aterry33
Member
Can someone provide a good description of the differences between these two grip designs?
Kearsage vs. Roper
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fat tom
Absent Comrade
Check out this thread. There are many examples of Keith Brown's Ropers,as well as a couple of excellent examples of his Kearsarge grips. As they say,a picture is worth a thousand words.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-forum-vendors/173494-assorted-grip-pics.html
f.t.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-forum-vendors/173494-assorted-grip-pics.html
f.t.
rburg
Member
A quick answer, if you're referring to original items, is that Kearsarge grips used great quality walnut, while Ropers are pretty mundane. Looks like the guy who made the ropers, Gagne, just went to his local saw mill and bought a few walnut boards. Its like comparing the wood on Browning high grade rifles to the wood used on war vintage M1s. Roper used walnut, but its not pretty.
There aren't many folks here with Kearsarge grips. I bought a set of N frame grips because they were the nicest set of grips I'd ever seen up until that time. After I had them for a few years Smithnut, a poster here, put a picture up on the forum of a set. Turns out they came from one of his friends, and It might be Mike Priwar who had them. Then a few years later a guy from up east managed to do an astounding feat. He found a couple sets, one even for a K frame.
What Keith Brown has done was borrow my grips and took measurements. He then began producing very good replicas. Keith isn't afraid to buy and use fine quality walnut. He seems to realize the cost of the wood is a very minor component in the cost when you consdier how much time and effort he needs to use. Keith appears at almost all the OGCA shows (one coming up this weekend) and can usually be found huddling with "Pizza Man" on some grip deal. )
I'm going to guess I left out the idea that Ropers contribution to the art form was his use of drawings to modify each set of grips. He required his customers to trace their hand on a sheet of paper as part of their order process. I guess he modified the circumference of his grips to fit the hand of the person. I don't think we know enough about Kearsarge to know. But the one set I have fits my hands and eyes just fine!
There aren't many folks here with Kearsarge grips. I bought a set of N frame grips because they were the nicest set of grips I'd ever seen up until that time. After I had them for a few years Smithnut, a poster here, put a picture up on the forum of a set. Turns out they came from one of his friends, and It might be Mike Priwar who had them. Then a few years later a guy from up east managed to do an astounding feat. He found a couple sets, one even for a K frame.
What Keith Brown has done was borrow my grips and took measurements. He then began producing very good replicas. Keith isn't afraid to buy and use fine quality walnut. He seems to realize the cost of the wood is a very minor component in the cost when you consdier how much time and effort he needs to use. Keith appears at almost all the OGCA shows (one coming up this weekend) and can usually be found huddling with "Pizza Man" on some grip deal. )
I'm going to guess I left out the idea that Ropers contribution to the art form was his use of drawings to modify each set of grips. He required his customers to trace their hand on a sheet of paper as part of their order process. I guess he modified the circumference of his grips to fit the hand of the person. I don't think we know enough about Kearsarge to know. But the one set I have fits my hands and eyes just fine!
Here are sets of Keith Brown's reproductions:
Kearsarge:
Ropers:
Original Target Ropers:
Kearsarge:
Ropers:
Original Target Ropers:
Keith Brown
Vendor
I'll take a run at your question. The most obvious difference is the carved pattern on the Keasarge compared to the checkering on the Roper, both are there to help with traction but accomplish it in a different way. The Kearsarge generally is a more straight sided grip with little or no flair at the base. The Roper generally has a more contoured side and noticeable flair at the base. The Kearsarge usually lacks any palm swell while the Roper almost always has it. Every set of both makers grips are different when examined closely. In my opinion the Ropers are much better made showing great consistency in internal wood work, the Kearsarge sets I've examined vary quite a bit inside and it's not unusual to find hidden repairs that I'm fairly certain were done during the making of the grips. I say this because in my early grip making attempts I did some of the same corrective repairs. With all that said I think both makers grips are beautiful examples of each artisans work, highly collectable and valuable, I'm inspired by every set that I see and am lucky enough to handle. Again, just my thoughts on the subject.
Keith
Keith
OP
aterry33
Member
Thanks to all for your comments. I initially thought the main difference was in the carving, but as Keith explained, there is some difference in the mechanics of the grips as well. I am wondering if anyone feels that the carving and/or mechanical difference causes them to handle differently?
mtb1bkr
US Veteran
Keith,
Thanks for the great info. One of these days I'm going to be lucky enough to have a gun which will "need" a set of your stocks. On another note, I was checking out your website and all of your galleries are gone!
Bill
Thanks for the great info. One of these days I'm going to be lucky enough to have a gun which will "need" a set of your stocks. On another note, I was checking out your website and all of your galleries are gone!
