I've been invited to share my views with the White House today...

Hi 2 hawk. I am sure you will do well. I would also mention that freedom has never been free. There are risks in anything we do and we will never completely eliminate risk. The risk to us if we ever lost our freedom is written in blood....Remanda, Somolia, Cambodia, Germany WW2, Sierra leone and so many other places where a brutal government massacured their own people. We must never let that happen here. Gun free zones are nothing but advertized soft targets for the crimnially insane. We can never stop a criminal from trying to act out....but we can take steps to minimize the destruction by being prepared to deal with it. Our schools are a target for any terrorist as are sports events and even churches....but schools house those most precious to all of us and the future of this country. The President is well protected as he should be and I am sure the agents use fully automatic weapons and high capacity magazines.....why should my family deserve less protection than the President? They are as precious (more so to me). Gun free zones do not protect the President so why should we think they work in a school? Nuclear free zones do not protect from nuclear weapons....in short...words do not protect people and neither do more laws.....it takes positive direct action to protect what ever it is we want to protect. Words and laws will not do it....but the wrong laws can be part of the problem as in Gun Free Zones in Schools insurem that no law abiding citizen will be there to stop a rampage. Good luck buddy.
John
 
BH, thanks for the encouragement.

And thanks to all posting, there are a lot of good points being made.

I just hope they are willing to hear some......:rolleyes:
 
I would ask how a reinstated ban would have prevented Adam Lanza from committing atrocities when he:

1) Didn't purchase one but obtained one that was owned by his mother, possibly by force and without her consent.

2) Was technically "declined" for a rifle purchase under existing CT state laws in the form of a waiting period.

I would also ask how, realistically, a reduced magazine capacity would have limited the amount of bloodshed he caused.

If the intent of this legislation is to dry up the supply of military pattern self loading rifles, I would like to know how that can realistically be accomplished when you consider how many are already legally owned by private individuals and that ex post facto laws are specifically prohibited by our Constitution.

As for "common sense" solutions, I'd recommend the following:

Anyone who undergoes psychiatric treatment or counseling OR is prescribed psychotropic medication MUST, by law, be added to the NICS database. HIPAA already has provisions for the sharing of private health information with law enforcement officials, and there is no "slippery slope" because HIPAA already has provisions that disallow medical professionals to tabulate or report any information on firearms ownership. (Though I'd sincerely hope that a responsibly minded family member in their household would lock up any firearms they own until they're well again!)

And, as much as I hate to concede it, ALL firearms sales must be brokered by an FFL holder. The ultimate goal of this will be to ensure private person-to-person sales undergo an NICS check. Yes, it means you have to pay background check and transfer fees, but HONEST FFLs won't gouge you on them. Again, no slippery slope because no information is being tabulated on you other than what's already being reported to State and Federal officials whenever you purchase a firearm through an FFL.
 
Agree on all points, except the last...

CoMF said:
I would ask how a reinstated ban would have prevented Adam Lanza from committing atrocities when he:

1) Didn't purchase one but obtained one that was owned by his mother, possibly by force and without her consent.

2) Was technically "declined" for a rifle purchase under existing CT state laws in the form of a waiting period.

I would also ask how, realistically, a reduced magazine capacity would have limited the amount of bloodshed he caused.

If the intent of this legislation is to dry up the supply of military pattern self loading rifles, I would like to know how that can realistically be accomplished when you consider how many are already legally owned by private individuals and that ex post facto laws are specifically prohibited by our Constitution.

As for "common sense" solutions, I'd recommend the following:

Anyone who undergoes psychiatric treatment or counseling OR is prescribed psychotropic medication MUST, by law, be added to the NICS database. HIPAA already has provisions for the sharing of private health information with law enforcement officials, and there is no "slippery slope" because HIPAA already has provisions that disallow medical professionals to tabulate or report any information on firearms ownership. (Though I'd sincerely hope that a responsibly minded family member in their household would lock up any firearms they own until they're well again!)

And, as much as I hate to concede it, ALL firearms sales must be brokered by an FFL holder. The ultimate goal of this will be to ensure private person-to-person sales undergo an NICS check. Yes, it means you have to pay background check and transfer fees, but HONEST FFLs won't gouge you on them. Again, no slippery slope because no information is being tabulated on you other than what's already being reported to State and Federal officials whenever you purchase a firearm through an FFL.
Click to expand...

Pretty much on track with my thoughts, but I don't like the idea of having sales between private individuals regulated by the .gov. If I sell or transfer an arm, it is my responsibility to know who I am selling to. If I don't know them, then I have to do some due diligence. I use a bill of sale that includes a statement that closely follows the 4473, and I get a shot of their ID with my phone. Above all, I look at them- would I trust this guy around me with a loaded gun, or not?

That said, I can see how they might push that one through as "reasonable". I personally think there will be a high rate of non-compliance if they do.
 
2hawk said:
I received an invitation to join in a conference call with a VP staffer to share my views on reducing "gun violence." Email I received is below:
=============================================

This call is off the record and not for press purposes. This invitation is non-transferrable. Note that this call will be recorded. A transcript and audio/video recordings may be publicly released.



===============================================
Click to expand...

Well you be taping too?
 
Afraid I don't have the means to record, but I wish I did.
Time's almost here, so I gotta go. The did move it back to 4.30pm EST.
 
If you have a smart phone, you can use the recording or the video feature on that.
 
