What is the advantage of Pinned Barrels?

[Jim NNN]

For me, I can tell at a glance the possible date or an era by a visual que like a pinned barrel or number of sideplate screws. And so can everyone else, making the gun instantly recognizable as vintage.

I don't debate whether a pinned barrel is an advantage or not. In part, because I started this exact same thread a couple of years ago, and never got a conclusive or convincing argument yay or nay.

I like the old S&W revolvers, though, because they're from an era when product QUALITY was still a function of CRAFTSMANSHIP. There weren't robotics or CNC machines back then. They were good because someone who knew what they were doing took the time to put them together right. Is the world's best big screen TV good because of craftsmanship, or technology and circuitry?

I don't know, but it's not like the old days. I'm not saying new S&W's aren't good. My two post-pin 64's (one's post lock) are very good.

 

[mkk41]

Yah, non-interference fit. Probably a bit tighter spec than 3A and 3B, which is where normal classifications end in my Machinery's Handbooks. Had enough barrels off other the years to notice these little things.

(In the 20th ed. the UN series charts only go up to 32tpi. Doing a 36tpi tolerance window is a bit more trouble than I'm will to go right now, but given incentive, I reckon the thread mics could be broken out and the ciphering commenced.)

TRR8

No particular difference after aalll this time...

Sorry to steal any thunder from you, shawn mccarver, but.

OK , so you do know where I'm coming from. I've taken a few pinned barrels out and in my experience , once ya get the pin out and break it loose , the thread fit was very smooth , but not very tight at all. Felt like a slightly tight micrometer. They also took about or maybe even less than 1/8 turn from when the shoulder hit the frame till the barrel clocked straight up and down.

I've see new Smiths with obvious 'smeared' metal on the front of the frame where the shoulder of the barrel butted up. And the 2 I did try to unscrew , I stopped because there is no reason they should be that tight.

And while I haven't taken a set of ring and plug gages to a barrel & frame , I still believe the H-limit between the barrel and aluminum frames it too tight, which is why they're cracking at the thinnest area.

And as for stainless galling , well , I've been a prototype machinist/ tool & die maker for over 25yrs , dabbled in gunsmithing for as long and currently work for an aerospace company. I've worked in quite a bit and different types of stainless. I always have production bringing in parts with galled threads/screws from assembly people who didn't use moly-disulfide lube and tried to torque it home.

 

[jaymoore]

...I've see new Smiths with obvious 'smeared' metal on the front of the frame where the shoulder of the barrel butted up. And the 2 I did try to unscrew , I stopped because there is no reason they should be that tight.

And while I haven't taken a set of ring and plug gages to a barrel & frame , I still believe the H-limit between the barrel and aluminum frames it too tight, which is why they're cracking at the thinnest area.

And as for stainless galling ,... I always have production bringing in parts with galled threads/screws from assembly people who didn't use moly-disulfide lube and tried to torque it home.

The clocking issue is a different matter altogether! Smith seems to have wrestled with barrel shoulder "timing" for quite a while. It's one good reason to pull a barrel that might not be shooting all that well- too dadgummed tight! Enlarges the bore at the shoulder area. Usually noticable as a slight fouling variation. Taking some of the tension off helps sometimes. But getting the bugger off the first time can be questionable...especially stainless versions. Galled shoulders are common. Have yet to see the threads gall from the factory, though.

I like the old S&W revolvers, though, because they're from an era when product QUALITY was still a function of CRAFTSMANSHIP. There weren't robotics or CNC machines back then. They were good because someone who knew what they were doing took the time to put them together right. Is the world's best big screen TV good because of craftsmanship, or technology and circuitry?

I don't know, but it's not like the old days. I'm not saying new S&W's aren't good. My two post-pin 64's (one's post lock) are very good.

ETA: The two piece and three piece barrel assemblies are probably the "Swiss engineering" solution to the torquing/clocking problem. Adds parts and complexity but makes assembly easier and faster.

 

[mkk41]

The clocking issue is a different matter altogether! Smith seems to have wrestled with barrel shoulder "timing" for quite a while.

ETA: The two piece and three piece barrel assemblies are probably the "Swiss engineering" solution to the torquing/clocking problem. Adds parts and complexity but makes assembly easier and faster.

Yep , kinda like torquing a cap screw too tight and having the head pop off. That's what the above pictured Ruger first brought to mind.

And the 2-3 piece barrel shroud certainly worked for the Dan Wesson revolvers.

 

[buckspen]

Colts with pinned barrels

There is really no engineering advantage. One piece barrels are installed exactly the same way today as when they had the pin. The pin did not "hold the barrel on" or anything like that.

It is all about preference for what is perceived to be an indication of the "good old days."

Colt and Ruger never used pinned barrels.

That's not exactly true. When Colt introduced the Frontier Scout in 1958, it had an aluminum frame and steel barrel. In 1960, they added a model with Zamac (zinc alloy) frame and steel barrel. Shooters found that the barrels would sometimes start to unscrew themselves. Apparently this was due to the different qualities of the alloy frames and steel barrels. Colt started pinning barrels on these guns in 1964 and that obviously eliminated the problem. The pinned barrels lasted until 1970 when these guns were discontinued. The next generation of Colt .22 single actions (Peacemaker .22 and New Frontier .22) used steel frames and barrels and never experienced the problem.

- - - Buckspen

 

[scwv67]

I didn't know Ruger made a take down revolver.

I saw one of those at the range a few months back. It "took down" right there after the owner pulled the trigger.

 

[brokenprism]

How many times did the guy who bought that Redhawk hear about how much stronger Rugers were than Smiths? How many times did he congratulate himself on his prudent choice of an indestructible revolver that would eat anything he put in it? : )

 

[Warren Sear]

I didn't know Ruger made a take down revolver.

Yeah; every now and then you'll come across one...

 

[S&W-Keeper]

Well uh! you have better bragging rights.

 

[BillyMagg]

Whether they made the threads on the barrel ever so slightly bigger , or the threads in the frame slightly smaller to achieve the tighter 'interference' fit , something has to move as two pieces of material cannot be in the same spot. Either the hole in the frame is gonna stretch (like all those cracked aluminum J's) , or the threaded shank of the barrel has got to somehow shrink , perhaps giving a tight spot in the bore and ruining accuracy. A plug gage down the bore has shown this. Also , when trying to thread such tight fits together , ya run the risk of galling before ya get it fully threaded in. We've seen far more revolvers with cracked frames or broken barrels than we ever saw with pinned barrels.

Especially Rugers.

I'd jusssss like to know why you took your hammer and broke that purty rugggger, you know thats the strongest revolvulator on the planet, and castings are mucccchh stroooonger than those old cheap forgings, if I had 5 bucks for every time I heard that lie, I'd say thats right out of the pit-o-hell, I traded my last cast receiver off today, a 94 Winchester Classic Supergrade, for a 1966 Browning Safari, with an FN Action in 22-250, and a wad o cash, although aren't the ruger barrels sposed to be forged? well, what do I know, besides that little bitty pencil barrel on that Safari is cool, and weighs about 3 pounds less than that Classic? Billy

But that thar are a cast baarrell, ain't it? Billy Magg

 

[Az Rick]

Ah, but the pinned barrels are classy. Sort of like wearing a penny in your penny loafers,...classic.

I think I just aged myself!

Best, Rick