Do you train for hand-to-hand?

[Smoke]

I’m 48, I hold a black belt in Tae Kwon Do and I doubt very seriously I could go toe to toe with a reasonably fit twentysomething but whether or not I’m going to fight hand to hand may not be my choice, if someone jumps me I’m at least going to have to fight until I can get my gun out.

I try to keep myself fit and am currently looking into studying a soft style such as Aikido where I don’t have to worry about pulling off a double back flip reverse hurricane kick.

 

[66Park]

Sounds like you got out of the situation unscathed, in spite of having no gun and diminished Aikido skills? If all it cost you was some $$$...you're the winner.

Actually, no. I was stabbed through the heart with the screw driver after giving the guy no trouble at all and miraculously survived. I've told the story here before and don't really want to get into it again.

 

[kyf]

Yes..........

 

[USAF385]

I studied BJJ when I was young, and trained in Krav Maga while active duty, but I haven't trained actively in about two years.

 

[Protected One]

I’m 48, I hold a black belt in Tae Kwon Do and I doubt very seriously I could go toe to toe with a reasonably fit twentysomething...

Even if it was just one????

 

[BCDWYO]

I’m 48, I hold a black belt in Tae Kwon Do and I doubt very seriously I could go toe to toe with a reasonably fit twentysomething but whether or not I’m going to fight hand to hand may not be my choice, if someone jumps me I’m at least going to have to fight until I can get my gun out.

I try to keep myself fit and am currently looking into studying a soft style such as Aikido where I don’t have to worry about pulling off a double back flip reverse hurricane kick.

Thanks for all the replies and I wholeheartedly agree that avoidance is usually possible and always best, but my question, as Smoke points out, is what is my plan if not given the choice - ie jumped without warning...being able to at least fight long enough to get my gun out is my concern. I'm still a relatively fit 49 but I have no illusions of being able to go toe-to-toe with a determined 20-something. And the bigger point is I have NO DESIRE to do so...fighting hurts!

Situational awareness and avoidance is no doubt the most important advice, but if avoidance was guarenteed to work, then I wouldn't need to carry.

 

[66Park]

The problem with plans is that things never happen according to plan. Are you in danger of death or grave bodily harm? If I'm not and somebody wants to punch me in the eye when I'm carrying and not take it any further, I guess I'm gonna have a black eye, and they're gonna walk away.

 

[The Big D]

By no measure am I the baddest dude...anywhere. But if I shot everyone who has taken a poke at me the population would be a bit less.

Not every confrontation must result in somebody being shot.

Be safe.

 

[BrianE]

I have a slight martial arts background as an adult. You're never too old to learn and practice...

 

[Frizzman]

I have had a fair amount of training in practical methods of unarmed defense. I am fifty nine. I am 6'2" and around 220 and not all fat so I'm not helpless. I would not engage in a punching match with anybody. Any skills I have would be used for escape, weapon retention and to get sombody off of me enough to use an equalizer. I do carry a kuboton and OC so I am not in the position to have either the gun or begging for mercy as my only choices. I consider good social skills and self-control as part of my defensive package...So, it really doesn't take a lot of training to learn to use a few techniques that can help if the attacker is able to get close enough to negate using the gun. I taught a few of those things to staff who worked in psychiatric settings. All sorts of people were able to learn those techniques. Some modicum of practice is also a good idea.

 

[moosedog]

I ran the "Use of Force" section with the department I worked at for almost 20 years. We combined PPCT along with numerous other training tactics that we picked up from various use of force schools and seminars around the country.
We took the best of these and created our own training format. We trained the whole department one day a month and shot several times a year plus a yearly qualification.
Too much stuff to post here but basically we taught our officers to win the fight and we will sort out the rest later.
Since retiring, I do more cardio and weight training than I have ever done because I have more time.
Knowledge of techniques is good but if you don't keep your endurance up, you risk not being able to sustain during an encounter. Age is a deciding factor in that too. Are we as good as we were 10 or 20 years ago? I think not.
The eyes, the throat, center of balance, where the head goes, the body goes. All good.
Know your abilities, but also know your limitations and have the proper weapons available.

