Byron Smith verdict.

[the ringo kid]

Great points made by alland I agree with them. Clearly the Vet took things too far but--then again,what do we know what kind of torment that vet had ben through-both during Nam, and after?

Anyway, I think most would be so fed up with the break-ins that he endured, that them would be more than ticked off and IMO--if this happened to me and I HAD to shoot them--it would have been to wound only-unless they pulled guns on me. The tormentof the gal while dying--and the executions were way beyond the needed force. I can see it from the vets POV in a way--because he probably felt super frustrated that not enough was being done to stop this stuff BUT---what he did wasnot ecusable.

When I lived in Houston--and had only been there maybe 2 weeks? I was in the den in the early morning looking up stuff on my laptop and noticed a ""gentleman"" looking or trying to look through my windows (back of the house and only waty there was over the 9 foot tall wooden fence) aand then noticed hi rapidly moving towards my back door. I ran to get my pistol and he saw me running up to the back door--eyes fixated on my gun and ran as fast and hopped over the 9 foot fence so fast that he waas gone before i couldopen the door and chase. I could have easily shot him,but didnt. Needlesss to say, he hopped over the bakyard fence and lande in the concrete paved cnal behind--and by the time I wasable to look over the fence-he was already about a block away. Would i have fire a parting shot? nope. Well, fast frward a few months. I was sitting watching TV in my room when I heard the rapid firing of several shots nearby. Two punks were trying to rob a cell phone store--where i bought my phone at) and one made it to the car speeding away, the other was chased out of the store by the owner who had shot him more than once inside th e store. Guy escaped and ran onto Keith Harrow and immediately got hit by a car going at least 50--bounced off the windshield-landing on his feet, running into a nearby parkinglot and died. It turned out said dead thief-was the one who tried robbing my house.

 

[the ringo kid]

Forgot to mentio, that in one of the photos showing such a "nice" kid, shows him throwing a gang sign with right hand. "Nice" kids dont show gang signs. Also,"nice" kids dont break into homes either. The sad thing is-is that kid also has to be held responsible for his actions as well as the vet who went too far with his actions.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

In my Army days we were told the bayonet is to kill with, firearms-just to wound. No putting "be-sures" into a fallen enemy. The SAS does that, but they operate under different Rules of Engagement. Also recall that one of the Laws of War is Economy of Force-use no more than you have to.

 

[feralmerril]

Hopefully this will go to court again on appeal. Likely the evidence that wasnt permitted will be shown to a new jury. This time his lawyer should show the first arrest picture along with the neighbors testimony of smith telling him he hadnt slept in four months. He had set up the recorders and cameras to get evidence to prove his suspicions. And yes when the fireworks started he lost it and forgot he was the star of the show. How many of you defenders of the kids knowing their history now would want them living down the road from you? Lets say you are pretty sure they have been repeatedly cleaning you out to the tune of over $40,000s, but no, you cant prove it. Lets say you havent been able to sleep in four months. Think you still want to "canonize" these poor misunderstood children that you had befriended and put to work?
Sure, in hindsight I suppose he should have put a alarm system in that rang at the desk sergeants post (If they would have let you) or hire a armed guard to watch your house every time when you want to go shopping, to church or for lunch. Think those kids are going to turn their lives around after at least a dozen robbery's and taking and stealing dope?
Just exactly what WOULD YOU have done? We now know what happened, but YOU DONT have that to work with. How are YOU going to stop it? Remember, while puzzeling this out you havent slept in four months and have lost over $40,000s and family mementos. I dont beleive the local PD will want to go to the expense of having a officer hold your hand in the basement so that option is out too.

 

[Hodgin]

The guy turned what would have otherwise been justified into murder. He had every right to shoot them but not to execute them.

 

[G.T. Smith]

It sounds to me like he simply got very, very mad. Lost it. Makes a person do very stupid things. Bummer for every body involved for sure.
Peace,
Gordon

 

[redneckemt]

Its slowly coming out that this wasnt a B&E nor an ambush but a drug ripoff gone bad. The two kids were stealing meds from the houses they were breaking into. These kids weren't angels. And their killer was very likely an accomplice /fence /dealer.

Two druggie burglars DRT. Another dirt back locked up for life. I cant really see a bad side to this.

 

[Engine 21]

I can understand and sympathise with Smith. What I don't agree with is the premeditated killing of these kids - whether they are good or bad kids matters not. He had an justifiable SD shooting and elevated it to felony - murder. There is no defense for that but insanity. We'll see how it comes out on appeal.

