I feel let down by the NRA speech

[redlevel]

Does anyone else remember the LEAA program under the Nixon Administration? It was pretty much direct grants to state and local agencies, with fairly broad leeway as to how the money was spent. I would like to see some kind of direct grant program whereby school systems can use the money to hire certified LEO for each school, or for each X number of students. The only strings should be that the money has to be used for salaries for the officers. This would keep the enforcement people under control of locals rather than the Feds. School systems could choose to coordinate with local agencies.

I am very leery of arming citizens to act as guards in the schools. I am leery of putting the burden of armed resistance on teachers. If my local system called for volunteers for armed guards, there would probably be 1000 volunteers, and probably 20 of them would be actually qualified. As far as allowing teachers to carry concealed, I don't have a problem with that. However, just because someone is qualified for a state's license, that doesn't necessarily mean he or she is qualified to engage a madman with an AR. What I'm saying is that armed teachers are fine, but they won't replaced someone with some good training.

 

[DelFuego]

I can't comment on the content because I haven't been able to see the entire speech yet. What did strike me almost immediately when I saw the excerpt I have seen was the poor delivery of the speech. I expected a more "polished" presentation. Although I'm sure it's not the case, Mr. LaPierre appeared to be ill prepared and ill at ease. Considering many on the "other side" are politicians, news media, actors, etc., all of whom make their living on their public image/impression, I think the presentation of " our side" fell short.
I hope it was just my perception.

I saw, heard, the whole speech and it just embarrassed me. It was what the "other side" was waiting for. The NRA has given them more "ammunition" (no pun intended) to fuel their side of the debate. I could have had a freshman in high school do a better job.

By the way, I don't want any of my comments to be misconstrued. I am all for gun rights and the 2nd Amendment. I am not bashing the NRA as a whole, just the speech that was given a few hours ago.

 

[kudzu3]

Armed and trained volunteers organized at the local level. Keep the federal government out of it.

 

[ray45]

We find the money the same place we find money to hire teachers. Just means one more employee on the job for each school.

 

[diamonback68]

There are about 99,000 schools in the United States. So, if an officer makes about $65,000 a year, then it would cost about $6,435,000,000 to pay for a program like this. Where is the money going to come from? The school I work for has old computers, dilapidated books, and overflowing students in every classroom. Funding for schools has been dropping for years, and we are supposed to further cut education to put an armed officer in every school?

No body is saying further cuts to education, this is not an education problem and no one is asking schools to pay for this. It's a national security problem, don't mix the two.

They already spend more than $6,435,000,000 on TSA and Air Marshalls. Have they stopped any more World Trade Tower incidences, no one knows for sure, but there hasn't been another one since 9/11.

 

[BigBill]

Were sitting on a gold mine of experienced combat vets who don't have jobs to come home too or there laid off. These vets can function in any situation and during any situation. There already trained so why not use them and give them a good job too. We owe them that for sure.

After 9/11 we have metal dectors in every state and federal building besides state police guards we forget to protect our schools in the process. We need to close that loop hole now. I also say to arm two or more teachers also.

How can we put a price our protecting those cute little faces(our childern)???

I think the NRA did the smart thing lets get everyone in the ground first in newtown,ct as respect to them then more will come out. We need to heal and go slow.

One more problem is the CCW permit holders can't carry in every building in CT. This will cause the protecting guns not to be were they should be.

 

[DelFuego]

The speech failed many of the following principles about persuasion:

1. Timing is everything. Knowing how to persuade people correctly largely depends on the right time to talk to them. Approach people when they are more relaxed and you will achieve far better results.

2. Smile. Be polite, cheerful, and charismatic. A good attitude will help you more than you think. People will hear what you have to say without thinking that you want to force your point of view on them.


3. Show them all the benefits of your idea. (If possible, tell them how it will benefit them. That always gets their attention.)

4. Minimize any gain you stand to receive should the person choose your preferred course of action.

5. Prepare for any contradictions and be ready for any that you may not have thought of.


6. Don't be afraid to agree with the person a little. Say things like: "Okay, but..." or "Yeah except..." or just say yes but don't let them completely prove you wrong. However it is always okay if you hear what they have to say and try to adapt their idea to your idea.

7. Try to find out why the other person is rejecting your preferred course of action. If you can find out why, it gives you a tactical advantage.

8. If you realize that you may have been wrong in one aspect then admit it. It will make you seem more trustworthy.

9. Ask them just to consider it and think about your idea, given time to think they may realize their mistakes.

10. Be generous with your opponent; give them something they want, and they will be more inclined to give you something you want.

