I have to express my concern.

shadow1 said:
I have always recommended a revolver as a first hand gun. Most of the time the recommendation is blown off. It's ashame.
I've carried semi auto's for most of my life but I still shoot more accurately with my revolvers.
Dave
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To me, giving a beginning shooter a Glock is no different than walking around with a revolver cocked. I rabbit/varmint hunt. Would you go hunting with a beginner and hand them a Glock and hunt with them. You might say, well I would not get in front of them. That is fine, but what about their safety when they are not used to where their index finger should be and they arn't yet aware of their muzzle direction? What about a bird dog running around during all of this? It might get shot by a misfire (many times we hunt rabbit's while pheasant hunting and one or two will have the shot guns while one has a revolver, notice I said revolver). I have taken many kids and grandkids hunting with revolvers and the first thing they do is cock it when they see the rabbit, then the rabbit darts off and the child is now standing there holding a cocked revolver. That is the time to teach them repeatedly to uncock the gun safety and return to hunting. Would anyone want to walk next to a person with a cocked revolver in their hand? With a Glock and many more SA's, it's always cocked. I don't even recommend going with a friend that thinks they know how to shoot that is going to take a Glock or a SA because some people are just not muzzle savvy. They just aren't.

My question is this. Would you take a revolver, cock it, and tell a person to hold it? That is what happpens when they get a Glock the first time. The Glock is an extremely great pistol in the hands of a skilled shooter, but not in the hands of a beginner.

I would like to say that my favorite SA is the 1911 because of the ease of the safety features. But this just my personal preference. You won't catch me hunting with my Springfield XD because I have been known to trip on the lava rock and that is a great way to shoot someone, or myself.

These are just my thoughts.
 
I didn't know young people were buying guns, period. I assumed they are at home playing video games and eating potato chips. When I purchased my first gun twenty years ago the salesman took me straight to the Glock counter and began his "cure all elixir pitch". I ended up with a Ruger P94 because I wasn't comfortable with the Glock and no noticeable safety features, to a newbie, while the Ruger seemed simple and very well built. The wheel gun option was never discussed and I don't know if I would have even considered one since the movies that interested me as a young person only utilized semi autos. I was clueless and had no idea what questions to ask or what to consider for my first handgun but I wasn't comfortable with the idea of a Glock.
 
gr7070 said:
I do not think a Glock recommendation is poor, at all.

They're extremely reliable, so clearing malfunctions isn't a big concern. Hi capacity is always a good thing, and of course are less likely to need reloading from a newb. As said, they have no safety and have a consistent easy to use trigger.

All of that make them great for self defense and for newbs.

None of this even considers the horrible (by comparison) double action trigger of revolvers. I shoot IDPA and have seen plenty of shooters yank the first shot on DA/SA autos because of the DA. And that's under the minor stress of a timer beep. These aren't even new shooters and some of them go to the range and practice.

Good luck to the newb, who never shoots, is in a high stress situation, and has a 14 pound, long trigger pull.

While they're not my favorite, plastic guns and autos bring a lot of advantages to the table that wheel guns can't.

I fail to see how the sales person made a bad recommendation.
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I agree that the buyer has the responsibility to do some studying beofre going to the shop. The last thing I want to do is take the word of someone I don't know for the solution to any problem I may have. I owned a small gunshop in the early 90's and tended to show the pros and cons of various models to be considered. One of my favorite gripes were with people buying for protection with no intention of practicing or shooting to get familiar with the firearm. I still see that happening at the lgs where I hang out a bit. On the other hand that is their right as citizens and buyers.
 
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I don't think it's all that bad of a recommendation. I am no huge fan of Glocks but they get this bad rep for being "unsafe" because once in a while some "I didn't know it was loaded" idiot put a round through a wall or into his leg. A LEO holsters his Glock with his finger on the trigger and it goes off and then there's all this internet hype about how unsafe the guns are. News flash, if you holster a DA revolver into a retention holster with your finger on the trigger it's probably going to go off too!:rolleyes:

Also, don't get me wrong, I am a revolver fanatic and they outnumber autochuckers in my collection 10 to 1. I own 1 Glock but dozens of 4" .38 Special revolvers. I am probably the biggest proponent out there for DAO snub revolvers as ideal CC guns for new shooters.

