Boox
Member
Recnetly had this exchange with the good people at alliant regarding powder. I'm curious as to your thoughts, are his answers real?
first, my question to them...
To: Alliant Reloading
Subject: Alliant Powder - Ask the Expert Form
Mark Bookman
Since I'm having NO LUCK finding Bullseye within 100 miles, I'm asking you guys, Where is the Powder. I have not seen any Bullseye in almost a year. Don't tell me you are at full production, selling it as fast as you can, because that is preposterous, if that is the case, it should be available somewhere, it's not available at all, where is it going?
Inquiring mind wants to know.
Alliant's response...
Alliant Reloading
Jun 13
to me
Mark,
It is indeed a highly frustrating time for a reloader.
Alliant Powder has NOT been bought out by anti-gunners. Alliant used to be Herco and has been going since the late 1800's. Much to the conspiracy theorists, there is nothing going on as far as the government limiting our production. All that is is fodder for the internet to enrage folks. Nothing more.
We are producing more powder today than we ever have. We are running the facilities 24/7 and as I said, making more of it than ever before.
There are several things happening today.
One is the "scalpers". These are the folks, waiting for the trucks to be unloaded at the stores and pulling the powder out of the hands of the shelf stockers in the stores. Talk to the people in the stores and they will tell you that the same people are there every day/week at the same times. They know when the supplies are delivered. They are then buying as much as the store will allow, because many of the stores are putting an allotment for purchases. Then these guys are having family and friends purchase more product. The next weekend you will find these powders they have purchased at the gun shows and selling it at 2 - 3 - 4 times what they paid for it. This is a common theme.
Along these lines you have the hoarders. People are going out and purchasing more ammunition than they can possibly use in four lifetimes. Powder will also fall into this category. I have talked to folks and posed the question to them that five years ago, if you saw powder on the shelf, how much would you have purchased. Most of the time the answer was one maybe to containers. Then I asked them, so today, how many would you purchase and the answer is that they would fill the shopping cart up.
Another fact is that every day I am answering questions from reloaders that have pulled out their presses that they have had in storage for the last 15 - 20 - 30, or more, years and starting to reload again. It is not just one or two of these questions we are receiving a day, but many.
Finally there are the OEM's. OEM's fall into two categories. There are the big boys, such as Remington, CCI/Speer, Hornady, and Winchester are sucking up powder and powder resources like a fiend. Then there are the remanufacture ammunition companies. Near where I live I can think of half a dozen remanufacture companies that have sprouted up over the last several years. Both of these OEM's are trying to fill the shelves with ammunition in our stores. This is the biggest drain on the powder resources.
We use a two tiered distribution system for delivering the powders. The powder is shipped to a distributor. From there, the powder is sent off to dealers, wholesalers and retail outlets. Once the powder is sent to the distributor, we have no control as to where the powder may end up. Having worked in retail in the past, and going through such shortages, we ordered supplies from many different distributors. These distributors may have been 100 miles away, or they may have been across the country. In other words we were not putting all of our eggs in one basket when it came to ordering. The last small firearms store I worked out told me during the primer shortage a few years back, "If all of my primer orders/backorders come in tomorrow, I'm bankrupt". Once the orders started to appear, backorders were cancelled quickly. Yes, there are problems at times with the two tier distribution system, especially at times like this, but it is the best system we have.
Recently, I have had success finding powders at the smaller mom and pop stores. Yes, I have to purchase my powders from the same place you do as we have been told that the employees will be the last customer served. One of the reasons I believe the smaller stores may be more successful is for the following reason. The big stores are just auto-generating their orders. The computer is ordering for them. The mom and pop stores are putting in the time searching the distributors and seeing what is available every day and making orders immediately. I guess what I am saying is don't overlook the smaller mom and pop stores.
So if we can get the "scalpers" to halt their actions, get ammunition supplies back on the shelf and stop the hoarders from purchasing 4 lifetimes supplies of ammunition and powders, things should start to look up.
And things are starting to show sign of easing. We have seen several factors showing this. Gun sales have dropped. Primer orders are slowing. We are seeing more ammunition on the shelves today than we were six to eight months ago. Finally, as I said, having worked in retail in the past, these kind of shortages lasted a year to a year and a half. We are into this just over a year. All of these facts lead some of us to believe that things may start to be easing by mid to late summer. On that hand though, don't hold me to this. All it will take is someone stepping into another school or movie theater and performing another hideous act. If that happens, we fear it will start all over again.
