Let's talk about loading for J-Frames...

[shooter686]

What loads are you shooting in your J-Frames? Please include model, load data, etc.

I recently acquired a 642 and put some 158gr LSWC over a minimal charge of Unique (4.2 grns) and WOW! Did those little fellars smack the snot out of my hand! Its been a while since I fired a j-frame, and this is my first airweight, but 15 rounds was all I could handle!! After some concern over the wisdom of my new purchase, Trail Boss came to mind....Put together some 158 grn LSWC over 3.0 grns TB and.....I could shoot these things all day!

Anyway - love to hear about your J-frame loads and throw in a few pictures if you like! Pics of my 642 attached.

Shooter686

 

[Dragon88]

642, 125gr LFPs, and Clays.

 

[pete950]

I like HBWC over 2.9 of bullsey SWC over 3.5 of bullsey

 

[PALADIN85020]

Jeff Cooper (the Guru) said:

"The .38 Spl. I consider this cartridge to be a two-inch-barrel-only proposition. In a snubby I like a 160-grain lead SWC and either five grains of Red Dot or 8.5 grains of SR4756, to break 1000 fps. Such a load is hard on the gun, but you don't get something for nothing. For a policeman who is forced to use a .38 Spl. but can go to a six-inch barrel on his duty gun, I suggest the Speer 146-grain JHP and 10 grains of SR4756, for 1300 fps. This is an overlooked combination that gets the tired old .38 up into low-end .357 performance."

Important disclaimer: I take NO responsibility for advocating or suggesting these loads, but I will tell you that I have loaded up his Red Dot load and it was really harsh in a Model 60. I only shot a few of them, and the rest have been sitting in my closet since the 1980s. As always, YOU are responsible for what you load. Just sayin'.

John

 

[Gatofeo]

Meh. Cooper. Overrated.
I gave up on him in the 1970s, when his ego spilled over the pages of Guns & Ammo magazine and he became a demigod to readers.

I've fired maximum loads in my S&W 637 snubbie, and it's no fun. But more to the point, the recoil and flash are so disconcerting that in a real firefight it would probably cause you to miss, or hesitate to fire.
Either can get you killed.

I carry the Remington 158 gr. lead hollowpoint load, +P version, and even that's a handful but it has a history of good terminal effect. The very soft lead and large hollow help to ensure expansion.

I'm not much of a fan of jacketed bullets in the .38 Special, or most revolvers. A properly constructed, sized and loaded lead bullet will equal or excel most jacketed loads. Velocity will be higher, due to less friction than jacketed bullets.
The extra friction of jacketed bullets also increases recoil. Resistance = Recoil.
All things equal, a lead bullet will deliver less perceived recoil than a jacketed one. It's all because of resistance.

Cooper proselytized the .45, and it's an exceptionally good cartridge, but it comes in a big, bulky package that is difficult to conceal, or in a small package that is difficult to control and not always reliable.
The mini .45s have a reputation for unreliability, due to a variety of factors currently under argument. Take your pick.

Cooper and Keith eschewed the .38 snubnose, but it's better than bare fists. It can be stoked with loads that are both reasonably controllable, and effective. And be accurate too!
Moreover, like all revolvers, it is nearly infallible. It will go BANG when you pull the trigger.

I'd like to see a mould that, when using pure lead, delivers a .35-caliber bullet of 140 grains, with a huge hollowpoint, and a gas check on the bottom. Semi-wadcutter design, too.

With today's modern lubricants (Lee Liquid Alox comes to mind), you should be able to hurl that bullet at 950 fps from a .38 Special snub. The pure lead and large hollow would assist expansion. The gas check would help to reduce leading with such a soft bullet.
I know ... I know ... leading comes from undersized bullets, et al.
But I also know from experience that it can come from using a soft bullet.

The .38 Special remains a good round. And a useable one for defense, with the proper loads. Sure, the .45 is better but it takes a lot of training to reach that level. Few people want to invest the time and expense.

