.357 Magnums

[m4bgringo]

So, the Model 19, Model 66, and Model 686 are all .357 Magnums. I'm sure there are other models. What's the real difference between all of them?

Model 19 has the firing pin on the hammer instead of inside the frame? It's also blue, not SS. What else? I see the 19's tend to be cheaper to buy used than the 686's (which I already own).

Looking for another .357 Mag to use when the wife won't "share" her 686!

 

[chief38]

The Model 19 & 66 are K Frames, and the Model 586 & 686 are L Frames which are between the K's and the N's. For occasional use of 357's the K's are OK, but for a steady .357 diet, use an L or N frame.

As far as the firing pins are concerned, the older ones have the hammer mounted firing pins and the newer ones have frame mounted firing pins. The only way you can get a hammer mounted FP now days is to buy a used one.

Chief38

 

[mtelkhntr]

28's on the N frame aren't bad either. Made as a cheaper version of the 27 but now that they're discontinued they seem to have found a following.

 

[47D]

There are lots of .357s - Models: 13, 19, 27, 28, 65, 66, 327, 340, 360, 386, 520, 581, 586, 619, 620, 627, 681, 686 and sometimes 10, 60, 640, and 649.

What's the real difference between all of them?

Frame size, finish, fixed vs adjustable sights, frame material, etc.

Frames: J-frames (340, 360, 60, 640, 649) are the smallest and hold 5 shots. Next come the K-frames (13, 19, 65, 66) with 6 shots. Then L-frames (386, new 520, 581, 586, 619, 620, 681, 686) that hold 6 or 7 shots. Finally the largest .357s are on the N-frame (27, 28, 327, 627, and old 520) that hold 6 or 8 shots.

Finish: 65, 66, 619, 620, 627, 681, 686, 60, 640, 649 are all stainless steel. The rest can be various types of blued or nickel, except the 340, 327, 360, 386 which could be matte blued or stainless (and denote a lightweight frame material).

Sights: 10, 13, 60, 65, 340, 327, 360, 619, 640, 649 and old 520 are fixed. The rest are typically adjustable sights (but some like the 386 Nightguard are not).

Model 19 has the firing pin on the hammer instead of inside the frame?

The location of the firing pin is something that changed from hammer mounted to frame mounted around 1997 for all models and is not specific to the 19.

 

[Andy Taylor]

Models that begin with the number 6 are stainless. Models that don't are normally blue or sometimes nickel. Models that begin with 3 are the newer scandium or titanium construction. (ETA: I am refering to 3 digit model numbers with the titanium/scandium, not 2 digit model numbers.)

For example a M19 is blue or nickel, while a M66 is the same gun in stainless.

S&W .357s come in 4 frame sizes. They are, from smallest to largest: J, K, L, N

The J frames, and I honestly don't know all of them, are M60, M640, M340, M360, M649. Note that earlier versions of the M60 & 649 were .38 Special.

The K frames are: M13/65, M19/66.

The L frames are M581/681, M586/686, M386, M619, M520/620

The N frames are M27, M28, M627, M327, M520

Note that there are two different M520s, the first an N frame that was made as a special order for the New York State Police in the late 70s or early 80s. The second was an L frame made in the mid part of the first decade of the new century.

As to the hammer mount, vs frame mount FP, that was a design change accross the entire range done in the late 90s. 1997 IIRC. So revolvers made before then will have a hammer mount FP, while revolvers made after that will have a frame mount FP. Regardless of model number.

 

[m4bgringo]

Thanks for all the info. I have a Model 19 sitting at my FFL waiting for a valid permit so I can take her home. It will be my first blue gun. I see that this gun may also be available in nickel. Anyone have a picture? I don't know if I ever saw the difference between the nickel and the stainless finish. May have to start searching for one in nickel.......

 

[JCS&W]

I have a pic of my M19-3 in nickel. Not a great pic, but the best one I have right now. Also have a M19-4 in nickel.

 

[TDC]

Here are some pictures of the different frames. The "N" through "J" frames are all available in 357 Mag. The most apparent visual difference is with cylinder size..

As you move up from "J" frame to "N" frame the guns rapidly lose (or gain) from conceal-ability to durability. There are thousands of variations of frames, grips, barrel lengths, finishes and ammo capacity to choose from... There are also older guns that appeal to many for a variety of function, engineering and collector attractiveness.

A model of choice for everyone from S&W...

 

[m4bgringo]

I have a pic of my M19-3 in nickel. Not a great pic, but the best one I have right now. Also have a M19-4 in nickel.

Is the nickel finish a plating process and if so, over what base metal?

I used to work for a company where we used nickel-plated aluminum housings.

I did a decent job polishing our stainless steel guns, is the nickel finish even brighter?

Thanks for the picture!

 

[Texas Star]

Nickel is applied over bare chrome-moly steel, the same the blued guns are made of. I think they may use an undercoat of copper or something. But it can check and flake.

