Challenging the Police

[glocknug]

First off, I would like to say that I am not a Patrol Officer on the street. I am simply posting my question based on what I have seen posted on several sites.

Why do some people think it is necessary to open carry a rifle through the steets of anytown USA just to get a reaction out of Law Enforcement? Doing this, just because you have the right to do so, gives every carrier a bad image.

Furthermore, why do those who open carry a pistol get so upset at Law Enforcment Officers when they respond to a citizen complaint of a guy carrying a gun? Why is it so impractical to talk to the Officer and to make sure everything is fine? A simple conversation solves the problem every time!

Lastly, why do those who exersice their second ammendment rights, feel like their rights are more important than other peoples rights? For Example, if a business doesnt want guns on their property, go somewhere else! Your rights are not more important than their rights!


I am getting frustrated with the Open Carriers who bait the police, and the people who think gun rights are somehow higher than property rights. I know several Officers, and I know what they go through. It hurts to know that the respect for Law Enforcement is gone these days...

 

[arjay]

It's a combination of a lack of judgement and drama queen look at me itis.

 

[cmort666]

First off, I would like to say that I am not a Patrol Officer on the street. I am simply posting my question based on what I have seen posted on several sites.

It's legal or it's not, PERIOD.

There are a plethora of LAWFUL activities that SOMEBODY (including cops) doesn't like. That in NO way justifies armed interference with them by police. I was once mindlessly berated by an elderly cleaner in a Lakewood, Ohio McDonalds for wearing an NRA ballcap. If he called the police on me, should they respond and interrogate me? During his tirade, he ADVOCATED the Holocaust. Should I have called the police because I was offended? Should he have had to explain himself to the police?

Furthermore, why do those who open carry a pistol get so upset at Law Enforcment Officers when they respond to a citizen complaint of a guy carrying a gun? Why is it so impractical to talk to the Officer and to make sure everything is fine? A simple conversation solves the problem every time!

A "citizen complaint" about a LEGAL ACTIVITY is just words. Coupling empty words with ILLEGITIMATE state activity makes things WORSE, not better.

And NO, a "simple conversation" DOESN'T solve the problem "every time". There are WAY too many documented instances of cops substituting ignorance and indeed sheer WHIM for the letter of the law. Once during an INADVERTENT exposure of my concealed firearm, a cop tried the BS "inducing panic" nonsense with me. Either he was ignorant or dishonest.

Lastly, why do those who exersice their second ammendment rights, feel like their rights are more important than other peoples rights? For Example, if a business doesnt want guns on their property, go somewhere else! Your rights are not more important than their rights!

I don't know about where you live, but in Ohio, "no guns" signs have the force of law. If there's a "no guns" sign, I don't enter armed. Of course I generally don't enter AT ALL, if I have a choice.

I am getting frustrated with the Open Carriers who bait the police, and the people who think gun rights are somehow higher than property rights. I know several Officers, and I know what they go through. It hurts to know that the respect for Law Enforcement is gone these days...

I've been frustrated with cops who substitute bluster and whim for enforcement of the law as it's written for a VERY long time.

 

[MichiganScott]

My local prosecutor has sent letters to the sheriff and police chief reminding them that open carry is legal. The State Police sent notification to all their members about the same thing.

The State Police notification even went so far to explain the legal definition of brandishing. People still get hassled when their concealed weapon inadvertently shows.

I don't carry openly because I don't want the attention, but both law enforcement, and more importantly the public, need to be educated that it is legal and safe. More power to those individuals that are willing to put up with the **** that law enforcement heaps on them to make the point that legal is legal, even if the LEO does not agree.

Having the public educated and on our side is most important. Even if they are not gun owners, they need to know that firearm ownership and use is a right that is under fire and in jeopardy. When the government is allowed to restrict one right, others will follow. Rights, once restricted, are next to impossible to get back.

On the other side, both my son-in-law and I have been pulled over for speeding while carrying concealed in the past six month. We both immediately notified the LEO of that fact and presented documentation. No tickets were issued and the LEO that pulled over my son-in-law even thanked him for exercising his rights and making his job easier.

 

[federali]

Open Carry

For some, I think open carry is a means of compensating for certain anatomical shortcomings. People open carrying have been assaulted, disarmed and shot with their own firearms. Tactically, it is always better to be a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Having spent my entire life in an anti-gun state, no one I know goes around baiting the police. Just three days ago, a NYPD detective shot and killed a motorist who allegedly reached under his seat. He wasn't armed. Too many trigger-happy cops on the job.