I have seen a couple ND's at the range with new shooters with the Taurus 85 and a box of .38 they just bought at Gander Mt........ thumbing hammers back and then sending a round into the dirt when it "went off before I was ready". A cocked hammer on a DA revolver and a new shooter can be a deadly combination. You have the instant ability to over-ride the built in safety of a DA revolver, which is the long, heavy trigger pull........by cocking the hammer.

My idea of an ideal first time gun for a new gun owner would be something like a S&W bodyguard, or some other hammerless DAO snub. But I would not hesitate to drop an NY2 trigger into my Glock 17 and let my non-gun person 62 year old mom use it for HD.
 
I was looking for my first gun a couple of years ago. Went to local sporting goods store and told the salesman I was a novice, looking to buy my first gun. He was a young guy, and I was interested in a semi auto. He was adamant that I not do that, and look at revolvers instead. He was pushing either the 686 or a J frame Pro. I went back several times looking, then by luck my car mechanic told me one of his employees was short of cash and therefore had a gun for sale. Went over and he had a 686-4+, 4" bbl. in box. I now own it. I felt bad about not buying from the store, but I got over it. Maybe next time.
 
Now there were at least TWENTY 38 or 357 revolvers in the store but he didn't even mention them as viable options. I was pretty shocked.
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I agree with your point on many levels. I've thought of it often, myself.

To make matters worse, I was surprised to see, in one of the large regional sporting goods/outfitter stores, a "Home Defense KIT" (or something) that's being packaged by none other than Smith and Wesson. It includes an SD-9 (or 40 or something) semi-auto pistol and Lord knows what else. I think it should've been a 442 they put in that kit.

Now, gun package deals get offered all of the time. The problem with the notion of a "kit", however, is that it's generally marketed towards unknowledgeable customers. Examples: first aid "kits", or home repair "kits", and that's GREAT for first aid or home repair, but I personally don't think there's an easy way (or short cut) to learn about guns and their proper use. The whole thing feels too much like a "Gun Use for Dummies" book.

As far as revolvers go, they're the obvious choice for someone who's buying their first handgun, IMO (as long as the person understands that a revolver should never be viewed as a "beginner" gun.)

Revolvers are intuitive. There's not a whole lot to get confused by with a DA revolver. And other than cylinder latches operating somewhat differently from brand to brand, once you know how to operate your own revolver, you have a good idea of how to operate most revolvers. Semi-autos have DA/SA, DAO, SAO, some with safeties, some without safeties etc., and the differences may be hard for the inexperienced to decipher at a glance.

And having a beginner deal with the much more common functional issues that semi-autos have (ftf, fte, etc.) is bad enough during practice. What would that be like in a defensive situation? I've had BRAND NEW Ruger, S&W and Taurus semi-autos fail on me in the last year at the range. Most issues have been resolved, but not without some degree of frustration. Yet every scratched up old S&W revolver I've purchased has worked fine.

It's not like revolvers don't break, but the reliability of a good semi-auto on a good day is rarely better than an average revolver on an average day.
 
They had never fired a gun before and he was going to sell them a handgun? Seems like a pump 12ga would probably serve them better.
 
A woman had just received her LTCF and wanted a purse/coat pocket gun. She had shot her husbands BG 380 and a couple other guns a 'little bit'. The salesman handed her a S&W 642 and explained all the benefits to the small concealed hammer revolver as a purse and pocket gun. She became hung-up on the fact the gun has no manual safety catch!
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Yeah, you bring up a very good point. In the close to 2 decades that I owned and operated my own retail business (not guns), I learned that trying to educate the customer sometimes meant confusing the customer, and confusing the customer often meant losing the sale.

