357 Mag 158gr Study

[RDub]

Hello

This study will compare some of the popular 158gr 357 Mag factory loads against some of the more popular hand loads using a 158gr jacketed bullet, some old standbys and some newer powders, with respect to velocity and accuracy. I’ve been insatiably curious about this for some time. Now I have enough material on hand to put a decent study together.
For the handloads I’ll be using Hornady 158gr XTPs, new Winchester cases, primers are noted on the targets as well as loads.
The focus here was on top performers so I didn’t include some of the medium burning powders.
Average velocity, velocity spread, standard deviation and temperature are also noted on the targets.

Two guns will be used, a four inch Smith 686 and a six inch Taurus 608 eight-shot.
Velocity data was collected with an Oehler Model 33 chronograph. Skyscreens centered 10’ from muzzle.
Elevation 2700’ RH 45%
Targets will be at 25 yards. Circles are 5½”

All handloads were hand weighed.

Factory loads that will be evaluated;
Remington Express 158gr. JSP
Winchester 158gr. JSP
Hornady 158gr. XTP
And some Buffalo Bore 158gr JHP



The powders that will be loaded are;

296; old and new lots
H-110; old and new lots
2400
IMR 4227
AA #9
AA#7 (four rds)
ENFORCER
N-110
300-MP
Lil’Gun
Blue Dot



Two side notes I wanted to look at with the H-110/296 loads.
First, I have some very old lots of powder that I got back in the late seventies/early eighties. I have wondered if this powder has lost anything over this amount of time. I got some new powder so I can compare old and new.
Also I wanted to compare the CCI 550 primer against the Win WSPM primer with H-110/296. I used the new lots of powder to do this. The WSPM primer is supposed to be pretty hot.

Let’s first take a look at the factory loads;

Remington 158gr JSP:



Powder charge; 16.6grs of a powder that looks very much like 296/H-110.

https://s20.postimg.cc/hup5xqnul/DSC00922.jpg

https://s20.postimg.cc/kdauyf9kt/DSC00923.jpg

The bullet weighed 158.9grs

https://s20.postimg.cc/w3osft2d9/DSC00924.jpg

Winchester 158gr JSP:



Powder charge also 16.6grs.

https://s20.postimg.cc/8tamk4px9/DSC00926.jpg

https://s20.postimg.cc/fxsft5x6l/DSC00927.jpg

Bullet weighed 157.3grs.

https://s20.postimg.cc/4mudijfp9/DSC00928.jpg

Buffalo Bore 158gr JHP:



Powder charge 19.8grs of a shiny coarse sandy looking powder.

https://s20.postimg.cc/zfihvd4ql/DSC00930.jpg

https://s20.postimg.cc/6bu9z4gn1/DSC00931.jpg

The JHP bullet weighed 158.9grs.

https://s20.postimg.cc/k48our7el/DSC00932.jpg

And of course Buffalo Bore uses Starline brass.


I regret not taking a Hornady round apart before shooting them all up.

So, after loading all this up and spending a day out at the range, here is what I came up with..

Four inch 686;



I only had enough of the Hornady rounds to fire in the 6” this time, but I did shoot some out of the 4” gun last winter.



Factory loads shot pretty well out of the 4” gun. At 1320fps the Buffalo Bore is the stand alone performer. High velocity along with decent accuracy, as advertised. All the cases in every load fell out of the chambers after firing.

Handloads:

14.0grs ENFORCER; Ramshots data lists 14.0grs as maximum. Worked up to this point with no issues.

16.0grs IMR4227; An old lot in a DuPont metal can. This would be the time the batteries in my chronograph craped out. However I remember seeing velocities around 1080fps.

296/H-110; Well there is no difference between the old lots and the new, not enough to matter. These have always been good performers.

15.2 2400; This is THE quintessential 357 Mag load for decades. Fast and accurate.

13.8-14.5grs AA #9; Present AA loading data lists 13.8grs as max. I’ve seen older manuals which go much higher. 13.8grs did pretty well. However 0.7grs more powder produced a 0 fps velocity gain, so I went no further.

18.6 300-MP; Well, this powder is proving to be nothing short of phenomenal. Highest velocity tested and the most accurate, and you don’t need a magnum primer. Might just be my go-to powder from now on.. It does have quite a bark to it..

18.0grs Lil’Gun; Lots of flash and blast for not much velocity.