Bill
Kearsage custom grips
I thought you guys might like to hear about the day I met Charlie wendell the guy who made Kearsage grips. I was in a gun shop in Canton Massachusetts back in the 1970's. I saw a pair of Kearsarge grips for an "S" frame in the case and asked to see them. I said wow those are nice grips. The man standing beside me said I made them. He introduced himself as Charlie Wendell. I asked if he would make me a set of grips and he said he was retired but that I should contact him and he would see what he could do. He gave me his card and I bought the grips that the store owner had for sale. Not knowing at the time that this was the last oppertunity for me to buy a new set of Kearsarge grips and being short of cash I delayed in calling Charlie. A year or two later a friend of mine contacted Charlie and found out Charlie had passed away. He asked Charlies daughter if there were any grips left that he could purchase. She invited my friend over and he purchaced what was left of Charlies stuff. No grips but he purchased the frames that were used to fit the grips he made. I haven't seen my friend in quite some time and don't know what he did with Charlies stuff. In a weak moment I sold the Kearsrge grips I bought that day and have regretted it ever since. Hope I didn't bore you guys. By the way Charlie was a nice old guy when I met him. I was just a young guy then and he took the time to talk to me probably knowing I was just kicking tires. RHP
I thought you guys might like to hear about the day I met Charlie wendell the guy who made Kearsage grips. I was in a gun shop in Canton Massachusetts back in the 1970's. I saw a pair of Kearsarge grips for an "S" frame in the case and asked to see them. I said wow those are nice grips. The man standing beside me said I made them. He introduced himself as Charlie Wendell. I asked if he would make me a set of grips and he said he was retired but that I should contact him and he would see what he could do. He gave me his card and I bought the grips that the store owner had for sale. Not knowing at the time that this was the last oppertunity for me to buy a new set of Kearsarge grips and being short of cash I delayed in calling Charlie. A year or two later a friend of mine contacted Charlie and found out Charlie had passed away. He asked Charlies daughter if there were any grips left that he could purchase. She invited my friend over and he purchaced what was left of Charlies stuff. No grips but he purchased the frames that were used to fit the grips he made. I haven't seen my friend in quite some time and don't know what he did with Charlies stuff. In a weak moment I sold the Kearsrge grips I bought that day and have regretted it ever since. Hope I didn't bore you guys. By the way Charlie was a nice old guy when I met him. I was just a young guy then and he took the time to talk to me probably knowing I was just kicking tires. RHP
There is a big difference in the artistic capabilities of these two
men. Kearsarge was a real true artisan wood carver, while Roper/
Gagne was a grip maker. We , on this forum, years ago, had a thread
or two featuring the wood carving of Wendell. One of our members
lives in the town, and had visited the family, and taken lots of
pictures of his work. I may still have some of the pictures, and if
I can find them, I will post them here.
Here is a couple of the pictures:
Regards, Mike Priwer
men. Kearsarge was a real true artisan wood carver, while Roper/
Gagne was a grip maker. We , on this forum, years ago, had a thread
or two featuring the wood carving of Wendell. One of our members
lives in the town, and had visited the family, and taken lots of
pictures of his work. I may still have some of the pictures, and if
I can find them, I will post them here.
Here is a couple of the pictures:
Regards, Mike Priwer
JCS&W
US Veteran
Oh my word! That box is unbelievable! Thank you for sharing that pic. Just WOW!
More Kearsarge Photos
This pair of grips should be the ones on the revolver in the box. Note
the elaborate initials carved onto the right grip panel. They are C R W,
meaning Charles Wendell, the carver. I think the gun and box were
his.
This next picture is another of Wendell's own grips, but a different
design to the carving:
The next two pictures are smooth uncarved grips. Note the
outstanding wood:
Next is another carved pair, that may also have the C R W initials:
More to come, Mike Priwer
This pair of grips should be the ones on the revolver in the box. Note
the elaborate initials carved onto the right grip panel. They are C R W,
meaning Charles Wendell, the carver. I think the gun and box were
his.
This next picture is another of Wendell's own grips, but a different
design to the carving:
The next two pictures are smooth uncarved grips. Note the
outstanding wood:
Next is another carved pair, that may also have the C R W initials:
More to come, Mike Priwer
Kearsarge Ivory Stocks with Steerhead
This is a pair of K-frame ivory stocks:
Regards, Mike Priwer
This is a pair of K-frame ivory stocks:
Regards, Mike Priwer
Two pairs that I own.
These next two pictures are two guns that I own. They are full King
rib revolvers, with Kearsarge stocks. One has the initials HLC, that
stands for Harold Criger. The gun was shipped to him in Fairbanks,
Alaska, in 1937, and is a 44 special caliber. I think there is a
picture of him in Ed McGiverns book. This gun was shipped with
target sights.