Even when people aren't knowledgeable about something they still can have pre-conceived notions about it. Safeties are one thing. The other problem is they may be influenced by what they see on TV..."CSI" or whatever.

The old saying "The customer is always right" isn't true. They're frequently wrong. This creates a dilemma for the shop owner - if they challenge the customer too much, they'll see them walk out the door and give their business to the guy down the street.
 
The youngsters often don't know any better. I still train Police Recruits and in-service officers at our Academy, and most have zero idea of how a revolver even works until we do a quick familiarization class on them. Almost all will like how the revolver shoots, but turn their noses up at the capacity. (we let them fire 12 rounds) That comes from doing stuff like playing Call of Duty where the guns are full auto and never run dry, etc.

My grandsons both have their own S&W revolvers in .22, .38Spl and .357Mag and both can operate and shoot them just fine...the 10 year old is a natural. Let them be the ones to choose, however, and I guarantee thet 'firepower' would rule the day...hey cut 'em some slack, they are 10 and 14. :-)

Intellectually, most adults can understand how the self loader operates, whether or not it has an 'active' safety. But if they never go to the range and reinforce that basic knowledge...and very few non-shooters do on a regular basis...they will not be able to safely handle and use it under stress...and someone kicking your door in at 3AM is certainly 'stress'!

Sadly, sales drives all markets...and marketing usually drives sales. Nothing 'wrong' with the Glock or the M&P auto...I own both...but getting sales guys to be enthusiastic over 'old' designs that hold only 5 / 6 rounds is asking a lot when they can sell a plastic framed wundergun cheaper and it holds 15-18 rounds. Well...it just ain't gonna happen.

Luckily the Glock and the M&P are excellent pistols and reliable in the extreme. Hopefully the new owners can keep from shooting anyone who does not need shooting...but that, realistically, is their problem.
 
gr7070 said:
I do not think a Glock recommendation is poor, at all.

They're extremely reliable, so clearing malfunctions isn't a big concern. Hi capacity is always a good thing, and of course are less likely to need reloading from a newb. As said, they have no safety and have a consistent easy to use trigger.

All of that make them great for self defense and for newbs.

None of this even considers the horrible (by comparison) double action trigger of revolvers. I shoot IDPA and have seen plenty of shooters yank the first shot on DA/SA autos because of the DA. And that's under the minor stress of a timer beep. These aren't even new shooters and some of them go to the range and practice.

Good luck to the newb, who never shoots, is in a high stress situation, and has a 14 pound, long trigger pull.

While they're not my favorite, plastic guns and autos bring a lot of advantages to the table that wheel guns can't.

I fail to see how the sales person made a bad recommendation.
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I concur!

That is except the statement about plastic guns not being a favorite... The plastic guns (Glocks) ARE my favorite for a self-defense handgun.

Edmo
 
You said "a couple" walked in. So the wife may need to shoot the gun.

I bought my wife a .38 Spl revolver for a HD gun after an attempted break-in because I felt my G23 was too big for her and fell for the "revolvers are more reliable" line. Well, because of her small, weaker hands and the longer/heavier DA trigger pull she could not hit the broad side of a barn with it...despite practice...so she doesn't trust it.

So I got her a G26, which I felt had less recoil and would fit her hand better than the G23. Well for some reason, it does NOT fit her well and she cannot seem to get it to feed 100% reliably -- likely limp-wristing it but again, she does not trust it.

So my G23 still sits in the quick-access safe for her. It's too big, it has too much recoil...but she shoots it twice as well as either of the guns I bought for her. And in the 7 years I have owned it there has never been any feed/firing issues with it...in fact, it has proven more reliable than any of my 3 revolvers!

My point is, a revolver is not for everybody. One needs to understand their experience, needs and abilities. A brand new shooter WILL usually have issues shooting a DA revolver accurately.

I will admit I am FAR from new to shooting, and have almost as much time behind revolvers as semis, and I still shoot semis better (though I'm working on it!)
 