If you want to read another take on what is happening, not just mine, take a look at Sierra Bullets - The Bulletsmiths . Sierra Bullets does not make ammunition or powder, but, the vice president of that company wrote an excellent article on the shortage of ammunition. It is on the rotating screen of their front page explaining the 22 ammuntion shortage. Many of the same issues with the 22 shortage could also be applied to the powder shortages.
I know all of the above does not make it any easier to take but, that is pretty much what is going on.
Thanks,
Shoot Straight
DuaneVB
CCI/SPEER/ALLIANT POWDER
My response to his message...
Mb <[email protected]>
Jun 13
to Alliant
OK Duane, that's your story. Now, I live in the remote area also known as the real UPSTATE NY. I get up and look at Canada while I have my morning coffee. Within a 100 mile radius of my location, over the last eight months, NO ONE has had any Bullseye. The closest I can get to Bullseye was Hodgdon CFE Pistol and it sucks. It has also disappeared. Now there are only 7 gun stores that offer any powder in my area, within 100 miles. One is Gander mountain. The rest are small owner operated stores, mom and pops if you will, and I find it unusual that NONE of them can even get Bullseye. I have been searching the internet suppliers for the last 6 months, and THEY can't get Bullseye. So, while I understand the logic of your response it seems as though it's all BS. I could understand if one or two couldn't get it, but all of them? I have backorders with 6 different internet sellers, I'm sure you can check them, these backorders are 4 to 6 months old and I'm willing to bite the bullet and pay the hazmat fee, IF I could get it. I'm pretty sure the little guys I deal with aren't BSing me, I've done business with them all over the years and know 3 of the owners personally, they claim their distributors are saying they can't get it. So who's telling the real truth? So it would appear that Hoarders, Scalpers and the like also can't get it because i go to every gun show around and there's almost no powder unless you want Pyrodex.. Need a better excuse.
nice talking to ya
mark
BTW, there was no response to this message...So, what do you think? Are the scalpers and hoarders beasting the distributors to the punch?
All opinions are welcome
Boox
first, my question to them...
To: Alliant Reloading
Subject: Alliant Powder - Ask the Expert Form
Mark Bookman
Since I'm having NO LUCK finding Bullseye within 100 miles, I'm asking you guys, Where is the Powder. I have not seen any Bullseye in almost a year. Don't tell me you are at full production, selling it as fast as you can, because that is preposterous, if that is the case, it should be available somewhere, it's not available at all, where is it going?
Inquiring mind wants to know.
Alliant's response...
Alliant Reloading
Jun 13
to me
Mark,
It is indeed a highly frustrating time for a reloader.
Alliant Powder has NOT been bought out by anti-gunners. Alliant used to be Herco and has been going since the late 1800's. Much to the conspiracy theorists, there is nothing going on as far as the government limiting our production. All that is is fodder for the internet to enrage folks. Nothing more.
We are producing more powder today than we ever have. We are running the facilities 24/7 and as I said, making more of it than ever before.
There are several things happening today.
One is the "scalpers". These are the folks, waiting for the trucks to be unloaded at the stores and pulling the powder out of the hands of the shelf stockers in the stores. Talk to the people in the stores and they will tell you that the same people are there every day/week at the same times. They know when the supplies are delivered. They are then buying as much as the store will allow, because many of the stores are putting an allotment for purchases. Then these guys are having family and friends purchase more product. The next weekend you will find these powders they have purchased at the gun shows and selling it at 2 - 3 - 4 times what they paid for it. This is a common theme.
Along these lines you have the hoarders. People are going out and purchasing more ammunition than they can possibly use in four lifetimes. Powder will also fall into this category. I have talked to folks and posed the question to them that five years ago, if you saw powder on the shelf, how much would you have purchased. Most of the time the answer was one maybe to containers. Then I asked them, so today, how many would you purchase and the answer is that they would fill the shopping cart up.
Another fact is that every day I am answering questions from reloaders that have pulled out their presses that they have had in storage for the last 15 - 20 - 30, or more, years and starting to reload again. It is not just one or two of these questions we are receiving a day, but many.
Finally there are the OEM's. OEM's fall into two categories. There are the big boys, such as Remington, CCI/Speer, Hornady, and Winchester are sucking up powder and powder resources like a fiend. Then there are the remanufacture ammunition companies. Near where I live I can think of half a dozen remanufacture companies that have sprouted up over the last several years. Both of these OEM's are trying to fill the shelves with ammunition in our stores. This is the biggest drain on the powder resources.