2hawk said:
Pretty much on track with my thoughts, but I don't like the idea of having sales between private individuals regulated by the .gov. If I sell or transfer an arm, it is my responsibility to know who I am selling to. If I don't know them, then I have to do some due diligence. I use a bill of sale that includes a statement that closely follows the 4473, and I get a shot of their ID with my phone. Above all, I look at them- would I trust this guy around me with a loaded gun, or not?

That said, I can see how they might push that one through as "reasonable". I personally think there will be a high rate of non-compliance if they do.
Click to expand...

I know... It's as ludicrous as stopping the private sales of automobiles and requiring dealerships to broker them. You and I are cut from the same cloth; as an individual, I would try to perform my due diligence and personally not sell a firearm to someone who JDLR. Unfortunately, speaking from my own personal experiences with others, not everyone displays that same level of judgement. The antis are also really pushing for "closing the gun show loophole" (whatever that is). Lots of firearm owners would agree that the NICS "safety net," while not an aegis against criminal and improper firearms use, has "holes" which need to be patched and at times isn't utilized nearly as much as it should be.

Much as I want to put my trust in individuals to do the right thing, this concession isn't playing into the hands of the antis; it utilizes an existing system which is blind to race, income, social status, or political orientation. If anything, the non-compliance will stem from people either whinging about now having to pay transfer/NICS fees or wearing their tin foil hat too tightly. I can't really see anyone disobeying it on sound principle.

Edited to Add: Barring that, the only possible alternative I could think of is criminal and/or civil liabilities for not performing one's due diligence in a private person-to-person firearm sale. Some will argue that such a solution is "not enough," despite the fact it's relying on the "rule of law" to keep people honest.
 
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2hawk said:
Afraid I don't have the means to record, but I wish I did.
Time's almost here, so I gotta go. The did move it back to 4.30pm EST.
Click to expand...

Best of luck! Please let us know how it goes.
 
Will do, I'm listening to some decent phone music while holding.

They asked me what organization or business I was with, and I answered that I am only participating as a private citizen, although I am a member of the NRA.
 
Completely "off the record, but of course we will be recording it"

sheesh.
 
C.S.63 said:
Thinking Points for more info?

After 911 DHS was formed? TSA? Flight Crews got training and also armed? more Sky Marshalls?

Why not try armed security for schools and better overall security?

Education, Values, respect, common decency for fellow man,

2006, West Nickel Mines School?
Click to expand...


Be VERY careful what you wish for. This could push TSA into the public school system Countrywide. Be very very careful about asking for armed guards...cause if they put them there trust me it won't be Joe Public like some of you are calling for.
 
KJM said:
Be VERY careful what you wish for. This could push TSA into the public school system Countrywide. Be very very careful about asking for armed guards...cause if they put them there trust me it won't be Joe Public like some of you are calling for.
Click to expand...

I don't like this position of armed guards being the solution, either. All school personnel should have the right that we already are suppose to have under the 2nd Amendment to carry a weapon for their and our children protection if they wish to. School "Gun Free Zones" should be banned and self defense instructions should be encouraged for all school personnel.
 
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From the National Institute of Health:

FDA warning on antidepressants
Antidepressants are safe and popular, but some studies have suggested that they may have unintentional effects, especially in young people. In 2004, the FDA looked at published and unpublished data on trials of antidepressants that involved nearly 4,400 children and adolescents. They found that 4 percent of those taking antidepressants thought about or tried suicide (although no suicides occurred), compared to 2 percent of those receiving placebos (sugar pill).

In 2005, the FDA decided to adopt a "black box" warning label—the most serious type of warning—on all antidepressant medications. The warning says there is an increased risk of suicidal thinking or attempts in children and adolescents taking antidepressants. In 2007, the FDA proposed that makers of all antidepressant medications extend the warning to include young adults up through age 24.

The warning also says that patients of all ages taking antidepressants should be watched closely, especially during the first few weeks of treatment. Possible side effects to look for are depression that gets worse, suicidal thinking or behavior, or any unusual changes in behavior such as trouble sleeping, agitation, or withdrawal from normal social situations. Families and caregivers should report any changes to the doctor. To find the latest information visit the FDA website.

Results of a comprehensive review of pediatric trials conducted between 1988 and 2006 suggested that the benefits of antidepressant medications likely outweigh their risks to children and adolescents with major depression and anxiety disorders.5 The study was funded in part by NIMH.
Finally, the FDA has warned that combining the newer SSRI or SNRI antidepressants with one of the commonly-used "triptan" medications used to treat migraine headaches could cause a life-threatening illness called "serotonin syndrome." A person with serotonin syndrome may be agitated, have hallucinations (see or hear things that are not real), have a high temperature, or have unusual blood pressure changes. Serotonin syndrome is usually associated with the older antidepressants called MAOIs, but it can happen with the newer antidepressants as well, if they are mixed with the wrong medications.
Click to expand...

NIMH · Mental Health Medications

Also note that long term studies before a drug is released have been virtually abandonded by the FDA. Combine that with using these psychotropic drugs to treat more and more symptoms (e.g., stop smoking medication a relabeled anti-depressant) and you have a significant part of the population under unknown influences of drugs.

The use of these drugs on children through young adults has seen an exponential increase over the last decade. Which just happens to correlate to the increase in mass murders by teenagers and young adults.

And looking at the list John Noveske put together, there is a direct link between the perpetrator and psychiatric drug use.
 
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