 

[Rastoff]

I was gonna type a bunch of stuff, but I'll just say this...

Meet Chuck Sullivan:

He is in his mid 80s. He is the Senior Grandmaster of my school. He's older than anyone in this thread and can still wipe the floor with any two students. So, don't tell me you're too old to learn some empty hand self-defense.

About guns...
"Owning a gun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician." -Col Jeff Cooper

That's my favorite quote. It's simple and to the point. If you refuse to get trained in empty hand self-defense, at least seek training in how to use a gun effectively.

Shooting is a perishable skill. Sorry, but shooting 100 rounds, slow fire, from the ready, at your range, twice a year, in 70° weather does not prepare you to defend yourself with a gun.

Answer these questions for yourself:
If someone grabs your wrist, can you get free?
If you are bear hugged from behind, can you get free?
What are the two most effective strikes for self defense? Hint: anyone can do them.
Can you shoot two shots, on target, at 7 yards, starting from the holster, in under 2.4 seconds?
Can you clear a type II malfunction, and shoot a follow up shot, in under 3 seconds?


I'm 47 years old. I hold a second degree black belt in Chinese Kenpo (you can verify that here: IKCA Family Tree Page 2) I have not trained martial arts since I broke my right femur last June, but I can do all those things listed above. You can too. You just have to decide that you want to.


ProgressiveTruth mentioned being disabled. This past year being on crutches has opened my eyes a lot to a disabled person's plight. Obviously there are different levels of disability, but many simply cannot physically resist. This is an area I'm working on. I don't have a solution yet, but I intend to address this. I want to develop something that a disabled person can do to defend themselves.

 

[Smoke]

- And the bigger point is I have NO DESIRE to do so...fighting hurts!

I have never been in a fight win lose or draw that I didn’t hurt like hell the next day and the fights that I was in weren’t against someone who was really trying to hurt me.

A fight like that isn’t a joke and if there is anything I can do to avoid one I’m going to

 

[Smoke]

The problem with plans is that things never happen according to plan. Are you in danger of death or grave bodily harm? If I'm not and somebody wants to punch me in the eye when I'm carrying and not take it any further, I guess I'm gonna have a black eye, and they're gonna walk away.

Assuming I don’t know the person attacking me I have no idea what their motivation is. I would have to assume that any random stranger that hit me was attacking me and I would proceed on that assumption.

 

[66Park]

Assuming I don’t know the person attacking me I have no idea what their motivation is. I would have to assume that any random stranger that hit me was attacking me and I would proceed on that assumption.

Well, ok. Whatever you want to do is your decision and your responsibility. I have no desire to shoot someone that isn't threatening my life. If somebody slaps you, do you assume the right of deadly force? Where do you start assuming? If I don't feel my life is threatened, or I'm not in danger of grave bodily harm, the gun stays in its holster. Period. But you can feel free to proceed under any assumption you want. Whatever decision has to be made has to be made based on the facts at hand, not a theoretical discussion on an internet forum. I've been in one life or death situation, and it was pretty obvious. I just had no way to defend myself. I remedied that. I haven't gotten into a fight with anyone since the fourth grade.

 

[Protected One]

To the original poster:

The health limitations you mentioned don't prevent you from leaning a few "basic" techniques for protecting yourself and/or creating space to retrieve your firearm.
I see you live in Phoenix. If there is a certified Krav Maga instructor in the area, they can help in this regard.

Be safe, and enjoy a "protected" life!

 

[Kanewpadle]

Well, ok. Whatever you want to do is your decision and your responsibility. I have no desire to shoot someone that isn't threatening my life. If somebody slaps you, do you assume the right of deadly force? Where do you start assuming? If I don't feel my life is threatened, or I'm not in danger of grave bodily harm, the gun stays in its holster. Period. But you can feel free to proceed under any assumption you want. Whatever decision has to be made has to be made based on the facts at hand, not a theoretical discussion on an internet forum. I've been in one life or death situation, and it was pretty obvious. I just had no way to defend myself. I remedied that. I haven't gotten into a fight with anyone since the fourth grade.

