations, calling the "element of surprise" a "big advantage" over your attacker is more along the lines of "wishful thinking" rather than tactical reality.

Finally, we must assume that the element of surprise is, indeed, a "big advantage" over the BG. In other words, we are anticipating the attack, waiting for it to happen, and then at just the right moment, we're pulling the gun out from it's hidden location as if to say, "AH HAH! YOU WEREN'T EXPECTING THIS, WERE YOU!"..... I don't believe this really stands up to reality. In the first place, if we are anticipating an attack, why in the world would we stand around and wait for it to happen? I don't know about you, but gun or no gun, I'm going to try to make a hasty retreat! Secondly, if it's too late for a retreat and we now realize the attack is inevitable, why in the world would we wait to access and present our firearm? I want that gun in my hand as soon as I know that it's going to be needed because I want to try to eliminate having to "fight my way to it" if at all possible. This, of course, removes any "element of surprise" and if we're lucky, sends the BG running the other way when he sees it.

There are a number of valid reasons why I could see a person not wanting to open carry, but this one doesn't really hold water. I generally don't open carry primarily because it's doesn't work well for my line of work, and because Missouri has a hodge-podge system of local ordinances that restrict/prohibit OC making it a daunting task to know where it is or isn't legal, depending on the jurisdiction you are in. That said, there are a number of folks around this state who don't mind researching those local ordinances and being very careful about which side of the street they are on when they open carry. I don't begrudge them that. They have a right to carry their firearm any way they choose, as long as they do it in accordance with the law, and my opinion of them or the reasons why they choose to carry one way or another is entirely irrelevant. When the people opposed to open carry, for whatever reason, resort to childish name calling, making up lies, and spreading disinformation, I believe they invite others to call their support for the 2nd Amendment and their patriotism into question.
 
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. I also suggest dressing cleancut and wearing a leather hip-holster, to the untrained civilian, you might seem like an off duty............. and draw a little less attention.

Joe Friday died a long time ago. Don't know about the rest of this country but most of the officers I know have tats, earrings, and dress ultra casual. In fact, they're quite the opposite of the Joe Friday look.
 
I've told this story before but then again we’ve had this discussion before also. In the late 1970s and early 1980s I managed Exxon Stations in Columbus, Ohio. One station was at the corner 5th and Olentangy and there was a string of robberies taking place along 5th. After thinking it over I started carrying a 1911A1 in a belt slide holster on the theory I wanted a “visual deterrent”.

One Saturday morning I had just opened up and started to drink a cup of coffee when two young men in their late teens walked in to the station. They looked at me, looked around, looked at the pistol and walked across the street to the BP station.

A few minutes later I get a phone call from the BP station making sure I was OK. The two had walked across the street and robbed them at gunpoint. Of course later the police stopped by wanting descriptions and asked if I had been carrying the pistol when the two stopped by. The Officers said that while they could not officially endorse carrying a firearm in this case it probably worked out.

And another thing. I ALWAYS kept a pot of coffee on and every EMT, LEO or Fireman knew they could stop by anytime for a free cup. Contrary to what some think this was NOT bribery or favoritism of any type. I wanted anyone casing the place to know that Uniforms stopped in at random times during the day and night. Coffee was cheap if it kept a potential attacker guessing.
 
I open carry and wave the flag too

Cute outfit Boz.....er I mean Ladder13, but you are still anti-2A, of questionable mental capacity and spreading lies and disinformation and I bet you wont even hug childrun neither so you are a bad clown :p

I know what you are thinking; "that's the pot calling the kettle black" :D
 
One Saturday morning I had just opened up and started to drink a cup of coffee when two young men in their late teens walked in to the station. They looked at me, looked around, looked at the pistol and walked across the street to the BP station.

A few minutes later I get a phone call from the BP station making sure I was OK. The two had walked across the street and robbed them at gunpoint. Of course later the police stopped by wanting descriptions and asked if I had been carrying the pistol when the two stopped by. The Officers said that while they could not officially endorse carrying a firearm in this case it probably worked out.
Goodness you're lucky those guys didn't jump you and take your firearm after they saw it arrogantly displayed.:D

Or. Maybe they didn't see your gun but pondered quietly about the possibility you could have a concealed firearm and chose another target that seemed slightly less capable of possibly having a concealed firearm. :rolleyes:
 
Goodness you're lucky those guys didn't jump you and take your firearm after they saw it arrogantly displayed.:D

Or. Maybe they didn't see your gun but pondered quietly about the possibility you could have a concealed firearm and chose another target that seemed slightly less capable of possibly having a concealed firearm. :rolleyes:

I'm sure it was the smell of brewing coffee that made the crooks think twice, NOT the openly carried 1911. Nobody wants to have a steaming hot cup of coffee splashed in their face.
 
I'm sure it was the smell of brewing coffee that made the crooks think twice, NOT the openly carried 1911. Nobody wants to have a steaming hot cup of coffee splashed in their face.
Dang, I missed that possibility.:o Assault coffee!!

The only thing we know for sure is that the openly displayed citizen owned handgun was absolutely, 100%, not the reason they decided to hit the other station.
 
Dang, I missed that possibility.:o Assault coffee!!

The only thing we know for sure is that the openly displayed citizen owned handgun was absolutely, 100%, not the reason they decided to hit the other station.

