Going to reload .380 - first time

[yep380]

Greetings all,

Appreciate all the advice given to me in this forum. I'm just throwing this out there to see if anyone has any last minute advice or sees any gotchas in this plan.

I had previously posted that I was tooling up to start reloading. I've been accumulating stuff for at least 25 years. I had planned way back to start loading .223, have brass, primers and bullets, but never had a press or dies.

I recently picked up a hornady lock and load progressive press, dies for .380 and .45 and shell plates. I had planned to actually start with .38, then .45, and finally .380 (and .223), but it didn't work out that way. I just bought some alliant power pistol powder, paying WAY too much for it (but happy to get it) and 1000x CCI #500 primers. I've got some Berry's platted 100gr bullets, a bunch of once fired (by me) brass, calipers and a scale. I've set up and cleaned the press and dies and put together 3 dummy cartridges, sans primers and powder.

The 3 dummy cartridges are .980 COL (after much trial and error). I think I've got the sizing and seating dies set correctly. I ran the dummy cartridges through my gun (Ruger LCP) and they seemed to cycle by hand just fine. I pulled the barrel and plopped 'em in the chamber and they plunk in and seem to fit nicely.

I'm thinking I'm OK with this COL size? I've got some 95gr FMJ commercial ammo and the COL is .975, fwiw.

The Hornady reloading manual lists 100gr FMJ-RN with a COL of .980. The Berry's bullets are 100gr, but plated. Everything I've read online says to use the low end of jacketed recipes with these bullets. The recipe for power pistol in the Hornady manual (3.8" barrel) starts at 3.0gr for 700fps and goes up to 4.4gr for 950fps. My plan is to start at 3.0gr(700fps), then work to 3.3gr(750fps), 3.6gr(800fps) and finally 3.9gr(850fps). Since the recipe is for a 3.8" barrel, I'm thinking my fps will be a bit lower and I should be OK with the plated bullets regardless. My reloading plan is to do one bullet at a time even though I have a progressive. As I get to know the press better I'll try running it with the full load going.

Questions:

Most importantly: Does all of this look sane? I'd ask someone local, but I don't know anyone who reloads handgun ammo. I've now read two manuals (Hornady and the Lee manual) and about as much internets/youtube as I can handle.

2. How critical is the COL? I literally spent an hour unseating a bullet, adjusting the seating die and trying again. I realize this is probably due to my inexperience, but I was wondering if .002 in either direction on the COL is OK?

Thanks for any help/comments.

 

[Mcwsky09]

Regarding COL you will generally have the SAAMI spec showing the max and the a specific recipe for the minimum. Somewhere between should be fine. Lots of folks will tell you that seating too far will cause a huge pressure spike and that may be true but I did see one reference (may have to find it) where the guy deliberately set the projectile deeper and deeper in nye case and the result was unspectacular. Very little impact on muzzle velocity. Not that I am recommending anything that deviates from published specs or that his results are universally applicable. Just that there may be more room for error on seating depth provided they go fully into battery and you don't put a crazy crimp on em. That said accuracy may suffer of there is too much space between the projectile and the lands and grooves when fired.
Things to be more careful of are double charge or no charge. Double charge can depend on what powder you use and I have seen a number of folks talk about choosing a powder load that fills the available space such that an undercharge would be obvious and a double charge would be glaringly obvious. Some presses have an option for a powder check with alarm. Of course it is hard to find pistol powder right now. I just started paring my own 380s but have a different press and powder so not sure my recipe would help you.
As for seating depth when setting up a new die I general start high and gradually work it down to spec so I don't have to pull it out. I haven't tried this but I suppose you could put a factory round in there with the die backed way off, run it up and then crank it down till you feel contact.
Biggest issue I have at the moment is metering in the 3 grain range with the flake powder I have. Need to find some powder that is spherical or rod shaped that flows better through the small openings.

 

[scooter123]

IMO your starting velocities are too low for either plated or jacketed bullets. Not only will you have potential issues with function you also run a slight risk of lodging a squib in your barrel.

Name brand plated bullets today can be considered as being the same as jacketed bullets as long as you limit the velocity to 1200 fps or less. BTW, if you dig you will find that recommendation is true for Berry's, RMR, and Extreme plated bullets. You'll also find that there are now "heavy plate" bullets available that can stand up to velocities as high as 1500 fps.

Now, look at your load data, do you see any loads for the 380 that exceed that 1200 fps limit. What this means is that you can pretty much use the full range of the data for jacketed bullets when loading with plated bullets, as long as you are using name brand quality bullets. Because handgun calibers that are capable of exceeding 1200 fps are mainly Magnum and semi auto ballistic copies of the traditional Magnums. This means that those loading for the 380, 9mm, 40 S&w, and 45 ACP really don't have to be very concerned about overspeeding a plated bullet. As for those loading Magnums, the 10mm and 357 Sig, that's when you step up to the next level and get either the heavy plate or a traditional jacketed bullet.

