The Russian shield: Mosin-Nagant rifle

[CW Spook]

It seems that most of the criticism over quality comes from folks who have only handled the 1943 (+/- 6mo) production versions when the factories, particularly Izhevsk, stopped doing fine finish work in the interest of high-volume war production. Pre-1942 and post-1944 Mosins are generally finished very well. Ugly or beautiful may be in the mind of the beholder. I personally find the 1898 Krag a much more attractive rifle than the 1903 Springfield, and the Mosin more attractive than the Japanese Arisaka.

 

[Rule3]

Whats a ballpark price for the Carbine (shorter) version with no bayonet. It is Tula marked and is a round receiver,?? Has laminated wood. Are they that much more than the longer standard ones that everyone is selling?

 

[wheelgun28]

Around here M44s bring $150 to $200. Being a laminated might add to that number. Nice M44s arent in stock right now and when they are they sell out pretty quick.

Whats a ballpark price for the Carbine (shorter) version with no bayonet. It is Tula marked and is a round receiver,?? Has laminated wood. Are they that much more than the longer standard ones that everyone is selling?

 

[CW Spook]

Tula carbines are considered fairly rare. AFAIK they were only produced in 1944, all other carbines being produced at Izhevsk. A laminated '44 M38 Tula carbine should be worth $250 or more if you find a serious collector.

Here's a couple of 'em. The one in the rear is a Tula hex-receiver M44, and the one in the front is a Tula M38.

 

[DGNY]

Thank you for the informative and well-written article.

Not a sophisticated maneuver, but the front sights can be easily adjusted a bit for windage by bending the front post within the protector very slightly and progressively with a small screwdriver inserted through the small hole in top of sight protector. Lengthening the front post has been known to be done with short section from a hollow coffee stirrer, adjusted for height/windage and a drop of glue applied.

They are satisfying rifles, esp the Finnish Model 39s, rather a deluxe take on the M-N. I also like the M44s; and take off the bayonet and rezero the front wire blade as mentioned.

Regards,

Dyson

 

[Rule3]

Tula carbines are considered fairly rare. AFAIK they were only produced in 1944, all other carbines being produced at Izhevsk. A laminated '44 M38 Tula carbine should be worth $250 or more if you find a serious collector.

Here's a couple of 'em. The one in the rear is a Tula hex-receiver M44, and the one in the front is a Tula M38.

Nice! Do the carbines have fold away bayonets or no bayonet?

I was/have never been thrilled with the Nagant but I do like the carbine size better as to looks and feel.

 

[walnutred]

In August the LGS got a batch 20 of M44s that he was selling for $249 each. In the lot was one very nice Tula with actual matching numbers and I've regretted not buying it ever since. The whole lot was gone in 2 weeks. The last flier I received from SOG had m44s for $180 plus shipping.

 

[LVSteve]

Nice! Do the carbines have fold away bayonets or no bayonet?

I was/have never been thrilled with the Nagant but I do like the carbine size better as to looks and feel.

Only the M44 carbine has a foldaway bayonet. As I said above, the M38, 91/38 and 91/59 carbines were never used with a bayonet nor will a standard rifle bayonet fit them.

 

[CW Spook]

The M44 has the attached bayonet, the M38 was the engineer/tanker version which was never intended to be used with one. There are a couple of other carbine variants, the M1891/38 and the M91/59 which were later production guns made from cut-down long rifles. They are also designed for use sans-bayonet. Those, and the original M38 are somewhat more scarce than the M44s which were produced in large numbers from 1943 until 1948. The M38s were produced from 1939-1945 in smaller numbers. The 1891/38 and the M91/59 were produced in smaller numbers still. There are also a couple of turn-of-the-century (20th that is) carbine models that are so scarce as to be essentially museum only items.

 

[DWalt]

The real collector M-N stars are the various Finnish models. I have only one, which is the Finnish M91/24 Civil Guard carbine, somewhat unusual among even Finnish M-Ns. Most Finnish M-Ns are not in the best cosmetic condition, definitely not beauty queens. Virtually all were made up of either captured or purchased Russian M-Ns, and it is typical to see them with their original serial numbers defaced and newer SNs stamped. Some have Swiss SIG barrels (mine does). Mine shows evidence of a lot of hard use on the metal, but was apparently given a new replacement stock made in two pieces finger-grooved together, which is in perfect condition.

From a collector perspective, the Finnish M-Ns are much scarcer than the Russian versions, and are therefore considerably more desirable and expensive. Aside from my own, I have not seen any Finnish rifle for many years.

