Post Office & Handguns

pre model 32 Terrier shipped to USPS in Washington D.C. in 1951.
As aside note my father was a registry clerk in 1950-1960 time frame at the post office in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. He told me he had a Colt 2 inch 38 in drawer he took with him every night when he took the registered mail to train station. Said he went to local PD once a year fired 6 rounds to qualify to carry gun.

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"Now, I don't think that postal empolyees can even carry a pocketknife."

I was a rural carrier associate (part time mailman) and I was allowed to carry a knife. It was useful for cutting bundles of mail apart.

" Of course there's the beautiful "Post Office Model" above and I had heard of Model 1917's being issued to post offices, but I don't know if that's true."

Skeeter wrote about buying a number of post office surplus Colt 1917s. He also wrote that while he was awaiting appointment to the Border Patrol, he took a job as a letter carrier in Amarillo. Some toughs made a threat against him. He stated that he knew it was against the rules, but he carried a pre M15 in his letter bag, in addition to the US Mail.
 
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My grandfather was a letter carrier from the 1930s until his retirement in the 1950s. Grandma told me once that he routinely packed a small handgun in his pocket but it was a personal gun and not issued.
 
With the proliferation of pitbull attacks and dogs roaming free in packs in some eastern cities, i don't know that i'd want to risk my life/limbs on a can of pepper spray. I remember reading that in one large eastern city neighborhood, all mail delivery was suspended due to this very problem. People had to come to Post Office to pick up their mail. I want to say it was Detroit but maybe someone else can help me on this.
 
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Kelly Green said:
At one time mail carriers were allowed to carry guns. That ended during LBJ's term in office.
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Wait a minute he was the guy who sent me to Vietnam and the father of the "Great Society" or was it the "Great Welfare Society".
 
I have it in mind that the US in the 1920s, '30s and '40s was essentially a cash economy, and the Post Office would have been a major provider of cash transfer services between distant individuals. While I don't doubt some carriers were armed, I suspect that most of the Post Office models we hear about were counter guns housed in the post offices themselves, or perhaps issued to postmasters or senior counter workers who handled fair amounts of cash and might have been targeted by bad guys.

I beieve there a very few prewar .38/32 Terriers that were issued with square butts; weren't these called Post Office models? Or maybe they were Banker's guns? Because of similar functions, the models kind of blur in my mind.
 
I am pretty sure I have seen a Colt 'New Service' Revolver which had been U.S.P.S. property ( and which had a tan Military type Holster with the USPS in an embossed Logo on the Flap ).

There are neighborhoods here in Las Vegas, where the Post Office would no longer deliver Mail to...but it was because of there being too many unpleasant people living in the area of those neighborhoods, rather than because of 'Pitt Bulls'.
 
One of my co-workers from about 20 years ago was our warehouse manager. He quit one fall to take a part time job as a mail carrier. His management job was pretty good, but he want the better job..:) So after Christmas he got dumped by the PO, and came back as his UE compensation ran out. By late spring he came back for our busy season. But each fall for a few years he'd quit again. Finally he quit for good and was accepted full time as a mail carrier.

He came back and had to tell me his gun story. He knew I was a long time dumpster diver. I have no pride. He learned well from me.

His route took him into rural and semi-suburban places. One day he was driving his route and saw gun stocks and barrels sticking out of a garbage can. It was garbage pickup day and he'd just passed the compactor. So he stopped his mail jeep, put the guns in it, and drove off before the garbage men could get them. All the while knowing if he got caught, he could kiss his mail career goodbye. So he gave it some thoughts. No way he could make it home and back to finish his route. So as he rounded a corner, he realized there was a jeep type road off into the woods on one side, with no houses visible. So he pulled in, hid the guns, and started to pull back out. Coming down the road was a local policeman. He stopped and asked if everything was alright.

My buddy said sure, he just had to take a leak! :) The cop understood, having a shortage of bathrooms himself. So he finished the route, even more scared some kid or someone might find the guns and connect them to him. He did the math, the cop changed shifts about 3:30, so he lingered at work a little longer, then drove back and recovered the hidden guns. His assumption from the names on the mail to the house was the husband died of old age, the woman didn't know what to do with his guns so she pitched them in the garbage. Out of the deal he got some no so terrible guns that he wouldn't have been able to buy otherwise. But he still was pretty scared of getting caught and fired.

I don't have a Post Office model, but if I did, I wouldn't hide it either.
 
The Postal Inspection Service (external crime) and Office of Inspector General (internal crime) are the two law enforcement agencies currently attached to the Postal Service. They are, of course, armed and have investigative and arrest authority.