11. All persuasion should be suggestive not demand. But at the same time know what you want.

12. In general when trying to convince someone always talk about positive things and pleasant memories, never bad things that happened. Not about personal life experiences.

13. Try not to appear to be going to great lengths to persuade somebody. In fact, you are most persuasive when your audience does not know you are attempting to persuade them.

14. At times, it helps to let your audience know that something is really, really, really important to you, and other times it does not; use discretion.

15. Most importantly, know when to give up. Your opponent may find you talking very annoying. If your opponent perceives you as a pest, it will make you much less persuasive in the future.
_____________________
(These 15 points were found at the following website: How to Persuade People: 15 steps - wikiHow)

 

[LVSteve]

The media chuffing that there was no Q&A sessions is a joke. The NRA and everybody else knows what all the questions will be. "Is it reasonable to own a semi-auto rifle with a 30 round magazine" and all the other old saws. Wayne did not wish, or need, to go over the same old ground. America is about choice, not need. That's why I drive a 420hp car to work, because I want to and I can afford it. My CHOICE. It's the same with my guns, and long may it continue.

 

[keith44spl]

The speech failed many of the following principles about persuasion:

1. Timing is everything. Knowing how to persuade people correctly largely depends on the right time to talk to them. Approach people when they are more relaxed and you will achieve far better results.

2. Smile. Be polite, cheerful, and charismatic. A good attitude will help you more than you think. People will hear what you have to say without thinking that you want to force your point of view on them.


3. Show them all the benefits of your idea. (If possible, tell them how it will benefit them. That always gets their attention.)

4. Minimize any gain you stand to receive should the person choose your preferred course of action.

5. Prepare for any contradictions and be ready for any that you may not have thought of.


6. Don't be afraid to agree with the person a little. Say things like: "Okay, but..." or "Yeah except..." or just say yes but don't let them completely prove you wrong. However it is always okay if you hear what they have to say and try to adapt their idea to your idea.

7. Try to find out why the other person is rejecting your preferred course of action. If you can find out why, it gives you a tactical advantage.

8. If you realize that you may have been wrong in one aspect then admit it. It will make you seem more trustworthy.

9. Ask them just to consider it and think about your idea, given time to think they may realize their mistakes.

10. Be generous with your opponent; give them something they want, and they will be more inclined to give you something you want.

11. All persuasion should be suggestive not demand. But at the same time know what you want.

12. In general when trying to convince someone always talk about positive things and pleasant memories, never bad things that happened. Not about personal life experiences.

13. Try not to appear to be going to great lengths to persuade somebody. In fact, you are most persuasive when your audience does not know you are attempting to persuade them.

14. At times, it helps to let your audience know that something is really, really, really important to you, and other times it does not; use discretion.

15. Most importantly, know when to give up. Your opponent may find you talking very annoying. If your opponent perceives you as a pest, it will make you much less persuasive in the future.
_____________________
(These 15 points were found at the following website: How to Persuade People: 15 steps - wikiHow)

.
Ya don't say.....

Ya haven't persuaded me yet...Try again








Su Amigo,
Dave


To any of the Doubtin Thomas's here 'bouts....Want see my bullet holes?

 

[Pointshoot]

IMO it seems that most of us are falling for the 'sucker's game'.

Some are advocating expansion of police & even military into schools and other places.
More restrictions and 'reasonable guncontrol' including registration. Even going into everyone's medical records to see if you might be 'unstable'.

Its the 'do something, - - - anything' mentality - - - even to defend against events which have an extremely small probability of happening.

There are consequences to decisions & actions based on emotion. Ever wonder what crimes the cop sitting all day at a school might have been able to prevent if he'd been in an actual high violent crime area instead ?

All the school buses without seatbelts are likely a greater danger to school children than nut case psych med taking mass shooters.

 

[Tenn2]

It would be relatively easy and cheap to train citizens to guard our schools. IMO, for what its worth.

The instructors at POST do not work 24/7/365. I would bet they would volunteer some of their time to train civilians in a modified program to be SROs. Remember they would only be at school while it is in session. Say a three month program that is taught at the local level. You could have night classes say 2 nights a week. Then after training work with current SROs for a month.
Russ

 

[BigBill]

Ok they will ban anything over 31+ rounds on the magazines? Is that ok? (example)

If they ban 30rd mags then the bad guy will carry three 10rd mags. (example)

My point is nothing is going to make sence.

What i want is;

A nation wide CCW permit so i can carry a consealed handgun in any state, this will also allow this card / license to be put threw a card reader at the gun shop so i can purchase any gun in any state too. Give the good CCW gun guys something.....

 

[gtmtnbiker98]

I think they did a fine job. At least they weren't apologizing on our behalf. I for one have nothing to feel ashamed of nor will I apologize for the actions of a criminal.