 

[bluetopper]

I shoot and carry with 148gr cast lead double ended wadcutters in my flat latch no dash 36 and 36-1 loaded from 3.0 to 3.3gr of Bullseye. Very accurate and very hard hitting. I have an old Lyman manual that lists 3.5gr as max with this bullet.

 

[Skip Sackett]

M60 - 13, 160gr WC, 8gr SR4756. I only shoot them enough to keep good at it with those loads. These loads are not to be shot in an airweight of any kind though.

Here is the gun:

Here are the bullets:

 

[Rule3]

For the OP, it depends on what you want to do. Are you seeking full house SD loads, plinking practice loads or what?

Up on the top of this section under notable thread is a long one about duplicating the FBI LOAD.

Bottom line, any +P 38 special out of a lightweight J frame is going to have some snap to it.
Carried a lot and shot a little.

 

[Cocked & Locked]

158 grain SWC's over 4.7 grains of Unique is what I load and shoot in all my .38 specials...J & K frames. Works good for me.

 

[valkyriekl]

I've been using a 158gr cast LRN over 6.3gr AA#5 to make a practice .38+P load. It helps to practice with something as close to my carry load (Federal 158gr LSWCHP .38+P) as possible. I haven't chrono'ed this load, but just going by feel (how much it smacks my hand =) it feels about right. Maybe a little too smoky, though - that's probably due to the bullet hardness (12 BHN) and/or the lube that Missouri Bullet Co. puts on their bullets.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

In a M642 or M442 I usually shoot a 158gr LSWC over 4.0gr W231.

When I want to practice with a +P load I use Longshot over the same bullet.

 

[Rule3]

In a M642 or M442 I usually shoot a 158gr LSWC over 4.0gr W231.

When I want to practice with a +P load I use Longshot over the same bullet.

What?, No HS 6??

Does the Longshot push the bullet backwards?

 

[Hook686]

I bought the light weight .357 magnum J-Frame, the M&P 340. When I first took it to the range I took a mix of commercial and handloads. My results are:

3.7 grains of Bullseye and a 96 grain LRN was very soft recoil at 700 fps
PMC Starfire 125 grain SFHP .38 Special +P at 815 fps had a mild recoil
Speer 135 grain GDHP .38 Special +P at 850 fps produced a moderate recoil
5.7 grains of Unique with a 158 grain SJSP at 850 fps also produced a moderate recoil
6.2 grains of Unique with the 158 grain SJSP bullet yielded 865 fps and still moderate recoil
9.0 grains of Unique and a 125 grain SJSP bullet yielded 1160 fps and severe recoil, tough extraction .. tough on my hand
7.5 grains of Unique with 158 grain SJSP yield 930 fps and moderate recoil
7.5 grains of Unique with a 125 grain SJSP bullet yield 990 fps and again the recoil was moderate

I have since load 6.5 grains of Unique and 7.0 grains of Unique with a 158 grain XTP/HP bullet and experience moderate recoil. I have not chronographed these, but expect them to yield between the 865 fps and the 990 fps data.

 

[enfield]

I've been loading soft 158 gr SWC over 3.2 gr of Bullseye for practice. Very mild.

 

[cjw3]

Something to keep in mind about J frame .38 Specials is that, being five shot, the cylinder slots are located between the chambers. Despite the revolver's small size, the result of this is that they are plenty strong enough for any reasonable load.

Whether a particular shooter's hand is up to the job remains to be seen. I use my Model 60 with the RB service stocks and a T-grip for ease of concealment and smooth access from a pocket holster. With heavier loads, it becomes "tiresome" after a few cylinders full, but the fact remains that it can take it. I don't have any experience with an Airweight, but I would expect wear and tear would be accelerated with the use of a lot of heavier loads compared to their use in a steel frame.

Model 60, .38 Special, 2":

4.7 grains of 231, 158 grain SWC: 790 fps. This is a good all-round load, clean burning and accurate. I also use 3.5/Bullseye with the same bullet and get good results, although I have not checked velocity.

Model 36, .38 Special, 2":
3.0 grains/Bullseye, 148 DEWC, 1.24" OAL: 670 fps. Good for practice, economical.

