Duty gun help

[scsu74]

Hey all, I'm starting with a new PD soon and they require an M&P 9 or .45 full size. I've only ever shot/carried glocks and don't have much experience with m&p's except for a few range trips.

The times I have shot m&p's I had trouble with the reset and when making follow up shots the trigger wasn't reset on more than one occasion. I did find a thread on here mentioning newer m&p's are shipping with a performance sear, different slide stop and trigger bar. Here is that thread: http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-...duction-updates-slide-stops-barrels-sear.html

My question is, if I buy a new pistol is there a manufacture date that these changes went into effect? If it's made in 2014 would it have all the new updates? I'm looking at staying with the 9 if that makes a difference.

I also spoke with the m&p LEO rep for my area and he mentioned a new "reset" trigger being released in the next month or so. Has anyone heard about this?

One last question, if I order a pistol without a magazine disconnect is it possible to add one later by swapping the sear block or another part? Thanks in advance guys!

 

[Kanewpadle]

It is my opinion that trigger reset is over hyped. Too much emphasis is put on trigger reset and you won't notice it in a fight.

Release the trigger full and you won't have a problem. Practice is key.

 

[Doug M.]

Shooting to the reset is a target shooting concept, not appropriate to fighting. If the trigger is not resetting when you let it all the way off, there is something wrong and the pistol needs to go the mothership or a good gunsmith (maybe even your department armorer). (Kanewpadle beat me to it - a large majority of high quality trainers will make it more explicit that shooting to the reset is a training scar.) Take a look at the writeups on Modern Service Weapons | Your No-nonsense Information Source for Service Weapons, Gear and Training. There are some very savvy folks there (Hilton has tested the heck out of the .45 M&P). My inclination would be the 9mm because ammo is cheaper and you can do more training on your own dime. Either one is perfectly acceptable - modern pistol ammo in the service calibers has performance that is so close that caliber rarely makes a difference.

Before ordering, you might want to be DARNED SURE of the specs the department mandates, and then order what conforms to that. Ordering something and then planning to change the specs to match what you want or must have is a lot less sound than doing it right from the start. (I admit I don't know the answer to the question as phrased ...)

 

[shawn mccarver]

If you would not short-stroke the trigger, you would not have the issue in question.

 

[scsu74]

Letting the trigger all the way out and having to stage it again isn't really how I like to shoot. I don't necessarily shoot to reset, but with the Glock I've slow fired it so much I know exactly how far to let it out to break my next shot. The m&p's I've shot it was impossible to do this as there wasn't any felt reset.

Does anyone know when the updates started taking effect and if it's possible to add mag disconnect?

 

[Rastoff]

If it's made in 2014 would it have all the new updates?

Yes, if it's made in 2014 it should have the updated slide stop (the part that makes the reset more pronounced). There wasn't a cut off date for this update though. I believe they did a rolling update and just put the new parts in as the old ones ran out.

One last question, if I order a pistol without a magazine disconnect is it possible to add one later by swapping the sear block or another part? Thanks in advance guys!

Yes, the magazine disconnect can be installed at a later date. It's an easy conversion should you need to do it. The only difficulty might be getting the parts. Sometimes they are not readily available. Of course there are probably many available through this site because lots of guys have converted the other way and probably have the parts just sitting around.

 

[CB3]

The times I have shot m&p's I had trouble with the reset and when making follow up shots the trigger wasn't reset on more than one occasion.

IMO, the "reset" debate is like the caliber wars. Target or competition shooting may not be the same in life saving importance, but that does not automatically equate to competitive trigger manipulation being useless or inapplicable to self defense shooting. Wasted trigger movement is wasted.

A trigger that travels forward far beyond the actual reset point, whether felt or not, is a trigger that takes longer to release and pull.

Longer trigger strokes also generally decrease accuracy since they require more movement that can translate into grip movement and resultant barrel movement.

Sure, you don't want to short stroke a trigger in a life and death situation. Ignoring a tactile reset by releasing a trigger all the way to the forward resting point, perhaps even disengaging your finger off the trigger then reacquiring it, is not the only way to overcome this problem.

If your trigger is set up to travel forward only a short distance beyond the mechanical reset, you will do OK with full-forward practice in avoiding short stroking.

If, as on many of the Glock's I have shot, the reset is fairly short compared to overall trigger travel to a full forward position, I see nothing wrong with understanding the feel of a tactile reset and stroking the trigger to a comfortable distance beyond that reset that does not involve releasing the trigger all the way forward.

M&P triggers have evolved and continue to evolve because they need to, including improving the tactile reset. Tactile reset is a valid component of defensive shooting. It's not just a target shooting enhancement. A tactile reset does not degrade either form of shooting, but the lack of such may.

A police officer may not have the luxury of tuning his trigger system as civilian defensive or target shooters can. If that is the case, I would want the best out of the box trigger possible and it would include a tactile reset. I would train with it and use it to full advantage.

The FS M&P triggers are of low enough and inconsistent enough quality for feel (function is fine) that there is a strong aftermarket for both enhanced parts and gunsmithing to improve them. I strongly suggest that the OP try a number of guns before deciding which has the best out of the box trigger, especially if he will be able only to polish some components for smoothness.

I also recommend the 9MM over the .45 ACP for reasons stated above, and more importantly, capacity.