 

[wheelgun28]

Another thing that influences value is import marks, if it has one, where its located, really just how ugly is the mark?

Last year a local shop had a Westinghouse for under $200, it wasnt new but not horrible. I am sorry I didnt buy it...

Heres another fun aspect of MNs

Like stepping back in time. Its an odd feeling opening this stuff when you know it was made to be pointed as us...

 

[Dpris]

My comments on quality were based on my own rifles: the sporterized 1940 Tula I shot today after a work session with a Century AK variant, a 1943 Izzy, and a 1938 Tula.
Had a '34 hex here for a while.
They're done well enough, but nothing spectacular.
I've handled several others & looked them over carefully.

The Soviets made sure the quality was there where it needed to be, and I'm not knocking the guns, they just didn't worry too much about areas where things didn't have to be more precisely machined.
Denis

 

[zoom6zoom]

One of the neat things about Mosins is that there are so many variations, a collector never need get bored.

Here's an interesting Finnish variant, the M28/76. They reworked them for use as sniper training / competition rifles. They have diopter sights.

 

[Oscarflytyer]

I got a garand from CMP last week and have considered a M91/30 from Dunhams, on sale this week for $99 I think.

How 'shootable' are they do you think? I plan to shoot CMP garand matches and the 91/30 I beleive would qualify for CMP Vintage Military.

IMO - best $100 rifle you will ever buy and enjoy shooting! I have 3 - a pair of the arsenal reworks for $89 and a Finn capture - can't remember what I paid, but wasn't more than about $150 back when! Cheapest milsurp rifle you can buy AND shoot!

 

[Road Rat]

I got lucky last year when I received a TULA from 1933 with the hex receiver and all matching serial numbers!!

Also got the accessories package. Nice.

 

[Rule3]

The M44 has the attached bayonet, the M38 was the engineer/tanker version which was never intended to be used with one. There are a couple of other carbine variants, the M1891/38 and the M91/59 which were later production guns made from cut-down long rifles. They are also designed for use sans-bayonet. Those, and the original M38 are somewhat more scarce than the M44s which were produced in large numbers from 1943 until 1948. The M38s were produced from 1939-1945 in smaller numbers. The 1891/38 and the M91/59 were produced in smaller numbers still. There are also a couple of turn-of-the-century (20th that is) carbine models that are so scarce as to be essentially museum only items.

How do I tell if it is a "true"44 and not a chopped version? The one I am looking at doe snot have a bayonet. In fact how does one determine the Model at all, Not like they are stamped like a S&W. Is there a code book for all the marks and stamps?

 

[Fishslayer]

The M44 has the attached bayonet, the M38 was the engineer/tanker version which was never intended to be used with one. There are a couple of other carbine variants, the M1891/38 and the M91/59 which were later production guns made from cut-down long rifles. They are also designed for use sans-bayonet. Those, and the original M38 are somewhat more scarce than the M44s which were produced in large numbers from 1943 until 1948. The M38s were produced from 1939-1945 in smaller numbers. The 1891/38 and the M91/59 were produced in smaller numbers still. There are also a couple of turn-of-the-century (20th that is) carbine models that are so scarce as to be essentially museum only items.

Don't forget the Poles. They made M44s from (IIRC) late '40's to mid-'50s?

Then there were the M38s living in M44 furniture...

This is my unissued '53 Polish dog. Yes, it shoots better with the bayo deployed.

 

[LVSteve]

How do I tell if it is a "true"44 and not a chopped version? The one I am looking at doe snot have a bayonet. In fact how does one determine the Model at all, Not like they are stamped like a S&W. Is there a code book for all the marks and stamps?

These sites should keep you busy for a day or two.

7.62x54r.net

Mosin Nagant

If you look at this page http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinRef01.htm you will see that it lists 100 variants, and this is before you get into which arsenal built certain types.

 

[Rule3]

These sites should keep you busy for a day or two.

7.62x54r.net

Mosin Nagant

If you look at this page Mosin Nagant Master Model Reference you will see that it lists 100 variants, and this is before you get into which arsenal built certain types.

Oh goody! PICTURES! I like pictures. Thanks!

 

[Fishslayer]

If you look at this page Mosin Nagant Master Model Reference you will see that it lists 100 variants, and this is before you get into which arsenal built certain types.

And the neat thing is you can collect a pretty good percentage of them & not go over $200 a rifle.

Shooting your piece of history with $80/440 rds ammo is nice, too.