The FBI Affect

[federali]

Few can argue that the FBI exerts an enormous influence on law enforcement firearms, ammunition and training techniques. Most of you are familiar with the infamous 1986 FBI Miami Shootout, which, as a result of a 9mm bullet failure (at 47 yards) led the FBI first to the 10mm, then to the .40 S&W. Whether directly as a result of this, law enforcement followed suit and flocked to the .40 S&W.

Now, the FBI is returning to the 9mm. I can only guess that the snappier recoil of the .40 is creating training problems where much of their staff is of smaller stature. My guess, is that LE agencies will not be quick to jump on the FBI bandwagon but time will tell.

If you know of an LE agencies contemplating a return to the 9mm, please let us know.

 

[Federalis]

During my lackluster 28+ year career, we went from the .38+P+ to the .357 Mag, to the 10mm and then the .40 SW which seemed to be a compromise. When I heard they were now going to the 9mm, I knew they had come full-circle with a solution to a non-existent problem. The Bureau has always tried to accommodate those that needed extra "FA training" without regards to the effectiveness of a handgun round... just my .2 cents....

 

[DR505]

If you look at the most recent round of FBI testing, you'll see, by the FBI criteria, there is little gained with the .40 S&W over the 9mm. Bullet construction has come a LONG way from 1986 Silvertip designs.

I don't care who you are, or how big you are, it is easier to get follow-up shots with a 9mm than it is a .40 S&W. ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL, why choose a round that has more recoil for no/slight added benefit? YMMV

Edit to add....In the interest of full disclosure, I have a .45 ACP on my hip right now.

 

[rwsmith]

People in the FBI...

People in the FBI has to take what is issued them. We don't have such a limitation. Stout .38s, .357s, 10mm, .40 cal, 9mm. Heck we can use a .45 or .380 if it suits us. I appreciated the data they've accumulated over the years, but I use the data and not the gun they issue.

 

[the ringo kid]

Locally, they all are now carrying M&P40s(SP?) There was a big news story on that about 2 or so months ago. All I can say since i aint tetched one yet--its an impressive-looking piece. )

 

[VictorLouis]

Believe that that a G22/23 is the 'issue', for those who want it. They are allowed other guns in other calibers from an approved list. Basically, there has to be an armorer within the agency who can work on that gun when it needs something done to it. Sig, Smith, Glock, Beretta etc.

 

[BigDaddy7972]

I dunno. I used to watch the FBI as a kid but other than that the FBI hasn't impacted my life. Not a hater but not a fanboy either.

 

[doc84]

We did it in 2010.

 

[max]

I have read a lot about the Miami incident and have a hard time calling the 9mm result to be a "failure". If I remember right, it took the top of his aorta off. It was a "fatal" wound, but not instantaneous. Would another round entering the same spot have been instantly fatal? I don't know.

 

[rimfired]

Do I really have to remind the FBI that their influence is an "effect", not an affect.
Or am I just being a grammar nudge?

I have never owned a '40. I bought one of the first Colt 10's in the day. First mag through it blew the white front dot off. Controllable but intense recoil.

I was shooting the old IPSC and PPC back then in the early 80's. Reloading my own .45 ACP. Still do and stick with it.

 

[Ματθιας]

Since the ABQ PD banned the use of private purchase firearms, they are required to use dept issued S&W and Glock 9mms.

On a side note, I think the local feds still carry G22s.

 

[Jessie]

I've read recently that the military is looking to replace their 9mm with something a little more potent. Too many complaints about terminal performance apparently.
Haven't heard any more yet, but the caliber wars are alive and well!

 

[LVSteve]

I've read recently that the military is looking to replace their 9mm with something a little more potent. Too many complaints about terminal performance apparently.
Haven't heard any more yet, but the caliber wars are alive and well!

Apples and oranges. LE can use hollow points, the military cannot.

 

[Shorty 45 MK2]

The local PD near me use 9mm+P, .40 or .45, County uses .40 and State uses .357 SIG.

 

[DR505]

FBI is issued Glock 22/23. You can also get an issued Glock 17/19. You can buy a Glock 21, 26, or 27. A few Sigs are still on the grandfathered list.

The only FBI armorers are in Quantico. All guns go back to the Mothership for maintenance.

 

[DR505]

Do I really have to remind the FBI that their influence is an "effect", not an affect.
Or am I just being a grammar nudge?

When I first read the title, I thought the OP was describing a mental disorder.

 

[sigp220.45]

Locally, they all are now carrying M&P40s(SP?) There was a big news story on that about 2 or so months ago. All I can say since i aint tetched one yet--its an impressive-looking piece. )

The M&P, in any caliber, is not now (nor has ever been) approved for FBI carry, either as an issued gun or a POW.

 

[vonn]

Caliber doesn't seem to matter if you hit the target in the proper location . Just my experience.

 

[sigp220.45]

Believe that that a G22/23 is the 'issue', for those who want it. They are allowed other guns in other calibers from an approved list. Basically, there has to be an armorer within the agency who can work on that gun when it needs something done to it. Sig, Smith, Glock, Beretta etc.

Nothing but Glocks now, and a very few (like mine) grandfathered Sigs. SWAT guys can carry issued Springfield 1911s, or pay $2k for a POW version.

 

[Marshwheeling]

I have a friend, retired LEO from a local suburban department. Unlike most cops, he actually was in a couple of gun fights over the course of his career. He had no problem with 9mm as far as its ability to stop a man. His complaint was that it wasn't good enough at penetrating hard cover, and that .40 made a difference in that regard.

Take that with a grain of salt, if you like, because by the time you read this it's third-hand, and I'm just passing on what was told to me.