Correct. In fact, that openly carried firearm probably caused the crime rate to go UP in that neighborhood. I doubt those two thugs had any intention at all of committing a robbery, until they saw that 1911. That, combined with the fear of having hot coffee thrown in their faces, was enough to drive those clowns over the edge!
 
was enough to drive those clowns over the edge!

I take it you are calling the model citizens who decided the place across the street looked more welcoming for their business endeavors the clowns, and not the guy who was scaring women and little children and some grown men with such a blatant display of individual rights, as to have the nerve to be wearing an openly displayed firearm in his place of business.

I think I am right with this analysis of your post, but with the way "clown" has been used recently in this thread I just wanted to make sure. :rolleyes: ;) :D

bob
 
In all seriousness I was not that familiar with cartridge handguns at the time although I had owned a little IJ topbreak for years. There was a series of robberies where after getting the money they took the manager in back and shot them.

I discussed the situation with a small LGS and told him I was looking for something to open carry and I wanted something simple that would say "You may get me, but I'm taking you with me." He suggested either a 1917 S&W or a 1911A1. After handling them both I went with the 1911A1 because it was flatter and seemed easier to carry. Every Thursday night I would go to the local indoor range and fire 100 rds in practice, then I would go home and reload those 100 rounds using a Lee hand loader in preparation for the next week. I carried it with 1960's US issue ball ammo the dealer gave me. I OCed the 1911A1 because I wanted a visual deterrent. Business all around us were robbed at various times but we never were. Broke into once, but never robbed. In my mind OC worked and I still have that 1911A1. To show my ignorance at the time, before talking to this particular dealer I almost bought a Charter Arms Undercover instead. They were about the same price as the surplus 1917s and 1911A1s at the time and seemed easier to carry.

I
 
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I take it you are calling the model citizens who decided the place across the street looked more welcoming for their business endeavors the clowns, and not the guy who was scaring women and little children and some grown men with such a blatant display of individual rights, as to have the nerve to be wearing an openly displayed firearm in his place of business.

Yes, those model citizens that were forced, by the traumatic experience of seeing a gun, to become criminals.

I think I am right with this analysis of your post, but with the way "clown" has been used recently in this thread I just wanted to make sure. :rolleyes: ;) :D

bob

You are free to place the shoe on any foot it will fit........... ;)
 
In all seriousness I was not that familiar with cartridge handguns at the time although I had owned a little IJ topbreak for years. There was a series of robberies where after getting the money they took the manager in back and shot them.

I discussed the situation with a small LGS and told him I was looking for something to open carry and I wanted something simple that would say "You may get me, but I'm taking you with me." He suggested either a 1917 S&W or a 1911A1. After handling them both I went with the 1911A1 because it was flatter and seemed easier to carry. Every Thursday night I would go to the local indoor range and fire 100 rds in practice, then I would go home and reload those 100 rounds using a Lee hand loader in preparation for the next week. I carried it with 1960's US issue ball ammo the dealer gave me. I OCed the 1911A1 because I wanted a visual deterrent. Business all around us were robbed at various times but we never were. Broke into once, but never robbed. In my mind OC worked and I still have that 1911A1. To show my ignorance at the time, before talking to this particular dealer I almost bought a Charter Arms Undercover instead. They were about the same price as the surplus 1917s and 1911A1s at the time and seemed easier to carry.

I

Hmmm, that's kind of strange. That gun should have made you MORE likely to be robbed.
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But in all seriousness, your story is much more consistent with reality than what the antis would have us believe.
 
But in all seriousness, your story is much more consistent with reality than what the antis would have us believe.

Believe me, I have no regrets that my visual deterrent worked. The one time I came close to pulling it in self defense I didn't and I've been forever glad I didn't. I came back in from waiting on customer and found a guy with his hand in the till. I yelled at him and he stuck his hand in his pocket and said he was taking the money.

I don't know why but my reaction was to hit him in the stomach as hard as I could. I yelled to my coworker to call the police and while the guy was still gasping I patted him down, no gun or knife. We struggled a little when he got his wind back because he still was trying to leave but he soon gave up. I could tell by the way he was acting something was not quite right with him, he didn't seem to have much strength. After I took a chair away from him that he tried to hit me with he sat in the corner waiting for the police.

The police arrived quickly and professionally, as expected. They informed me that he was a well known petty thief from a local sheltered workshop. Wasn't much they could do because if they took him in the judge would just let him go. So they gave me my cash back, too k him back to the workshop and that was it, I thought.

A few weeks latter I see the same guy walking towards the station with a handgun in his hand. Before he gets too far on the lot two cruisers pull in and a Sgt with a shotgun yells at him to drop the gun. The man turned and aimed the handgun at the officer. The officer makes the perfect riot gun shot, pellets hit the pavement about 8' in front of the man, the pellets ricochet up and sweep the mans legs out from under him. Man falls, handgun goes spinning, officers pounce and cuff him, ambulance is called.

Turned out the guy had a starter pistol and was walking down the street shooting at cars, but the officers had no way of knowing it was just a starter pistol. They had received a report of an intoxicated man shooting at passing cars. Had he got to the building with the handgun in hand I would probably would have shot him. In either case, when it turned out he had no weapon or when it turned out he only had a blank pistol I would have deeply regretted shooting him.

Oh, the kicker was the headlines in the Columbus Citizen Journal the next morning: "Police Shoot Handicapped Man". No wonder some LEOs get cynical. They responded to a call, handled it very well in my opinion, then get dissed in the press. The Sgt with the riot gun should have received praise for showing such self control, instead he gets accused of shooting a handicapped man.
 
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