Got a new 442! Not impressed...

dbarale said:
...I also need to qualify with it in three weeks and figured I should ship it ASAP to get it back on time...
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You mean to say that this is your ONLY handgun? I don't want to chastise you as perhaps you are new to shooting, however, buying a handgun specifically to take a CCW course only a few weeks before is not S&W's fault. S&W will take care of you and rest assured that every returned handgun is duly noted and the person who did the initial work will be spoken with.

A problem is that today's society is not mechanically apt. We have engineers in this country who can't even turn on a lathe. Try & find a good local gunsmith who can work on these type of problems. You can't. We have taught our children to believe for the past 30 yrs. that a mechanical trade is for ignorant idiots and smart kids go to college. What's left is a lot of "flotsam" that couldn't get into college or didn't go for whatever reason, hence they go into a manufacturing job as it is the best paying that they can obtain. We have also shipped most manufacturing overseas and only the very high ends remains apart from most gun manufacturing. These are the people that S&W has to hire as floor workers and to try & teach them these skills can be an uphill battle. Colt for instance recently had ONE man aged over 70 doing revolver repairs and rumors are he's now gone. It's damned hard to teach these skills as the people most apt to learn them have gone to college in today's world and to a better paying job.

I am not making excuses for S&W but rather merely explaining to you the 'bed' we have made for ourselves here in the USA. It's a Walmart world now.
 
My ONLY new S&Ws are a 642-1 (NO LOCK) and a 617 with the IL. LUCKILY, both have been issue free and shoot very well..
 
Boge said:
You mean to say that this is your ONLY handgun? I don't want to chastise you as perhaps you are new to shooting, however, buying a handgun specifically to take a CCW course only a few weeks before is not S&W's fault.
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Nope, I'm a cop and I need to qualify with it so I can carry it on-duty as my backup. And I'm sorry but a few weeks should be plenty enough on a brand new gun. I foolishly expect new things to work as advertised, call me crazy...
 
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627 city hunter said:
If you are having light primer strikes tighten the stain screw by hand with a the right, flat-head, sized screwdriver. Google "stain screw". Could be whats causing your light primer strikes. its under your trigger on the metal butt on the gun near the bottom. Right is tight and left loose.
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I don't have light primer strikes and the Jframes do not have a strain screw. I am a little confused by your posts?
 
Tyrod said:
There's a simple answer to that. In the broad spectrum of manufacturing there are value added processes and non-value added processes. Each value added process contributes some measureable amount of worth to the end product. For example, suppose the product is at the part of the process where the barrel is attached to the frame. The frame has a calculatable value at that point, whereas, the barrel is just a part that has value but has yet to contribute to the worth of the product as a whole. Once the barrel is attached to the frame the value of barrel is added to worth of accumulated value of the frame.

In a non-value added process, such as an inspection, no value is added to a part or accumulated whole which passes inspection. In a factory that proclaims to use the 3 sigma manufacturing standards, enough inspections along with statistical process control should be "built in" to ensure that the end product would rarely fail. And that is where S&W is dropping the ball. Some inspections can be built into the manufacturing process such as precision measurement performed by a CNC milling machine post operation that only add seconds to the process. Some inspections require that a human being examine and measure parts or the whole. These human inspections are costly and contribute little to nothing to the value of the product. At least from a bean counter point of view.

S&W claims to be a 3 sigma manufacturer, in fact, they produce a line of semi auto pistols named SIGMA to commemorate the fact. Right now it appears that for whatever the reason S&W is under utilizing the inspection process to the detriment of the end product. the 3 sigma method nor statistical process control will help any if the limits are set too wide. It's common during lean times for management to justify processes that don't add value. I suspect that inspection personel have been moved from the inspection process to value added processes to keep up with the huge demand for guns right now. S&W is playing a dangerous game here. If their reputation gets damaged enough, eventually, the lack of quality control will cost them far more in lost sales than those frivolous inspection processes.
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With the increased number of gun being sold today to often the consumer becomes quality control. And a lot of folks dont shoot thier gun enough to know if they have a problem or not
 
Update on my S&W customer service...

Two month old BG38 "Bodyguard" snubbie sent back twice to make it function. Last week S&W CS said they couldn't repair it and I asked for a "post lock" 642 instead to replace it. The CS rep said it would be here by mid week.