Stainless steel is just that, a satin-polished buffing of the actual steel. It is usually not as glittery bright as nickel, but more tasteful, in my opinion. And it stands up to being carried in humid weather MUCH better than blue or nickel guns.

Be aware that some men willl polish a stainless gun so bright that it resembles nickel. But it retains its resistance to rust. You do have to keep it oiled, but it lasts better than plain steel. Salt air will rust it if you aren't careful. Always maintain your gun, even if it's stainless. But that gives you a lot more leeway before damage occurs in a damp climate.

 

[Andy Taylor]

Nickel tends to be shinier, but Colt, and I'm sure others, has used a more subdued nickel finish through an electroless plating process.

Also Stainless can be polished bright, and Colt (again) offered this on the Python, calling it "Ultimate Stainless".

However Nickel tends to have a more yellowish hew to it than stainless, no matter how shiny or subdued either finish is.

 

[Andy Taylor]

Also of note, The L frame revolvers use the same grip as the K frame revolvers, as it was originally intended to be a more robust version of the K frame.

 

[Horace & Daniel]

Great thread guys. Full of great information, especially for a wheelgun noob like me. Love the X- to J-frame photos too.

 

[Martya]

Great thread guys. Full of great information, especially for a wheelgun noob like me. Love the X- to J-frame photos too.

Should be a sticky!

 

[JDW250]

I love my 686-5. It is by far my favorite weapon to shoot, but it has only given me the wants for more .357 magnums. I am on the lookout for a 66 4" RB and a 60 3" RB, preferrably both in pre-lock. I've read plenty that you should only put a moderate amount of .357 loads through the K frames due to the issue of potentially cracking the forcing cone. However, I've not read any concerns about running a lot of .357 loads through the J frames. Can a J frame model 60 handle .357s better than a K frame 66? If so, why?

Also, when did the model 60 start becoming available in .357 Magnum? In other words, can you find a pre-lock model 60 chambered in .357 Magnum?

Thanks in advance for any education opportunities you may have.

 

[47D]

I've read plenty that you should only put a moderate amount of .357 loads through the K frames due to the issue of potentially cracking the forcing cone. However, I've not read any concerns about running a lot of .357 loads through the J frames. Can a J frame model 60 handle .357s better than a K frame 66? If so, why?

Because no one has ever been able to deal with the necessary pain to fire a sufficient number of .357 magnums out of a J-frame to cause it damage.

Actually, the K-frames that did have forcing cone issues were in the thinner bottom portion of the forcing cone:

The J Magnum does not have a thinner portion of the forcing cone (and was likely engineered with knowledge of the K-frame issue):

These pictures and information are from the late (and great) Stephen Camp's website: Hi Powers and Handguns. Mr. Camp believes that some advances in metallurgy and design combined with the fact that almost no J-frame shooter can tolerate feeding his J-frame a steady diet of hot .357s is why the J-frame is not reported to have issues with cracking.

Also, when did the model 60 start becoming available in .357 Magnum? In other words, can you find a pre-lock model 60 chambered in .357 Magnum?

In 1996, model 60-9 began using the "J Magnum" frame and could thus fire .357. The internal lock did not begin until 2001 with 60-14 and up.

 

[JDW250]

I love this site! Excellent info! Thanks for the response and education.

 

[Raimundo]

Because no one has ever been able to deal with the necessary pain to fire a sufficient number of .357 magnums out of a J-frame to cause it damage.

Actually, the K-frames that did have forcing cone issues were in the thinner bottom portion of the forcing cone:

The J Magnum does not have a thinner portion of the forcing cone (and was likely engineered with knowledge of the K-frame issue):

These pictures and information are from the late (and great) Stephen Camp's website: Hi Powers and Handguns. Mr. Camp believes that some advances in metallurgy and design combined with the fact that almost no J-frame shooter can tolerate feeding his J-frame a steady diet of hot .357s is why the J-frame is not reported to have issues with cracking.

In 1996, model 60-9 began using the "J Magnum" frame and could thus fire .357. The internal lock did not begin until 2001 with 60-14 and up.

Lately around here, I'm seeing a lot of people at my range shooting j frame .357's. I love to watch them shoot & see their reactions after. Especially the women. I even often see a lot of flinching even before they pull the trigger.

 

[RHINOWSO]

357s... J-frame 640-1 and K-frame 65-3 3"... The 640-1 is very controllable even with my carry load (Speer 125gr Gold Dot full house loads... )

66-2 4"...

Rhino

 

[m4bgringo]

I've been trying to find what the difference is between the .38 Special and .357 Magnum rounds. Anyone trully know?

I know the .357 is slightly longer than the .38, but that little difference in length does not explain the difference in shooting those rounds!

Is the powder the same? Is the amount of powder the difference? We shoot a lot of wad cutters and obviously they have less powder in them since the bullet is down inside the brass instead of being only part-way inserted into the cartridge.