 

[dougb1946]

The "victim" had a high tech surveillance system. He watched the kids break in. He did not call 911, but rather retired to a prepared firing position. Cameras, recorders, and a telephone were present. He could have called 911 at the start, instead of waiting a full day. He had them cold on tape or USB thumb drive. Three lives wasted.
MN uses the "reasonable man" basis for home defense. The reasonable man would call for backup if possible. The reasonable man stops shooting when the threat is gone. Then, the reasonable man calls for LEO and medical. He doesn't put a round in under the chin to end the suffering of a wounded teenager who is no longer a threat. He doesn't stack dead bodies in his basement for a day without notifying somebody.
He is not a folk hero. He just plain went too far.

 

[feralmerril]

Please show us your source on smith being a user/pusher.

 

[SavageSmoker]

As a Minnesotan and strong supporter of the 2nd amendment, I have been following this tragity since it happened. There are no winners here. The kids broke into someone's house, most likely to steal Rx meds. They were wrong in their actions and paid the ultimate price for it. However, Smith took things too far once the threat was eliminated. The audio tapes, his comments and the fact that he did not call authorities until 24 hours after killing these two burglers sealed his fate. The jury got this one right.

This has been a hot topic of debate around here and the people that know how much I support the 2nd amendment at first seem surprised by my thoughts of this case. Just because I am a gun owner and support castle doctrine laws doesn't mean I can't use common sense to see this was just too far. Tragic.

 

[shouldazagged]

I really don't care what past traumas or childhood tragedies led to the man's state of mind, unless he can be judged by qualified experts to be clinically insane and incapable of distinguishing right from wrong or reality from fantasy. There are many of us here who have traumatic events in our past, some who had lousy or truly abusive parenting, some with PTSD from combat in the service of this country, and yet as far as I know none of us has coldly executed an intruder who was no longer a threat. Much less two of them.

If the two kids had killed Smith most of us would insist that troubled backgrounds were no excuse. Murder is murder, and this was murder X2. I'm with Caj, I think the jury got it right.

 

[the ringo kid]

Simply put, I think frustration went too far because of many factors. The Vet probably felt like not near enough was being done so he decided to do something about it--probably being so frustrated that it overpassed his senses and he went too far. Id kinda like to see another trial to put other questions and factors to rest.

 

[redneckemt]

So he gets a retrial. How is the outcome going to be any different. He shot the thugs and then wait till the next day to call the Cops.

Oh and then there is the finishing shot

 

[rwsmith]

ANY self defense.....

I'm on the side of ANY self defense situation, especially in the home. But this wasn't self defense and I feel like the case where the German exchange student was shot in the garage by the home owner will probably go the same way. People are taking the right to self defense and turning it into an excuse for murder.

 

[rojodiablo]

Quite honestly, he really over-enforced his home protection, and took revenge- which is more than justice or protection. (He's not really entitled to dish out justice, that is meant for the courts.)

Another telling story on why you should make the first shots count. Were these burglars rushing him with weapons like bats, etc.? He might have well not been spared injury himself. Good shooting, and righteous shooting can't be stressed enough.
The first shot would have been a legit self defense..... without the lying in wait scenario set forth.
But if they are down, and there is no further threat?? You are obligated to cease your action. And then immediately call for police and an ambulance.

If- IF he can show the police response to the repeated and previous burglaries was far below sufficient, then he might upon appeal show cause of mental anguish and related fear, etc. But it would be a stretch, unless the LEO in his community are really not doing anything worth mention.

 

[the ringo kid]

So he gets a retrial. How is the outcome going to be any different. He shot the thugs and then wait till the next day to call the Cops.

Oh and then there is the finishing shot

He should get a retrial in order so that everything questionable can be disposed. They do that for many others, why not this person???

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

If- IF he can show the police response to the repeated and previous burglaries was far below sufficient, then he might upon appeal show cause of mental anguish and related fear, etc. But it would be a stretch, unless the LEO in his community are really not doing anything worth mention.

If the old man had repeatedly reported all the claimed break-ins that might have earned him some sympathy and shifted some blame to the authorities in the minds of the jury. However, according to the linked story that did not happen.

From linked story -- Smith never reported the burglaries to the sheriff except for once - a month before the killings

So here is a guy, government security engineer , so distraught and traumatized over repeated break-ins... $40k in stolen goods, cash and damages... that he could not sleep for four months. But he doesn't call the police until a month before the killings? If anything, I would think that puts doubt and suspicion into the minds of the jury.

 

[mac2]

You know, this case has similarities to that of Tony Martin...

 

[venomballistics]

Why oh why, didn`t he just call the cops???? There is a lesson here for all of us. Even though we are armed and self-sufficient, we need to remember the law and not be vigilantes.

as I dug into the history of this case ... he did before and it proved useless and seems as though the authorities had a hard time buying into who the perps were. They had the outward appearance of role models.
He was forced into a DIY solution ... I don't blame him.
the solution itself migrated into serial killer territory and THATS where we blame him.