 

[JcMack]

I just think that the NRA blew a great opportunity to speak to America about reasonable gun control. As for having to register every gun that I have to purchase, so be it. As for banning black rifles, just paint them pink.

Reasonable gun control is not what the anti's are after. They wish to disarm us all. It will start with bans of certain weapons, devolve into registration, and result in total confiscation. The crazies won't stop. They'll continue their manic obsession to make people as miserable as they, by killing our children, all the while hiding their cowardice and committing their crimes in "gun free" zones. When guns are banned they'll use whatever necessary to perpetrate atrocities in the name of their last self aggrandizement attempt on Earth.
Kids around here are dropping out, leaving the school system at a rate approaching 50%. Some of the teachers involved could stand to lose their jobs adding to a fund for security people. We send Billions in aid to Pakistan for example, and are far and away the biggest financial supporter of the UN. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot via money down the toilet.

 

[Beruisis]

can be done & should be done.
Beruisis

 

[ladder13]

If you knew what we pay around here for school taxes, we should have an armed officer in EACH classroom, not just one in the whole school.

 

[Rule3]

What has changed in this Country is that the Government seems to think and believe that WE work for them, not that THEY work for US.

I worked in a Alternative High School (had an office there) with another State Agency. This school was built brand new for all the misfits who got kicked out of regular High School or for girls who were pregnant or had babies so they could continue their education and take care of baby.

The amount of money spent was in the millions. I saw the amount of supplies and equipment ordered and received, it was sickening. For what?? Half the students got kicked out for good. We had 3 full time officers at the school. Constant fighting, drugs, weapons etc.

When I went to school we did not have barbed wire fences and metal detectors, almost all schools do now.



Don't say we can not afford it. As mentioned so many retires would do it for free.

 

[Pointshoot]

It would be relatively easy and cheap to train citizens to guard our schools. IMO, for what its worth.

The instructors at POST do not work 24/7/365. I would bet they would volunteer some of their time to train civilians in a modified program to be SROs. Remember they would only be at school while it is in session. Say a three month program that is taught at the local level. You could have night classes say 2 nights a week. Then after training work with current SROs for a month.
Russ

As Ive mentioned before . . . I think the emotional hype is out of proportion to the true probablity of such events happening.

That said, IMO its an excellent idea to have the type of program for civilian volunteers that you mentioned. And the repeal of No Gun Zone laws is a must. - - - I've never heard of school shootings in Kenneshaw, Georgia - - - the town where gun ownership is legally required of all citizens.

 

[chief63]

NRA blew it. Spoke to their base, not America.

 

[james56]

The speech failed many of the following principles about persuasion:

1. Timing is everything. Knowing how to persuade people correctly largely depends on the right time to talk to them. Approach people when they are more relaxed and you will achieve far better results.

2. Smile. Be polite, cheerful, and charismatic. A good attitude will help you more than you think. People will hear what you have to say without thinking that you want to force your point of view on them.


3. Show them all the benefits of your idea. (If possible, tell them how it will benefit them. That always gets their attention.)

4. Minimize any gain you stand to receive should the person choose your preferred course of action.

5. Prepare for any contradictions and be ready for any that you may not have thought of.


6. Don't be afraid to agree with the person a little. Say things like: "Okay, but..." or "Yeah except..." or just say yes but don't let them completely prove you wrong. However it is always okay if you hear what they have to say and try to adapt their idea to your idea.

7. Try to find out why the other person is rejecting your preferred course of action. If you can find out why, it gives you a tactical advantage.

8. If you realize that you may have been wrong in one aspect then admit it. It will make you seem more trustworthy.

9. Ask them just to consider it and think about your idea, given time to think they may realize their mistakes.

10. Be generous with your opponent; give them something they want, and they will be more inclined to give you something you want.

11. All persuasion should be suggestive not demand. But at the same time know what you want.

12. In general when trying to convince someone always talk about positive things and pleasant memories, never bad things that happened. Not about personal life experiences.

13. Try not to appear to be going to great lengths to persuade somebody. In fact, you are most persuasive when your audience does not know you are attempting to persuade them.

14. At times, it helps to let your audience know that something is really, really, really important to you, and other times it does not; use discretion.

15. Most importantly, know when to give up. Your opponent may find you talking very annoying. If your opponent perceives you as a pest, it will make you much less persuasive in the future.
_____________________
(These 15 points were found at the following website: How to Persuade People: 15 steps - wikiHow)

I'm not being disrespectful, try offering your service to the NRA. I also see alot of members here without the NRA symbol. If your a member put it on.
Thanks
James