Overall length. That overall length should be treated as an absolute minimum when you are loading to the maximum powder charge. IF you are loading below the maximum charge you can load a bit shorter if you find you need to do that for functional issues. However, you do need to keep in mind that loading short can cause rather nasty pressure spikes so don't make it a habit. As for loading longer than recommended, the only issues with doing that are you may have feed issues and will probably find your load is a bit "dirty" due to incomplete combustion. Bottomline, keep your lengths within 0.010 on the short side and 0.06 inch on the long side and you won't have a problem.

Finally, I don't like relying on one single data source when I'm working up a new load. My normal procedure is to page through every one of the load manuals in my possession AND look at the online data for the powder and bullet manufacturers. Once I've done that I then run 10 or 15 test rounds at the low end of whatever "overlap" exists between multiple sources. As for the outlying data conflicts, if they are higher than the consensus I ignore them and if I find some lower outliers I'll spend a day or two thinking about my first load. It's also somewhat helpful to remember that most published load data is a bit conservative and you really have to do something actively foolish to actually blow a gun up with a new load. Just make sure you pay attention to the details and with any new load it's very wise to examine every single case you fire for signs of a problem.

 

[blujax01]

Long story short - you will be fine. If you're worried about 0.002", you're my kind of guy! I just make sure that any OAL difference is to the high end, that is to say, do not go below the minimum.

Like Scooter says, tread carefully with the low end loads. .380 is a finicky caliber and depending on your springs, you may run into cycling issues.

Scooter, I have to respectfully disagree with your general statement about plated bullet data. Berry's specifically says to use low to mid range jacketed data for their plated bullets. While further research may show that higher loads are indeed all right, it's hard to argue with the manufacturer's specifications when developing loads.

From Berry's Web Site FAQ Page:

"Plated bullets occupy a position between cast bullets and jacketed bullets. They are soft lead, but have a hard outer shell on them. When loading plated bullets we have found best results using low- to mid-range jacketed data in the load manual. You must use data for a bullet that has the same weight and profile as the one you are loading. Do not exceed mid-range loads. Do not use magnum loads."

 

[scooter123]

Blujax, dig a bit deeper on Berry's web site and you'll find they offer Heavy Plate bullets suitable for velocities up to 1500 fps. While 1500 fps might be a low to mid range Magnum load in a rifle it is most definitely NOT a low to mid range handgun load. I load 357 Magnums for my 620 and with that 4 inch barrel achieving a muzzle velocity in excess of 1300 fps requires using powder charges right at maximum charges.

I've also compared results using 3 different brands of plated bullets and jacketed bullets from Precision Delta and Hornady and in the 40 caliber a 5.4 grain charge of SR7625 put the results for all 5 bullets within a 10 fps average of 950 fps. Granted that load isn't particularly hot but my limited test revealed that plated bullets respond to a powder charge in a manner nearly identical to a jacketed bullet.

IMO that advice on Berry's web site is rather dated and likely a bit over lawyered. Because we aren't talking about copper washed bullets like that seen on some 22 caliber ammo, we are talking about electro plated bullets with a copper shell thick enough to withstand some rather normal handgun loads.

Now, that doesn't mean that we can be thoughtless about the data we use to build a load, a bit of caution is a good thing. However, I am concerned that this advice is causing some reloaders to take an approach that is excessively cautious and may create function issues along with the remote possibility of a squib. In addition loads at the low end of the scale tend to be rather dirty shooting and IMO are sometimes too light to provide useful live fire practice.

 

[yep380]

Guys -

Thanks for the information. I've taken in everything here for consideration and appreciate the time you took to write it.

Finally, I don't like relying on one single data source when I'm working up a new load. My normal procedure is to page through every one of the load manuals in my possession AND look at the online data for the powder and bullet manufacturers.

With regard to this, here's what I have:

I have the aforementioned data from the Hornady manual.

The Lee manual (1'st edition) doesn't list any data for alliant power pistol (maybe the 2'nd edition does?).

The Alliant website lists only one load for 380 w/power pistol (Alliant Powder - Reloader's Guide) for a
90gr bullet, with a maximum charge of 4.8gr getting 1020fps in a 3.8" barrel. My understanding is that a lighter bullet will take more powder than a heavy one, so extrapolating that I would think the range given from the Hornady data is right on target for the 100gr bullet.