In years past some regular postal employees were armed in an official capacity while performing certain duties. Mail clerks on the old Railway Post Office and Highway Post Office systems, which were discontinued in the mid-70's, often carried holstered snub nosed .38 special revolvers while sorting mail on the moving trains and buses. Many local post offices were issued revolvers (the ones I saw were .45 ACP) which were kept in the safe and were primarily used for escorting trucks carrying high value Registered Mail articles to the area processing center. This practice was also discontinued in the mid-70's.

Of course, things were different in "the old days". Unofficially, many rural mail carriers had guns in their vehicles. Many of these old retired carriers like to tell stories about favorite hunting spots on their routes. There's even a story about a post office housed in a little country store in the 70's with an FFL...;)

Everything changed in 1986 with the shooting at the Edmond, OK post office. That was the first of several post office shootings over the next few years and spawned the term "going postal". Since then, possession of a firearm on postal property or on duty by a postal employee is cause for immediate dismissal.
 
PMRet said:
The Postal Inspection Service (external crime) and Office of Inspector General (internal crime) are the two law enforcement agencies currently attached to the Postal Service. They are, of course, armed and have investigative and arrest authority.

In years past some regular postal employees were armed in an official capacity while performing certain duties. Mail clerks on the old Railway Post Office and Highway Post Office systems, which were discontinued in the mid-70's, often carried holstered snub nosed .38 special revolvers while sorting mail on the moving trains and buses. Many local post offices were issued revolvers (the ones I saw were .45 ACP) which were kept in the safe and were primarily used for escorting trucks carrying high value Registered Mail articles to the area processing center. This practice was also discontinued in the mid-70's.

Of course, things were different in "the old days". Unofficially, many rural mail carriers had guns in their vehicles. Many of these old retired carriers like to tell stories about favorite hunting spots on their routes. There's even a story about a post office housed in a little country store in the 70's with an FFL...;)

Everything changed in 1986 with the shooting at the Edmond, OK post office. That was the first of several post office shootings over the next few years and spawned the term "going postal". Since then, possession of a firearm on postal property or on duty by a postal employee is cause for immediate dismissal.
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You seem pretty well up on postal stuff. Is there a limit to what a CUSTOMER can carry into a PO and not violate Federal bans on "weapons" in the facility? I am referring to pocket knives, not guns.

I often avoid the USPS, lest a Swiss Army knife be detected and get me in trouble. I pay more to send from a private mail company, but don't have to leave my knife in the car when I go in. And service is usually faster.
 
I had this publication liberated from me by a forum member a few years ago but, it is very thorough in the care and handling of the guns issued to the P.O. employees as well as giving instructions of how to reload wax bullets and practicing in the back room while on their work break.
Ed

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Holster Photos

Here's a couple of USPO holsters.
uspo64o.JPG

1964 contract, fits 2 inch S&W J frames and Colt D frames.

uspo64.JPG

A reproduction of the same holster, just better made with heavier leather.

postalmilsco44-2.JPG

Milsco Postal Flap Holster for the 1917 Colt & S&W 5 1/2 inch.

Cheers;
Lefty
 
The local USPS Postal Inspectors shoot and qualify at a local PD range. If memory serves they were on the same gun contract as the Treasury Department so during the 90's they carried the Sig 228 and I know for a fact they now carry the Sig 229 (I believe it's a 357 Sig).

I've seen pictures of post office employees here in Northern California carrying 1917's back in the day. It seems like it wasn't uncommon at all.
 
SG-688 said:
...every guy on the mail train carried a revolver....

National Postal Museum: Railway Mail Service

National Postal Museum: Railway Mail Service

US Marines in 1921 guarding a postal shipment.
Good shot of the calvary draw flap holster. What is the web pouch on the far right?

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I'm not sure what those web pouches were for either, but they look like they might be for a stick magazine? It also looks like the marine in the middle has his 1903 pointed right at that dope in the center of the photo, he's lucky the bayonet wasn't mounted. LMAO!

Cheers;
Lefty
 
SG688, I am surprised at you. The pouch on the right is the three pocket pouch{WW1} issued to carry extra 1/2 moon clips. Next time you're at Friday Night take a look at Bill's latest complete rig with mint 1917 S&W. HRichard and I are knocked out over it.
 
I should have mentioned it in the above post but the Post Office was the first Gov't agency to buy and use Thompson Submachine guns. In fact, the Marines "borrowed" them when they went to fight the "Banana Wars" in central America. Also, the local Post Office here in town had a S&W 38 S&W Terrier and a Colt DS in 32 Colt New Police and a Stevens Dbl. Barrel 12 and a Win. 97 before they turned them in in the late 80's I believe. They use to take them out when they went to the airport to pick up valuable Registerd Mail{CASH} packages. No particular training required.
 
"In fact, the Marines "borrowed" them when they went to fight the "Banana Wars" in central America."

Yes, they did. Of course, Marines tend to "forget" where they borrowed such things and they seem to not be returned. :D
 
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