Sadly - Another .40 Shield Kaboom

[jdw1951]

These are last photos I have.

 

[NavalOps]

I have a Shield 40 and my wife has a Shield 9, we have both shot over 1,000 rounds in both firearms without any problems. I have used many different brands of ammunition, as well as different grains. I have also fired PMC Bronze HP, Federal HST, American Bullet HP, and some 180 grain reloads a friend of mine makes; never encountered an explosion.

 

[Capttjk1]

I like Underwood ammo, and use it in my G29, however that 135 round in the .40 is crazy hot....it can give you boarder line 10mm numbers.

Not saying it would cause a KB, but I would not use it in a single stack pocket gun.

I was thinking the same thing. I have Underwood 10mm for my Glock 29, but I don't think I would buy their ".40 +P" ammo to use in my shield or any other .40 I have. Just my opinion. Having read about so many .40 Kabooms over the years in many different types of firearms, I would be very hesitant to shoot anything designated as .40 +P. That would be outside my comfort zone. Again, JMO.

 

[jdw1951]

mfholmes - I plan to contact S&W and ask them to return my Shield. It was my hope that S&W would provide the reliable detailed description of their testing and an explanation of the results. I am checking on an independent forensic lab. As far as S&W recommendations on +P, their manual states there is no prohibition against using +P but they warn it could cause premature wear. The difficulty with the +P designation is I don't believe SAAMI has a +P specification for the .40 S&W. As someone else indicated, 35,000 psi is the max pressure for .40 S&W.

 

[Capttjk1]

mfholmes - I plan to contact S&W and ask them to return my Shield. It was my hope that S&W would provide the reliable detailed description of their testing and an explanation of the results. I am checking on an independent forensic lab. As far as S&W recommendations on +P, their manual states there is no prohibition against using +P but they warn it could cause premature wear. The difficulty with the +P designation is I don't believe SAAMI has a +P specification for the .40 S&W. As someone else indicated, 35,000 psi is the max pressure for .40 S&W.

I think you are right. Except for Underwood, I don't think I have seen a ".40 +P" anywhere else.

 

[feelinlucky]

Edit to correct. I jumped to a hasty conclusion. Sorry.

Smith and Wesson definitely does not approve the use of +P+ ammo. There is no SAAMI specification for +P+ ammo anyway.
The Shield owner's manual does not forbid the use of +P ammo in a caliber where a legit SAAMI +P spec does exist. However, there is no SAAMI specification for 40 S&W +P ammunition.

That said, hot ammo like that Underwood ammo is likely over the upper edge of the operating pressure envelope. There is no room for error there... like what could be caused by bullet setback, or just a slight variation in charge weight.

 

[Capttjk1]

As someone who is a Glock fan, most of the Glock .40 kabooms I have read about over the years have seemed to be from overly hot loads, or reloads or both. It seemed rare that you would read a story of a Glock .40 kaboom from regular, normal factory ammo. Although, it did happen very occasionally.

I have a .40 Shield and I have 100 percent confidence in it. It's my favorite carry weapon that I have ever owned.

Of course this is just a guess, but i would bet this was an ammo issue over a gun issue on this kaboom. Again, I am just guessing, but the hot .40 +P load that Underwood advertises at 1450 FPS is a red flag in my opinion.

 

[JFR]

Thanks for the photos JDW. Looking at image #4950, is your barrel cracked?

By the way, I bumped two older threads with the same issue. This makes 5 by my count on a quick search.

 

[vipermd]

There is no SAAMI specification for +P+ ammo, but SAAMI does indeed have a +P specification for .40 S&W. The Shield owner's manual does not forbid the use of +P ammo in the Shield, but it does caution that +P ammo will cause potential wear problems. Smith and Wesson definitely does not approve the use of +P+ ammo.

That said, hot +P ammo like that Underwood ammo is fairly close to the upper edge of the operating pressure envelope. There is little room for error there... like what could be caused by bullet setback, or just a slight variation in charge weight.

I checked saami and could not find a +p 40 sw. What is the pressure? Be Safe,

 

[feelinlucky]

Looks like you are correct. There is no +P specification for 40 S&W. I saw the comments in the manual regarding +P and made a hasty assumption. That warning is just boilerplate in all the manuals I guess.

This brings up an interesting question. If there are no SAAMI +P specs for 40 S&W, what is that stuff that Underwood is selling and claiming to be +P?

 

[Milspec]

Check out the +P ammo and note the wide thin JHP bullet profile. It's possible he accidentally touched the mag release causing it to drop slightly so the bullet was fed slightly below the ramp. The JHP bullet caught and canted the round where it was hit by the extractor or some other protrusion causing an out of battery fire.
.
Did anyone recover the casing so that if it did fire out of battery we may be able to tell why? If so, was there enough of the case head left to determine what struck the primer?
.