Everyone at work and in my family know I'm a gun guy so I always get asked the "what gun should I buy?" question. My common response is "What do you want to use it for?" My basic recommendations for a virgin shooter wanting a straight up HD firearm is get a pump shotgun like the 870. Often times they insist on a Glock, I ask them if they have ever held one and generally the answer no but I saw them on TV. These guys generally get the .38/357 revolver is the better option speech. I then tell them to head to the local range that rents guns and shoot a variety of them, because it's cheaper to rent something you don't like than to buy it.


Just two weeks ago My brother-in-law had his mind made up he was going to go get a Glock 9 or 4-tay for HD/range work. I took to a gunshow and made him pick up, hold, and operate every viable handgun we could find, from the Model 10s to full race 1911s and went into as much detail about them as I could, when I did not know I asked the seller to educate him about the firearm in question. By the end of the day he had completely nixed the Glock idea and was wanting a S&W 625, I did not coax him toward the .45acp wheelgun he came to that conclusion on his own, he said it just felt right. The strange part is I am the one who ended up with a plastic pistol, an M&P45, go figure. ;) As soon as the weather breaks we will head down to his brothers farm and I will let him actually shoot some different firearms so he can base his decision on more than it feels good empty in my hand.
 
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The initial post sized up the situation quite clearly, "large shop", couple "picking out a handgun for the house". The post was not about a local training facility, not an indoor or outdoor range, but a large gun store, where the intent is to sell guns. If the original post contained the complete transcript of the communication between the buyer and the salesperson, then we could understand the entire transaction. The salesperson was probably relying on his own opinions and experiences and relaying them to the customer. Some may have first pointed to revolvers (as I would) but if there is resistance, go semi-auto. Not too hard to figure out.
 
In a lot of ways a semi-auto is easier for a novice to use than a revolver. A Glock is darn near dummy proof and they are so "main stream" that the word Glock is becoming another word for a gun with the younger crowd, I hear phrases like "gettin Glock popped":o A gun shop clerk somewhere like Gander Mt. who also works in the shoe dept. is still probably going to know what a Glock is.

Even though the M&P is taking a lot of the LE market, the Glock is still known by anyone who knows what a gun is as the standard issue "cop gun".

You stuff a "clip" full of the "bullets", (I hate those terms but everyone uses them:rolleyes:) slap the "clip" in to the gun, rack the slide and then it is ready to be a night stand dust bunny magnet. it requires no maintenance and will never rust.

We think in terms of gun and shooting enthusiasts. Many of us are collectors and a lot of us probably shoot more rounds in a week than the "average" gun buyer will shoot in a year, or a lifetime.

Many people could care less about the safety or reliability of a revolver. They just want something name-brand like Glock or Sig that holds a lot of rounds that they've seen in a movie, and odds are that they'll just take it to the range once a year or so, if that, and run a box through it. It is a proven fact that gun sales are spiking, and most of those sales are going to people who are going to hardly shoot the guns. I have heard things like "there was a robbery in town and my dad says I should buy a gun for the house, something like a Glock .40" quite a few times.
 
You guys do know that the "new-fangled plastic guns" have been readily available since Ronald Reagan was in office, right? When something has been around better than 25 years it's no longer a passing fad.

I am here to tell you that the revolver is not seen as a viable weapon by most of the population. Half the people out there equate the revolver with the Old West and would be surprised that they're still manufactured.

It's the 21st Century and the Glock is as ubiquitous as Kleenex and as common as the Honda Accord. To take the analogy further, revolvers are stick shifts and pistols are automatic transmissions.

Just look at the available ammo on the shelf at the LGS or Wal*Mart. Percentage wise, how much is for use in revolvers? 10%, maybe 20? The autofeeding pistol is the handgun of choice in the 21st Century. You know it's true.
 
blujax01 said:
You guys do know that the "new-fangled plastic guns" have been readily available since Ronald Reagan was in office, right? When something has been around better than 25 years it's no longer a passing fad.