15.3 N-110; Compressed load.. about 110%. Good performer, only 22fps spread.

10.8grs Blue Dot; Great load!

11.5grs Blue Dot; Not as accurate as 10.8grs but serviceable.

Target #19; I had not tried 300-MP with 125gr bullets yet. This exceeds the fastest 125gr factory load. I thought exceeding the Rem UMC 125gr load was not possible until now.




Six inch Taurus;



For some reason the Remington factory load didn’t like the 6” Taurus, but the rest shot very well. Notice that the Buffalo Bore load lost its advantage with the 6” barrel. It was surpassed by 300-MP, 2400 and N-110.



H-110/296; Same as the 4” results, but notice the lower velocity with WSPM primers. I think CCI 550 are still the primer to use in this application.

IMR 4227; Chronograph working now.. Accurate, but slow.

N-110; Not as accurate in the longer barrel.

300-MP; Top performer as expected.

AA #7; I had four cases left, so what do I do with these?.. I’ll throw 11.5grs of AA #7 in them as see what happens. Well I wish I had four more!

Here is a graph of the entire project;



Well that’s about it.. My curiosity is satisfied.. Hope this answers more questions than it creates.
Lots of fun.

 

[JBnTx]

Very informative.

Do the same with 158gr SWC cast bullets.

 

[tappedandtagged]

Very nice. Enjoyed the post. Any more plans to test others? Would love to see this done with a snubby.

 

[chief38]

Well from what I can see of the results, your best bang-for-the-buck with hand loads is #13 and the best Factory load (when max power is required) is the Buffalo Bore. The same BB is my personal choice out of my .357's when I carry it. I hand-load some milder .357's for Range work and use hard cast bullets (158 gr) to practice with. Remember, lead has less resistance than copper in a barrel so less powder is required to achieve the same velocity. Nice testing!

Chief38

 

[Smith4646]

Thank you for the well done testing. The Buffalo's don't roam--so much as others!

 

[brucev]

Thank you for this post. You are fortunate to have access to a place where you can carry out such testing. W/ the S&W you have one handload that is most impressive. It's be hard to not just buy a keg of the 300-MP and start loading! The BB load is about the best factory load available for just about any bullet weight in any caliber.

Were you hand firing the groups or were you using a Ransom Rest, etc.? I ask because firing high intensity loads in a 4" barrel off sandbags can be interesting. If you are firing hand held, that would explain the improved results with the Taurus. The truth is I was surprised to see the Taurus produce such tight groups across the board. I was not aware that they were so capable.

Again, thank you for this post. By Christmas I hope to have my reloading outfit unpacked and set up for use. I want to develop some nice hot magnum loads for my 4" and 6" 28's ... and some similarly hot .38's for my 4" 15 and 19.

 

[old&slow]

Very Interesting information ,,,, THANKS

 

[kenjen]

thanks for the info, that was great. i bet you had a fun time doing it. nothing better than spending a day at the range.

 

[Rule3]

Great post!
Thanks for all the info and pictures.

I know how much "work" is involved but if it's fun it's not really work

Have you written up a summary or conclusion for all the data? Sort of like the info on the targets in a table or something?

 

[71firebird400]

Did you see a difference in unburned powder with the H110/296 loads between the two primers? I've been running H110 with WSPM's and have had to clean out behind the ejector star on occasion to close the cylinder. I'm wondering if changing primers could be a solution.

 

[forestswin]

Very informative.

Do the same with 158gr SWC cast bullets.

I will add the PLEASE

 

[RDub]

Hello

brucev I just used a Caldwell pistol rest.



I was a competitive shooter for a while so this kind of thing is pretty natural.

I would like to do something like this with SWC, but everyone would have to decide on a standard.
There are different Brinell Hardness #s with cast, gas check/no gas check, Lyman, RCBS, LEE and other styles,.. Lots of variables.

If everybody goes out and buys a box of Hornady, let's say, bullets, everyone is going to have the same thing. With jacketed bullets it's easier.

I can say that I have never been disappointed with the accuracy and performance of 2400 or AA#9 with cast bullets in 357mag.
Of course individual guns always have their preferences.

Rule3; you mean like building an Excel doc? Sometimes if I want to see things in a particular order I'll do that. Mostly I just keep digital copies of targets with the notations on them on file and backed up.