Also, if open carrying a long gun in an urban area, how are the police to know what your intentions are? Might you be heading to the local high school to settle some real or imagined grievance?

 

[Steve in Vermont]

Every state is different (and within states as well). In some communities OC wouldn't get a second look. In others the police would be called. The fact you can legally carry is one thing, the "why" is another. Everyone should ask themselves, why am I carrying a gun openly in public? For some folks it's "because it's my right". Yes it is, but other than being legal why are you doing so? That's a subjective question we all need to consider.

 

[RSWMTB]

ANy business that doesn't respect my right to carry must also not respect my hard-earned $. Therefore, they don;t need my business, or th ebusiness of all the friends and collegues I tell about them.



R

 

[cshoff]

<--snip-->...Also, if open carrying a long gun in an urban area, how are the police to know what your intentions are? Might you be heading to the local high school to settle some real or imagined grievance?

That's the beauty with living in a free country. It is none of their business what your "intentions" are. As long as what you are doing at the moment is lawful, and as long as their is no reasonable suspicion that you have just committed a crime or are about to commit a crime, then it's a moot point.

As to the subject brought up in the OP - I would NOT agree with someone who openly carries and then conducts themselves in a manner with the sole purpose of forcing an interaction with the police so they can video/voice record the incident to try to make the police look bad. As an example of the kind of behavior I am talking about, there was a guy some time back on one of the gun forums that made known his plan to go to a very public intersection with his openly carried firearm and "preach" from the sidewalk, and then call the police HIMSELF to make a "third person" report of a "MWAG" that was behaving erratically/suspiciously so as to illicit a negative reaction from the police that he could video tape. That is not only a waste of law enforcement time and resources, but it is also a very irresponsible exercise of a right (and possibly illegal with the untruthful 911 report).

That said, somebody who is simply openly carrying a firearm in a jurisdiction where said carry is legal, should not arbitrarily be subject to detainment, questioning, interrogation, etc anymore than someone who is simply wearing a red shirt should be. We don't afford law enforcement in this country the right or authority to preemptively detain/arrest/interrogate people that they think could POSSIBLY do something unlawful at a future time and place - at least not on a whim. We have actual legal standards that must be met, ie: Reasonable Articulable Suspicion or Probable Cause, before any such actions can legally be taken. In most states in which I am aware of the laws, participating in a LEGAL activity does NOT constitute RAS or PC.

 

[ladder13]

 

[venomballistics]

I used to open carry nearly every weekend.
I had one LEO encounter and that was only because he had interest in the gun.
Its all about the context. Im my case my 100 yard range was the back yard but when I really wanted to stretch the legs of an arm i had to flat foot it down the road a quarter mile and make use of 130 acres worth of field. This was especially true any time after it rained as the woods swarmed with mosquitoes the size of airliners.
couldnt use a vehicle either .. the nature of the terrain made for a few spots where your ride would be hopelessly swamped.
Open carry is for simple times in simple places.
I guess to the letter of the law, I could sling a rifle over my shoulder and hoof it across town with a few 50 cal ammo cans full of center fire goodness ... not a great career move though. The police might be up to speed, assuming they are, I still have to worry about the civilian population. Im not the only one with arms, and unlike the police, common citizens don't have jail cells. If they misunderstand the law, and feel compelled to deal with you, it'll be with a bullet.

 

[Old cop]

While we do not accord law enforcement the authority to detain and or question otherwise lawful activity, LEO's do have to respond to a complaint of a man w/a gun. Open carry will result in this call in many places the cops have to do their job.

I don't open carry and never will, but for reasons of my own. Thankfully we live in a free society where it is legal to do so, but I do question the wisdom of this practice under some circumstances.

 

[Arik]

I prefer concealed cary but thats just me. In overall in Pa cops wont hassle you for OC. But most of that is in the suburbs or in the sticks. If you try that in Philly its a 50/50. A lot will depend on what area of the city you are in and how you are dressed.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[StatesRightist]

WE'VE HAD this discussion OVER AND OVER, the whole property rights part of it drama. It is not a simple issue, the only thing simple is the mind of those who think it is.

I also have to say, your diatribe sounds more like an Anti-Gunner than a firearms enthusiast. Your focus is on the few poor examples, not the 98% of owners who are considerate of others.

Maybe I'm missing your intent, so if I am, feel free to explain exactly what that was, thanks.