I am here to tell you that the revolver is not seen as a viable weapon by most of the population. Half the people out there equate the revolver with the Old West and would be surprised that they're still manufactured.

It's the 21st Century and the Glock is as ubiquitous as Kleenex and as common as the Honda Accord. To take the analogy further, revolvers are stick shifts and pistols are automatic transmissions.

Just look at the available ammo on the shelf at the LGS or Wal*Mart. Percentage wise, how much is for use in revolvers? 10%, maybe 20? The autofeeding pistol is the handgun of choice in the 21st Century. You know it's true.
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You're proving the OP's point. half the population doesn't consider the revolver to be a viable defense weapon and barely know it's still being manufactured because half the population is ignorant about guns. So you want to put a 5.5 pound trigger in the hands of someone who can't tell you the difference between a Glock and a 1911? A good friend of mine bought a Springfield XD and fired one box of ammo in it before he put it away (sock drawer). two years later, I ask to see the gun. he takes it out and give it to me. I rack the slide to check the gun and the round pops out. No mag in the gun. he thought the gun couldn't be fired without the mag in place. Now, he's representative of the majority of gun owners (in my opinion). Buy a gun, make sure it works, then put it away. His hadn't even been cleaned in the two years since he fired it. I go to the range and see tons of scary shooters. People who have NO business owning a gun. They say the 2nd amendment gives them the right to own it. I agree, but their right to own a gun doesn't trump my right NOT to get shot by some idiot who doesn't even know if his gun is loaded or not.

Glocks are good guns in the hands of a trained shooter (and even then, they're much less forgiving of error).
 
I work in a small sporting goods store. Like others, I'm semi-retired. Many people who have never had or fired a gun come into the shop looking for a Glock. Some want a Desert Eagle. Movie stuff.

I start off telling them that we all are paid by the hour, without any form of commission. Then I tell them I"ll ultimately sell them whatever they want, but if they want my opinion, I'll offer it. Sometimes, I'll tell them I would or wouldn't buy a spevific gun for my wife, but if they really want it, I'll sell it to them.

If they ask for a recommendation, I'll suggest a 20 gauge shotgun; 2/3 of the shot with 1/2 the recoil of a 12 gauge. I point out that an 18" barrel and youth or bantam stock will provide a little more manuverability inside the home than full sized shotguns. I rarely suggest a pistol grip.

If they don't like the above suggestion, I'll suggest a revolver, either a .38 Special or .357 Magnum. I tell them that the .357 will work great with +P .38 Special ammo.

If they want a semi auto I'll show them what they want to see and go through the steps required to fire a round. Then, I'll ask them if they feel comfortable to remember all the steps while in a high stress situation, when their adrenalin is pumping, eyesight is reduced and motor skills are not the best.

Whatever they choose, I'll recommend they rent a few guns from one of two local ranges. Regardless of the outcome, I suggest they get a copy of "Guns 101" by David Steier. David, aka Rolan Craps, is an NRA certified Master Instructor. His book is sold by Amazon.com for around eighteen dollars.

In the end, I'll sell them whatever they choose. I can do only so much. Then it's all up to them.
 
I've been in retail sales, everything from hardware to life insurance, and it seems a universal truth that many if not most salespeople tend to try to sell what they want to sell and not what the customer wants or needs. This is poor practice for a salesman, and particularly disturbing when it comes to guns, but it is a natural, if self-defeating, phenomenon. Being sold the wrong product is about as good a way to insure the buyer will never come back as I know of.
 
Orig. post:.... "a couple came in asking the salesman for help picking out a handgun for the house as they never fired a gun before."

R.G. Moore posted a response, above, recommending that a shotgun would be most suitable for this couple for home defense. I want to second that.
The wife and I have ready access to a loaded shotgun, as well as her revolver and my BG380 when we are at home. And we both are older, experienced and trained to employ handguns. If given the choice, I will go to the shotgun first.
 
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