The other gun is a 38/44, full King rib, and Kearsarge grips with the
initials HK. This gun was shipped to King Gunsight in 1938 as a
6 1/2 inch heavy duty. The invoice was specifically marked
"Not Target". I'm not sure who the initials H K represents.
Regards, Mike Priwer
These next two pictures are two guns that I own. They are full King
rib revolvers, with Kearsarge stocks. One has the initials HLC, that
stands for Harold Criger. The gun was shipped to him in Fairbanks,
Alaska, in 1937, and is a 44 special caliber. I think there is a
picture of him in Ed McGiverns book. This gun was shipped with
target sights.
The other gun is a 38/44, full King rib, and Kearsarge grips with the
initials HK. This gun was shipped to King Gunsight in 1938 as a
6 1/2 inch heavy duty. The invoice was specifically marked
"Not Target". I'm not sure who the initials H K represents.
Regards, Mike Priwer
mkflyfisherman
Member
GEEEEZZZZZZ!!!!!
ALL Those grips are beautiful and that box is AMAZING!!!!! As a "hobby" woodworker I'm really impressed. I REALLY didn't need t see these!!!
ALL Those grips are beautiful and that box is AMAZING!!!!! As a "hobby" woodworker I'm really impressed. I REALLY didn't need t see these!!!
JCS&W
US Veteran
Thank you again Mike for sharing those pics. Just amazing how truly talented some people are.
OFT II
US Veteran
Awesome. That is true artistry.
geoff40
Member
I think I am the guy a couple of threads have spoken of. I don't know much of anything about Roper grips, but I know a few things about Kearsarge and Charlie Wendell.
When a person ordered a set of Kearsarge stocks, Charlie sent them a paper with detailed instructions on tracing the shooting hand the stocks would be held by. Those oak leafs were carefully incorporated in to the stock, to fill the gap at knuckle-bends as the hand wrapped around the stock. At first those leafs just look nice, but there is more to them than meets the eye. Indeed, they might just be the best fitting grips you've ever put your hands around, if the original owner and yourself have hands nearly the same size.
Charlie's older children remember taking walks with him, in to the forest. During some of these walks he would bring a saw and shovel, and when he found the right tree he would cut it down and then dig out the base, for the wood burl he used. I doubt this is how he got all of his wood, but some of it for sure.
His early work was all done by hand, and then later he learned how to use a rotary tool, the early version of a Dremel.
He made that box. Others like it too. That box by the way, contains Charlie's RM, both now owned by a Wendell family friend, a name that would be recognized by pretty much everyone here.
I think Charlie was on the Canton Massachusetts PD Auxillary and their shooting team, back in the day, if not there in Canton then it would be a town in the area. The info I have isn't confirmed yet, and I haven't had time to make anything other than initial inquiries.
Charlie was a chemist by trade, and this stuff was more of a hobby. The site of his shop is now Warner Power, on Depot Street in Warner New Hampshire (where I am typing from), the wooden building he worked out of burned down long ago. The locals called it the crutch factory, and apparently Charlie was, at least briefly, the man in charge there. I have some old photos of it. I am not sure if any of them show the place as it was when he worked there, because they are undated photos, and according to what I've found out it burned more than once.
His first chemist job out of college, in Boston, had no lab for him to work out of, and apparently little money to buy one. Charlie got the equipment to blow glass and he literally taught himself to blow glass and made his own lab to work out of.
He also loved to play music, and he blew a glass coronet that really could be played. It was dropped one Christmas and shattered, all that is left today is the glass mouthpiece for it.
He was, in short, one of those guys with incredible amounts of talent and ability.
Ed McGivern loved Kearsarge stocks and had several sets of them. Elmer Keith apparently did not care for them, though Doug Wesson commissioned Charlie at least twice to carve ivory stocks for special, presentation 44 magnums, that went to Keith. I can not prove it, at least not yet, but I believe Charlie carved several other sets of ivories for other guns going to other people. He and Doug Wesson were friends. The set of ivory stocks pictured above is on a Model 34 (of all things!) and is owned by the Wendell family.
My photos are put away on CDs, but I will try and dig them out and maybe post a few shots here.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-re...imate-model-19-66-combat-magnum-thread-8.html
This link hopefully takes you right to my post in the "Ultimate Combat Magnum" thread here, where I posted a photo of Charlie's own 19-2, an early 6" 19 finished in nickel. I don't think there are many of them around. And, the nickel CM photo owned by one of his friends, with a marvelous-fitting set of smooth stocks Charlie made. If the link doesn't work quite right, it's all on page 8 of that topic.