Thanks for the interest

 

[Rule3]

No, nothing elaborate, just a summary of the data on the the test targets and info you had under handloads.

such as:

xyz powder, bullet, velocity, spread, group size. comments

or something along those lines.

 

[DanWales]

.357 Test

Wow what a nice post.

I have a early 686 4 inch. For some reason it just happens to be one of the most accurate firearms I have ever shot.

Bbbuuuuut lemme tell ya a folks rest or no rest I have the same one that is some serious RED DOT SHOOTIN.

Matter of fact I'm trying hard to get over being extremely jealous.

I just started reloading .38 / .357 this year. Prior to that I was shooting factory.

From what I have read on this site as well as this post seems like the 148 HBWC is the better bullet to use. I have loaded some +P 38 with 158 LSWC Missouri the seem to be pretty consistant. I have loaded .357 with 2400 with the 158 Missouri LSWC they also seem to be pretty consistant.

Question please RDUB I can't see spending the money on brass and would like to stay with lead. No matches no hunting justa lot of fun like you trying to get a better group. If you don't mind in your experience what do you think has been the better LSWC or more than one maker ??

I read this site several times a day I just can't get over the amount of info that is passed along, and the good thing so far none of what I have read posted has turned out different than what the original poster wrote.

RDUB terrific info thank you for posting.

All secrets appreciated.

Dan

 

[RDub]

No, nothing elaborate, just a summary of the data on the the test targets and info you had under handloads.

such as:

xyz powder, bullet, velocity, spread, group size. comments

or something along those lines.

Well, let me backup.. With rifle loads, I keep a range log that I made up with Excel that includes all pertinent information that I need.. including all that you mention. I keep those in a range binder.
I used to do that more with handgun but lately I've been ok with just putting the info on the targets, taking a good digital pic and storing them in a specific folder on my computer. Baking up regularly of course.
I actually do a lot more range work with rifles than handguns.

 

[RDub]

Wow what a nice post.

I have a early 686 4 inch. For some reason it just happens to be one of the most accurate firearms I have ever shot.

Bbbuuuuut lemme tell ya a folks rest or no rest I have the same one that is some serious RED DOT SHOOTIN.

Matter of fact I'm trying hard to get over being extremely jealous.

I just started reloading .38 / .357 this year. Prior to that I was shooting factory.

From what I have read on this site as well as this post seems like the 148 HBWC is the better bullet to use. I have loaded some +P 38 with 158 LSWC Missouri the seem to be pretty consistant. I have loaded .357 with 2400 with the 158 Missouri LSWC they also seem to be pretty consistant.

Question please RDUB I can't see spending the money on brass and would like to stay with lead. No matches no hunting justa lot of fun like you trying to get a better group. If you don't mind in your experience what do you think has been the better LSWC or more than one maker ??

I read this site several times a day I just can't get over the amount of info that is passed along, and the good thing so far none of what I have read posted has turned out different than what the original poster wrote.

RDUB terrific info thank you for posting.

All secrets appreciated.

Dan

The LSWC I like is this one;



It's the MAGTECH 158gr LSWC.
I believe that is what you were asking..

 

[DanWales]

LSWC Info

Yesirreee that is what I was asking, now to figure where to buy some and see if I can get a group into the dot let alone and inch or two across. LOL

I did notice no lube grove. I take it they are coated ??

Sorry yes it does I see it now. Duh

Thank you

Dan

 

[Rule3]

If you are shooting target loads in 38 or 357 try the softer 158 gr LSWC from Missouri, the 12 BHN rather than the magnum 18 BHN, I find them very good for 38 target, light 357.

 

[parabarbarian]

Thank you for sharing your results.

 

[buck460XVR]

Nice informative post. I wish I was more diligent about writing things down and making factual comparisons. Instead I go shoot and when a load proves to be accurate and exhibits no signs of over pressure, I just stick with it. My chrony has been outta the box once......right after I first got it.

Only surprise I had was that anyone still used Lil' Gun in their revolvers. I too never got the results of increased velocities with lower pressure as compared to H110/W296 that the reloading world once claimed. Never got the accuracy outta it either. When the horror stories of the premature and excessive erosion caused by it came out, I quit using it all together. 4 years ago all anyone ever talked about when reloading for magnum handguns was Lil' Gun. Now it rarely comes up in conversation.