WRT starting too low, I'm thinking I would start with the second hornady load then and work up from there.

 

[leeloader]

Sounds like you haven't used your Hornady LNL AP for loading so here are a couple items that you might consider. The Hornady, if set up correctly can deliver OAL's averaging +-.002" for a total swing of .004." If you get +-.003" for pistol rounds that aren't in the max area, don't worry about it. That is normal. When you set up a seater for instance, don't expect that to be the same once you later place casings that are entering the other dies at the same time. The slight flexing will change the seater oal. So make your final seater adjustment after you have the other positions in the shell plate busy at the same time.
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If you have not purchased the ptx for the specific round, don't expect the pistol sleeve that came with the press to do the expanding. You have to purchase the separate optional ptx's for the specific rounds like .355 (for 380 and 9), .400 (40cal and 10mm), .358 (38 and 357).
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If you purchase the ptx, the small booklet that came with the powder measure and the separate large sheet addendum for the ptx set up will have a contradiction comment and will not explain the set up fully.
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The contradiction that comes with the ptx states you will not be able to adjust for flair. The larger sheet (is correct) states you adjust for flair by, etc, etc.
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To set up your powder measure using the ptx, do exactly like the small booklet has for setting it up but add 1 to 1-1/2 turn past the full rotor swing (this will be corrected by the ptx stop next).
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Place the ptx stop and spring on per the initial instruction. Adjust the ptx stop to just stop the rotor from smacking at the top of the arch. Now the rest of the press lever travel will force the ptx inside the shell creating the desired belling you prefer.
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That earlier turn to turn and a half is the adjustment for obtaining the desired belling.
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Later on if you get into cartridges that require cannelures, leave your seater a tad bit longer as the crimping will suck the oal down a tad. Consider using a separate crimper. Many like using whatever favorite seater they use than add a Lee FCD for crimp. Never turn the Lee FCD more than one full turn. Score the top of the Lee FCD from center out to the edge using an exacto knife so you can tell how much you have adjusted on the crimp.
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Remember the larger powder measure meter with the mushroomed end is for rifle and the smaller pencil sized is for pistols. The rifle meter may scratch the inside of the upper assembly body if you get below 4gr. I forget the smaller pistol gr before scratching may occur.
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If you know ahead of time the grains, simple make the plunger a bit longer, stick it in the rotor and hold it hole side up and add the pre-weighed powder and turn it up by hand to as close as you can guess-ta-mate then dump out the powder. Put the rotor in the press and you will be very close to the correct setting of grains. Also by doing this you will know if you left some excess lube, etc in the rotor as it will be sticking when you dump it. Later when you get used the amount of grains, you can skip the powder and adjust by eye and be very close. Also you will know enough about the rotor as what will not cause powder to stick in the rotor.
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Have fun.

 

[jepp2]

IMO your starting velocities are too low for either plated or jacketed bullets. Not only will you have potential issues with function you also run a slight risk of lodging a squib in your barrel.

I load for 380's. Did a lot of reading for loading for this new to me cartridge. I only load Montana Gold jacketed bullets. For me I use slightly more than 50% of the bullet diameter for the bullet seating depth. I use the seating depth to determine my OAL of .955".

Powders I used were Win 231 and AA #2. I consulted several load manuals and ran my loads though QL. At the range all functioned just fine and report and ejection seem normal. Velocities for loadings:
Win 231 2.3 gr 642 fps, 2.5 672, 2.7 728, 2.9 783
AA #2 2.0 gr 638 fps, 2.2 691, 2.4 765, 2.6 782, 2.8 828

I liked the accuracy best with the 2.8 gr of AA #2.

I normally consider minimum jacked velocity of over 750 fps. But there were lots of load manual that listed velocities in the low to mid 600 fps speed. But in my BDA 380 they worked just fine.

YMMV

 

[yep380]

When you set up a seater for instance, don't expect that to be the same once you later place casings that are entering the other dies at the same time. The slight flexing will change the seater oal. So make your final seater adjustment after you have the other positions in the shell plate busy at the same time.

Thank you for all the tips and info - much appreciated!

Powders I used were Win 231 and AA #2. I consulted several load manuals and ran my loads though QL. At the range all functioned just fine and report and ejection seem normal. Velocities for loadings:
Win 231 2.3 gr 642 fps, 2.5 672, 2.7 728, 2.9 783
AA #2 2.0 gr 638 fps, 2.2 691, 2.4 765, 2.6 782, 2.8 828

I liked the accuracy best with the 2.8 gr of AA #2.

Thanks for that info. If we ever get to the point that a variety of pistol powders are available, I will check out the AA #2.

Really wish that [powder being available to the point we can have a choice] happens soon/again.