When a person ordered a set of Kearsarge stocks, Charlie sent them a paper with detailed instructions on tracing the shooting hand the stocks would be held by. Those oak leafs were carefully incorporated in to the stock, to fill the gap at knuckle-bends as the hand wrapped around the stock. At first those leafs just look nice, but there is more to them than meets the eye. Indeed, they might just be the best fitting grips you've ever put your hands around, if the original owner and yourself have hands nearly the same size.
Charlie's older children remember taking walks with him, in to the forest. During some of these walks he would bring a saw and shovel, and when he found the right tree he would cut it down and then dig out the base, for the wood burl he used. I doubt this is how he got all of his wood, but some of it for sure.
His early work was all done by hand, and then later he learned how to use a rotary tool, the early version of a Dremel.
He made that box. Others like it too. That box by the way, contains Charlie's RM, both now owned by a Wendell family friend, a name that would be recognized by pretty much everyone here.
I think Charlie was on the Canton Massachusetts PD Auxillary and their shooting team, back in the day, if not there in Canton then it would be a town in the area. The info I have isn't confirmed yet, and I haven't had time to make anything other than initial inquiries.
Charlie was a chemist by trade, and this stuff was more of a hobby. The site of his shop is now Warner Power, on Depot Street in Warner New Hampshire (where I am typing from), the wooden building he worked out of burned down long ago. The locals called it the crutch factory, and apparently Charlie was, at least briefly, the man in charge there. I have some old photos of it. I am not sure if any of them show the place as it was when he worked there, because they are undated photos, and according to what I've found out it burned more than once.
His first chemist job out of college, in Boston, had no lab for him to work out of, and apparently little money to buy one. Charlie got the equipment to blow glass and he literally taught himself to blow glass and made his own lab to work out of.
He also loved to play music, and he blew a glass coronet that really could be played. It was dropped one Christmas and shattered, all that is left today is the glass mouthpiece for it.
He was, in short, one of those guys with incredible amounts of talent and ability.
Ed McGivern loved Kearsarge stocks and had several sets of them. Elmer Keith apparently did not care for them, though Doug Wesson commissioned Charlie at least twice to carve ivory stocks for special, presentation 44 magnums, that went to Keith. I can not prove it, at least not yet, but I believe Charlie carved several other sets of ivories for other guns going to other people. He and Doug Wesson were friends. The set of ivory stocks pictured above is on a Model 34 (of all things!) and is owned by the Wendell family.
My photos are put away on CDs, but I will try and dig them out and maybe post a few shots here.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-re...imate-model-19-66-combat-magnum-thread-8.html
This link hopefully takes you right to my post in the "Ultimate Combat Magnum" thread here, where I posted a photo of Charlie's own 19-2, an early 6" 19 finished in nickel. I don't think there are many of them around. And, the nickel CM photo owned by one of his friends, with a marvelous-fitting set of smooth stocks Charlie made. If the link doesn't work quite right, it's all on page 8 of that topic.
Last edited:
rburg
Member
You guys are making me feel real lucky for stumbling onto my one lonely set of Kearsarge grips, years ago. These days it keeps an old 44 3rd model company. Its one of two known target 4" guns. Mine shows the ravages of a good honest life. The grips look and feel good.
I've got a couple of sets of Keith's grips, purchased from him back when he was just getting started on his 2nd career. Guess I need to find a gun to store them on some day. It might be an excuse to buy a gun with the wrong wood just to give them a home.
I once owned a few sets of Ropers, too. For any number of reasons I ended up selling them. They just weren't what I liked.
I owned the Kearsarge grips for a few years before I had any idea who had made them. This thread keeps fleshing out more detais of the guy's grips. I still have no clue how many were made, or how some of them filtered down to this part of the country. The only ill feeling on the subject is now everyone knows what they are and I can't snatch them up quick and cheap!
I've maybe never been known for my good taste. But my take on the situation these days is if I see a set of Kearsarge grips for sale, I'll be seriously interested in buying them. If I see a set of Ropers, I'll pass.
I've got a couple of sets of Keith's grips, purchased from him back when he was just getting started on his 2nd career. Guess I need to find a gun to store them on some day. It might be an excuse to buy a gun with the wrong wood just to give them a home.
I once owned a few sets of Ropers, too. For any number of reasons I ended up selling them. They just weren't what I liked.
I owned the Kearsarge grips for a few years before I had any idea who had made them. This thread keeps fleshing out more detais of the guy's grips. I still have no clue how many were made, or how some of them filtered down to this part of the country. The only ill feeling on the subject is now everyone knows what they are and I can't snatch them up quick and cheap!
I've maybe never been known for my good taste. But my take on the situation these days is if I see a set of Kearsarge grips for sale, I'll be seriously interested in buying them. If I see a set of Ropers, I'll pass.
This is the nickel Mod 19 with smooth Kearsarge stocks, that Geoff
is referring to:
Mike Priwer
is referring to:
Mike Priwer
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