We use a two tiered distribution system for delivering the powders. The powder is shipped to a distributor. From there, the powder is sent off to dealers, wholesalers and retail outlets. Once the powder is sent to the distributor, we have no control as to where the powder may end up. Having worked in retail in the past, and going through such shortages, we ordered supplies from many different distributors. These distributors may have been 100 miles away, or they may have been across the country. In other words we were not putting all of our eggs in one basket when it came to ordering. The last small firearms store I worked out told me during the primer shortage a few years back, "If all of my primer orders/backorders come in tomorrow, I'm bankrupt". Once the orders started to appear, backorders were cancelled quickly. Yes, there are problems at times with the two tier distribution system, especially at times like this, but it is the best system we have.
Recently, I have had success finding powders at the smaller mom and pop stores. Yes, I have to purchase my powders from the same place you do as we have been told that the employees will be the last customer served. One of the reasons I believe the smaller stores may be more successful is for the following reason. The big stores are just auto-generating their orders. The computer is ordering for them. The mom and pop stores are putting in the time searching the distributors and seeing what is available every day and making orders immediately. I guess what I am saying is don't overlook the smaller mom and pop stores.
So if we can get the "scalpers" to halt their actions, get ammunition supplies back on the shelf and stop the hoarders from purchasing 4 lifetimes supplies of ammunition and powders, things should start to look up.
And things are starting to show sign of easing. We have seen several factors showing this. Gun sales have dropped. Primer orders are slowing. We are seeing more ammunition on the shelves today than we were six to eight months ago. Finally, as I said, having worked in retail in the past, these kind of shortages lasted a year to a year and a half. We are into this just over a year. All of these facts lead some of us to believe that things may start to be easing by mid to late summer. On that hand though, don't hold me to this. All it will take is someone stepping into another school or movie theater and performing another hideous act. If that happens, we fear it will start all over again.
If you want to read another take on what is happening, not just mine, take a look at Sierra Bullets - The Bulletsmiths . Sierra Bullets does not make ammunition or powder, but, the vice president of that company wrote an excellent article on the shortage of ammunition. It is on the rotating screen of their front page explaining the 22 ammuntion shortage. Many of the same issues with the 22 shortage could also be applied to the powder shortages.
I know all of the above does not make it any easier to take but, that is pretty much what is going on.
Thanks,
Shoot Straight
DuaneVB
CCI/SPEER/ALLIANT POWDER
My response to his message...
Mb <[email protected]>
Jun 13
to Alliant
OK Duane, that's your story. Now, I live in the remote area also known as the real UPSTATE NY. I get up and look at Canada while I have my morning coffee. Within a 100 mile radius of my location, over the last eight months, NO ONE has had any Bullseye. The closest I can get to Bullseye was Hodgdon CFE Pistol and it sucks. It has also disappeared. Now there are only 7 gun stores that offer any powder in my area, within 100 miles. One is Gander mountain. The rest are small owner operated stores, mom and pops if you will, and I find it unusual that NONE of them can even get Bullseye. I have been searching the internet suppliers for the last 6 months, and THEY can't get Bullseye. So, while I understand the logic of your response it seems as though it's all BS. I could understand if one or two couldn't get it, but all of them? I have backorders with 6 different internet sellers, I'm sure you can check them, these backorders are 4 to 6 months old and I'm willing to bite the bullet and pay the hazmat fee, IF I could get it. I'm pretty sure the little guys I deal with aren't BSing me, I've done business with them all over the years and know 3 of the owners personally, they claim their distributors are saying they can't get it. So who's telling the real truth? So it would appear that Hoarders, Scalpers and the like also can't get it because i go to every gun show around and there's almost no powder unless you want Pyrodex.. Need a better excuse.
nice talking to ya
mark
BTW, there was no response to this message...So, what do you think? Are the scalpers and hoarders beasting the distributors to the punch?
All opinions are welcome
Boox
). I haven't bought powder from a brick and mortar store for over a year and a half. I have a good stock of powder (about a years worth) and consequently I am selective when I buy online (minimum of 4#, 8# is better to spread out the hazmat fee). I only am looking for a few powders. Last winter when it was really hard to find powder, I bought 8# or SR7625, I've never used it but keep it as a "Plan C". Powder is out there (online), you just have to be persistent and check various places often. When you see it, order immediately. Last week some Autocomp popped up on Gunbot (I was watching when it appeared). I ordered the maximum 4# (I don't like ordering just 4#, but Autocomp is one of my "preferred" powders). After I ordered my 4#, Gunbot changed to "Sold Out". Total time from first appearing to sold out was less than 5 minutes.