4.0 grains/Bullseye, 148 grain DEWC, 1.24 OAL: 805 fps. I got some fairly pronounced leading of the forcing cone in this and a 4" M&P in 10 shots. That tells me that the pressure is getting a little steep for the particular cast bullets I was using. Given a harder alloy there is no reason why this would not make a decent load if higher velocity from a DEWC was wanted.

5.4 grains/Unique, 158 LSWC: 893 fps. This is a +P equivalent load and is taken from the Lyman manual. Accurate and hard hitting. This has been my favorite load for this level of .38 Special performance for over 30 years.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

What?, No HS 6??

Does the Longshot push the bullet backwards?

HS-6 for lead bullets and Longshot for jacketed bullets. (as much as it pains me to admit something other than HS-6 will shoot well)

 

[HKSmith]

Meh. Cooper. Overrated.
I gave up on him in the 1970s, when his ego spilled over the pages of Guns & Ammo magazine and he became a demigod to readers.

I've fired maximum loads in my S&W 637 snubbie, and it's no fun. But more to the point, the recoil and flash are so disconcerting that in a real firefight it would probably cause you to miss, or hesitate to fire.
Either can get you killed.

I carry the Remington 158 gr. lead hollowpoint load, +P version, and even that's a handful but it has a history of good terminal effect. The very soft lead and large hollow help to ensure expansion.

I'm not much of a fan of jacketed bullets in the .38 Special, or most revolvers. A properly constructed, sized and loaded lead bullet will equal or excel most jacketed loads. Velocity will be higher, due to less friction than jacketed bullets.
The extra friction of jacketed bullets also increases recoil. Resistance = Recoil.
All things equal, a lead bullet will deliver less perceived recoil than a jacketed one. It's all because of resistance.

Cooper proselytized the .45, and it's an exceptionally good cartridge, but it comes in a big, bulky package that is difficult to conceal, or in a small package that is difficult to control and not always reliable.
The mini .45s have a reputation for unreliability, due to a variety of factors currently under argument. Take your pick.

Cooper and Keith eschewed the .38 snubnose, but it's better than bare fists. It can be stoked with loads that are both reasonably controllable, and effective. And be accurate too!
Moreover, like all revolvers, it is nearly infallible. It will go BANG when you pull the trigger.

I'd like to see a mould that, when using pure lead, delivers a .35-caliber bullet of 140 grains, with a huge hollowpoint, and a gas check on the bottom. Semi-wadcutter design, too.

With today's modern lubricants (Lee Liquid Alox comes to mind), you should be able to hurl that bullet at 950 fps from a .38 Special snub. The pure lead and large hollow would assist expansion. The gas check would help to reduce leading with such a soft bullet.
I know ... I know ... leading comes from undersized bullets, et al.
But I also know from experience that it can come from using a soft bullet.

The .38 Special remains a good round. And a useable one for defense, with the proper loads. Sure, the .45 is better but it takes a lot of training to reach that level. Few people want to invest the time and expense.

The resistance of the bullet to moving down the barrel has nothing to do with recoil. The recoil energy of any firearm is proportional to the square of both the mass exiting the barrel (bullet + powder) and its velocity. It's also inversely proportional to the mass of the gun.

If anything, substituting a higher resistance bullet in a given load will cause more of the energy to be dissipated as heat, which will lower the muzzle velocity and lower recoil. At equal weights and muzzle velocities, jacketed and cast bullets will have the same recoil.

 

[cochise]

Lets see, I shoot mostly a model 60 and 36. My Colt detective gets' used a bit. I do not hot rod my j frames. I have other revolvers for more punch.

148 wc or 158 grn lswc 4.5 grns Unique
148 wc 3.2 grns of 231
148 wc 2.9 grns SR7625, very mild, accurate and fun to shoot

 

[hivel37]

Three grs of Bullseye over 148 gr hbwc works nice in this 36.

 

[mike from st pete]

J-Frame Loads

125 lead round nose flat point, 158 LSWC, Hornady XTP 125 HP, Swift 125 flatpoint semi jacketed. With an appropriate dose of Unique or WIN231.