It's called common sense and knowing the law. Knowing when DISPARITY OF FORCE applies.

Several years ago here locally an older man and a younger man got into an argument. Over nothing. The younger man punched the older man knocking him to the ground. The punch didn't kill him. But when he hit his head on the curb, that killed him.

If any man regardless of age, size, strength, or skill picks a fight with me, I will do everything I can to avoid getting hurt. But the longer he persists, the greater chance that he has of getting shot.

I WILL go home to my family. It's my responsibility to them to do so unharmed. Even if I have to explain my actions in a court of law.

I don't understand why some don't understand this cause it's really quite simple.

When a man attacks another man he assumes that he has the upper hand. And even though he may, assuming is the most dangerous thing a man can do because he thinks it's going to be easy. That we won't fight back. And eventually he will run into someone that will simply shoot him instead of taking a beating.

 

[Kanewpadle]

I was gonna type a bunch of stuff, but I'll just say this...

Meet Chuck Sullivan:

He is in his mid 80s. He is the Senior Grandmaster of my school. He's older than anyone in this thread and can still wipe the floor with any two students. So, don't tell me you're too old to learn some empty hand self-defense.

About guns...
"Owning a gun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician." -Col Jeff Cooper

That's my favorite quote. It's simple and to the point. If you refuse to get trained in empty hand self-defense, at least seek training in how to use a gun effectively.

Shooting is a perishable skill. Sorry, but shooting 100 rounds, slow fire, from the ready, at your range, twice a year, in 70° weather does not prepare you to defend yourself with a gun.

Answer these questions for yourself:
If someone grabs your wrist, can you get free?
If you are bear hugged from behind, can you get free?
What are the two most effective strikes for self defense? Hint: anyone can do them.
Can you shoot two shots, on target, at 7 yards, starting from the holster, in under 2.4 seconds?
Can you clear a type II malfunction, and shoot a follow up shot, in under 3 seconds?


I'm 47 years old. I hold a second degree black belt in Chinese Kenpo (you can verify that here: IKCA Family Tree Page 2) I have not trained martial arts since I broke my right femur last June, but I can do all those things listed above. You can too. You just have to decide that you want to.


ProgressiveTruth mentioned being disabled. This past year being on crutches has opened my eyes a lot to a disabled person's plight. Obviously there are different levels of disability, but many simply cannot physically resist. This is an area I'm working on. I don't have a solution yet, but I intend to address this. I want to develop something that a disabled person can do to defend themselves.

Hopefully you can return to your studies soon. I was forced into traditional Okinawan Karate at a young age and hated it. Then Judo. Hated that too. I studies for several years but when I got a little older with a mind of my own, I quit.

My uncle looks almost exactly like Mr Miyagi. Same size. Same hair or lack of it. He still owns and runs his own dojo in Okinawa. At the age of 83, he can still kick butt.

 

[ProgressiveTruth]

I recall hearing Massad Ayoob say that in the case of an older victim being attacked by a younger, fitter/faster assailant, the "disparity of force" of the situation gives the victim the right to use lethal force - even if the assailant is unarmed. This also applies to women being attacked by men, or a victim being attacked by multiple assailants.

You prepare physically, the best you can based on your health and abilities, but by all means protect yourself as the situation dictates! As you said, one of the benefits of age is that it normally brings wisdom, and hopefully, enough sense to avoid doing something foolish - like shooting someone for texting during a movie.

I'm 58, and earned advanced belts in two martial arts (even started Krav Maga last year), and while I feel it's important to know how to do MORE than just shoot acuratelly I'll be damned if I'm going to refrain from shooting if I believe the situation calls for it.

I wonder if this disparity of force thing you mentioned has something to do in why on that Travon Martin case, Zimmerman was cleared. Because regardless of the other issues, when it came down to that fight, Zimmerman was getting his butt kicked. So he pulled his gun or he would have been beaten to death or close enough.

 

[oberon]

I train 4 or 5 days each week. I go full contact on Thursdays.
I'm big and easy to hit.
I hit back real good.
I turned 61 this year.
I test this spring for 4th Dan.
I ain't stoppin'
I ain't givin' up.