 

[lrmnut]

I had a similar experience with a Ruger LCP with a C/T laser using magtech ammo my LCP had hundreds of practice thru it and a lot of JHP ammo also Ruger, Magtech and myself all agreed it was bad ammo with no real expert opinion's. I contacted Ruger and Magtech both the the same day the gun blew they both ask that I send the LCP back to Ruger and the ammo back to Magtech which I did. Ruger sent me a new LCP with C/T laser and because Ruger replaced the LCP no CHARGE to me at all Magtech sent me almost two thousand rounds of ammo which more then covered the cost of the pistol and laser. I feel that's how reputable company's treat their customers. I have dealt with S&W for years and have had some minor problems which they have so far corrected, one of which I'am dealing with right now on a Shield 9 again minor. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[PurpleMountainOutdoors]

Wow, sorry that happened! Get the 9mm shield, I love mine!


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[jdw1951]

JFR - yes the barrel is cracked.

 

[jdw1951]

Feelinlucky - I spoke to Underwood right after the KB and asked about the +P designation. They put it on the 135-grain ammo as a caution against people using the ammo in non +P rated firearms. They also indicated the pressure was 34,000 psi.

Thanks to everyone who has posted so far. I really appreciate all your excellent input. Good night.

 

[WallyJJ]

mfholmes - I plan to contact S&W and ask them to return my Shield.

I am curious how your conversation goes when asking for the gun back. I am the owner of one of the .40s that blew up and had a thread bumped up. I had a similar offer from them for replacement. Since magazines were so expensive I told them to send me my gun (and magazines) back and I would just buy a new replacement on my own and keep the original gun's carcass. The replacement cost was quickly lowered again and I accepted. I didn't want to push my luck and honestly didn't think I had much leverage anyway. I accepted the deal and asked for a 9mm version instead. When the local gun shop called and said my replacement was in I found they screwed up and shipped me another .40 instead of the 9mm I requested. They were still such a hot item I accepted the replacement. I carry the .40 and my wife has a 9mm. With the recent addition of others in my "club" it has me wondering if I should still own it.

 

[modraker]

How will they know?

A member mentioned the Consumer Product Safety Commission in post #40

Will they be the ones doing that?

Just wondering, how will the Consumer Product Safety Commission be informed that there is a problem with the 40 Shield?

 

[Robotech]

I don't have a dog in this fight but got curious and did a search on ".40 s&w shield review" and was a little surprised to see glowing and rave reviews about what a fine handgun it is.

I don't reload but read something about bullet setback and how it can drastically increase pressure and since the .40 apparently is already on the edge could that be a factor?

I would be concerned if I owned any .40. How accurately is the setback on factory ammo?

Teats, Bulls and the .40 S&W | The Bang Switch

After reading that it was "factory ammo", this was one of the first questions that came to mind.

When I first read about the setback problem awhile back, I did a quick check of some of what I had, and while there was a very slight variation in the never-chambered stuff, it wasn't much. The biggest difference was in one box of Hornady Critical Defense. A second box didn't vary as much as the first, if at all.

I did, however, get into the habit of doing a quick comparison check of any round that had been chambered and ejected before putting it back into a magazine. So far I haven't found any noticeable setback, but then I'm not one of those who unloads my Shield everyday.

I'm wondering if anyone has done a controlled "drop test", dropping a loaded round on a hard floor from table height to see if landing on either the base or the nose of the bullet would result in a significant setback. I see rounds roll off the table often enough at the range, and most shooters don't do anything more that brush off any dust or dirt.

Even the best factory ammo that has been subjected to repeated chamberings or a drop might be suffering from excessive setback of the bullet in the case. Checking unfired rounds may not show this if it was just the one bullet. I'm not sure if a close forensic examination of the damaged case would reveal a setback problem or not, but I suspect you would have to be specifically looking for it.

 

[Roger S&W]

Just wondering, how will the Consumer Product Safety Commission be informed that there is a problem with the 40 Shield?

Um, I'll take a guess and say that may be one of the guys that had their gun blow up in their hand will notify them of what happened? May be the guy who almost lost his eye too? As a piece of shrapnel hit him in the face just below his eye causing blood to run down his face?
Pure speculation on my part though. I wasn't injured.
I do have a Shield 40 though, unfired. I've only had it since Christmas. Now I'm hesitant to go shoot it.

 

[RussC]

Obviously you have never been present during an autopsy!

I probably was not clear using my autopsy analogy.

It is pointless to think S&W or using my example of a doctor performing an autopsy on their own patient (which would never happen) would conclude they were at fault

In our legal system accused criminals cannot be compelled to incriminate themselves.

Thinking S&W would admit fault is self incrimination.

S&W taking possession of the blownup weapon to evaluate cause is like asking OJ Simpson to try on a pair of gloves.

Surprise the glove didn't fit nor is the blownup gun S&Ws fault per Smith and Wessons objective evaluation.

Russ