I called today (Friday, two days after it was promised) since it had not arrived and found out the gun was held up at accounting for the last week awaiting on their approval to send to me. I left a voice mail for my CS rep to call me for an update and no response. I guess I should expect an answer sometime this summer? Why am I shocked...

I am rapidly approaching the credit my account point and I'll seek a functional defensive pistol elsewhere point. Man, it gets better by the day! I like my old S&W handguns, but they'll never have me for a customer again.

Edmo
 
On arriving to look at a model 60, I noticed a 642. As a carry firearm it made much more sense to carry that 642.
I purchased the almost new 1980 model 60 with it's orginal box, papers and cleaning gear.
Why? Because I knew the chances of it giving me any sort of a problem or having to call S&W for whatever reason were almost never going to happen.

I am not crapping on S&W as a company. I am happy that they still manufacture firearms one State away from me.
I also know that S&W is no small firearms company.
I do not have the numbers of the total revolvers made and sent out the door everyday, but it is not a small number.

The amount of good revolvers leaving is much larger than the bad. Years ago without a doubt the number of bad revolvers were much smaller and that brings me back to why I bought the more expensive 1980 model 60 over the much newer model 642.

One thing is for sure though, If I am carrying a revolver as a protection tool, it will work every day, every time and the day it needs a repair is the day it gets traded.
 
old bear said:
Totally correct, yet neither the Rolls or Rolex was designed and marketed as a potential life saving tool. With all do respect there is a big difference.
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Fair enough, but statistically you're much more likely to be in a car accident than a gun fight, and when you're in that car accident, systems like stability control, passive restraint and airbags usually mean the difference between walking away and not.

So even though a Rolls isn't marketed as a life-saving tool, it has that onus on its build quality coming out of the factory, just like a Smithie.

But the point was that even the best marques sometimes send out a dud -- an inescapable reality of the production line no matter the significance of the product or the care taken in making it, and the higher the output, the more duds that will get through even with good quality control in place.

The real issue is: is the producer doing its realistic best to control for duds, is the consumer educating him or herself to spot them, and does the producer make it right when one is brought to their attention by the consumer?
 
GF said:
We've had posts about cracked frames AFTER revolvers returned from factory service.
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I'm an avid (rabid?) Airweight Centennial fan and I don't recall anyone on here ever reporting receiving a cracked frame gun back from the factory. Can you provide a link?
 
moxie said:
You're awfully patient. I'd have been on the phone to S&W as soon as I encountered the cylinder opening difficulty. Hope it works out.
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With the new style yoke screw, most people have tendency to over-tighten them. You're not supposed to screw it down as hard as it'll go, just enough to be flush with the frame but not so much that the yoke drags. That's why you see the application of red Loctite on the screw from the factory.
 
Sorry for your troubles. The venerable S&W brand has taken some hits lately. Maybe they're moving too fast to fill orders and are sacrificing QC in the process. My dad instilled in me as a kid that if something is worth doing, it's worth doing right. In this regard, if a product is worth making, it's worth making right, especially a firearm upon which your life may depend.
 
Fedex says the 442 is back at the mothership, now the waiting begins...

I'll update when I get it back.
 
Got it back yesterday! The barrel alignement is fixed. No cracked frame, but I haven't shot it yet. The paperwork included says that they also replaced the firing pin and mainspring? I did not get a chance to open the sideplate to take a look inside.

I'm happy with the turnaround time and the results so far. Good save from S&W...
 
"Trigger is now great (though heavy, but it's a duty gun so no spring swap on this one)."

After a few thousand rounds of dry and live firing of my 3 year old 442-2 no lock, the trigger is now much easier to pull and quite smooth. This is important for me, as I have a lot of arthritis in my trigger finger. It just keeps getting better!

rat
 
dbarale said:
Got it back yesterday! The barrel alignement is fixed. No cracked frame, but I haven't shot it yet. The paperwork included says that they also replaced the firing pin and mainspring? I did not get a chance to open the sideplate to take a look inside.
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Seriously, dbarale, why don't you get out of law enforcement go into gunsmithing?

I would probably make the drive down to Asheville, NC just to have you work on my revolvers.

Right now I'm contemplating figuring out where allglock lives, driving up to PA and showing up at his door one moring to get him to work on my revolvers. :-)

You just can't find any good gunsmiths these days, at least not around the Washington, DC area.
 
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