 

[Weimar]

when some asks me what kind of pistol they should get, I always tell them the one that feels best in their hand when shooting. Because of the job, you are mandated - this means you need to play with it unloaded a lot, learn all the ins and outs. Take it to the range and shoot it - not hundreds of rounds at one sitting but several times a week at 50 rounds a piece (IMHO). Just let it become part of you until you are so used to it that it becomes second nature.

No slip ups, no excuses from yourself, you will know what it can and can't do.

Just my opinion...

 

[scsu74]

Yes, if it's made in 2014 it should have the updated slide stop (the part that makes the reset more pronounced). There wasn't a cut off date for this update though. I believe they did a rolling update and just put the new parts in as the old ones ran out.

Yes, the magazine disconnect can be installed at a later date. It's an easy conversion should you need to do it. The only difficulty might be getting the parts. Sometimes they are not readily available. Of course there are probably many available through this site because lots of guys have converted the other way and probably have the parts just sitting around.

Would it be easier to order one with the disconnect and remove it? I know I should wait until I get the specs, but it is going to be a lateral academy and we'll probably only have a week or two notice. I'm wanting to send it out to have the grip stippled an that typically takes around a month.

I was on G&R tactical and it looks like they have all the newest parts available for cheap. I think I'm going to order one and send it out for the grip work. If I end up needing a different setup I'll just swap parts. I'm a glock armorer, the M&P can't be all that different. Thanks for all the help guys!

 

[griz517]

As far as the factory installed performance center sear, I spoke to a S&W rep recently and he told me that option is not available for the .45, but it is for the 9 and .40. He acted like it would be an option at some point, but not yet.

 

[Rastoff]

I would order it with the mag disconnect and remove it if I didn't like it. That way you'd already have all the parts.

 

[Atticaz]

The Apex Duty/Carry spring kit would help with that reset issue. I do not shoot to reset. But I like the extra poundage in the trigger, for striker fired handguns without thumb safeties.

I personally installed the Apex polymer trigger, duty/carry spring kit and the sear. The whole setup has the extra poundage that I like, yet smooth crisp pull and reset. Plus that extra pound or so helps the trigger move forward on release, assuring that there isn't any short stroking.

 

[vipermd]

Why would you want a mag safety?? Besides the "mythical" LEO that dropped his mag during a roll on the ground with perp. Fine motor VS gross motor?
As for caliber, as DougM said both will work, but when you find out that they decided to go with ball ammo, you will be drilling a hole in the barrel lengthwise. Be Safe,

 

[Doug M.]

^ It's been a long time since I have heard of an LE agency going with ball. I think NYPD did for a while when they first authorized 9s, and that was a disaster. Even the anti-cop entities like IACP and PERF are not that loony.

 

[dimitri]

To bolster what griz517 said, my 45 mid has a test casing from Feb 2014 and it doesn't have the new trigger bar. Reset is meh. On the other hand, it shoots quite well and I really like it .. it is stock, btw. I shoot it better than my 9FS, which also doesn't have the new trigger bar, but does have the Apex DCAEK.

 

[Rastoff]

Why would you want a mag safety??

It may be a requirement of the department.

 

[scsu74]

It may be a requirement of the department.

Yep, it is. I think it's pretty stupid personally... But oh well. Any recommendations for online dealers? Best price I've found is bud's, $399 w/ free shipping, but they're out of the one I want.

 

[redrock]

Go back to G&R and look for the first responder link on the left side of the first page. The best M&P 9 to buy is the LE product code 151215. Grant described it as "The Taj Mahal as they call it. All the current fixes, upgrades, etc in one gun. The finish on it is PVD (rust proof)." It is $100 more than the Bud's price (on a different SKU gun), but it comes with 3 mags, night sights and the LE only finish. Money well spent, IMO.

 

[scsu74]

Go back to G&R and look for the first responder link on the left side of the first page. The best M&P 9 to buy is the LE product code 151215. Grant described it as "The Taj Mahal as they call it. All the current fixes, upgrades, etc in one gun. The finish on it is PVD (rust proof)." It is $100 more than the Bud's price (on a different SKU gun), but it comes with 3 mags, night sights and the LE only finish. Money well spent, IMO.

I didn't realize those were stocking yet! I spoke with the LEO S&W rep and this was the model he recommended as well, 151215 is supposed to have a new "reset" trigger in it as well. I don't think this model has the mag disconnect though...

ETA: Just received a phone call from the dealer that provides the guns for the academy classes and the model number he gave me is 309701.. no mag safety or thumb safety. I'm going to have a friend double check with the range guys, but looks like I'll be able to pick up the 151215. Anybody know if the internals are the same in the 151215 and 309301? I want to add Trij HD sights so it wouldn't make much sense to order one with the S&W NS.

 

[redrock]

Anybody know if the internals are the same in the 151215 and 309301? I want to add Trij HD sights so it wouldn't make much sense to order one with the S&W NS.

I would double check, but given the 209301 is the SKU for the non-LE variant with all the latest changes, I would *guess* the 309301 is the latest LE gun with all the updates. But it still doesn't have the PVD finish; which would really be a worthwhile addition for duty carry. Were it me, I would get the 151215 and swap out the sights. You could easily recoup a fair portion of the cost by reselling them in our classified section, or maybe ask Grant if he would be interested in offsetting the cost of the HD sights in trade and have him install them before he ships.