Negligent Discharge - Happens in an instant!

Rastoff said:
No, I don't agree. Actually, Cooper said it like this, "All guns are always loaded." I will always handle guns as though they are loaded.
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So you clean your gun while it's loaded?

How do you dry-fire a loaded gun?

Either you never clean it or you at least temporarily disregard that rule, rendering it a mere suggestion. Do you routinely discharge a gun inside your home? If it's always loaded then how do you dry-fire it? Oh wait, you set the rule aside.

No, if you clean it or dry-fire it you are not treating it as though it is loaded. Only a crazy person would clean a loaded gun.
 
Colt used to make a 22lr conversion for the 1911. Had several over the years. Took one to my local indoor range on my favorite 45 ACP frame. Loaded it up and dropped the slide. Fired all 10 rounds, so fast it sounded like one shot. I always test a new to me semiauto with one round first, then 2 rounds. Seriously, any semiauto can go full auto on you. Keep them pointed in a safe direction.

I have also seen bolt action rifles that fire when the safety is taken off. So, check yours for that often.

Twice I have been handed a loaded gun in a gun shop.

People get shot at gun shows.

Most accidents happen when people are loading/unloading guns.

If you CC, leave your weapon in the holster. Dont take it out until you put it up. The safest place for a handgun is in your properly designed holster.

THINK at all times when you have a gun in your hands.
 
I'm ashamed to admit I joined the club yesterday. After a range trip I cleaned my new 342PD and was practicing dry firing it, and wiping off some residual CLP that was weeping out around the trigger. Did this several times, then reloaded the gun and put it down. Was stowing the cleaning gear and picked up the gun to dry fire it again. BAM! Shot thru the closet door, thru the thick solid wood clothes hangar bar in the closet, and into the back wall. I immediately unloaded the gun, and was grateful to see the round did not go thru the wall into the bathroom (135gr Gold Dot). I don't think my dog will ever enter that room again, she was sitting in the doorway when it happened.

I'm glad you started this thread and wished I had read it before my incident.

I'm incorporating many of the "rules" described in the thread. The first thing I thought of was once loaded, the gun is immediately put in the pocket holster. If not in the pocket holster it is unloaded (or being used for defense).


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It's really quite sobering to read through this thread and realize just how prevalent ND's are. Thank you to all who've admitted the mis-deed, it will serve as a reinforcement to adhere to proven gun handling procedures. Please be safe everyone!
 
PersDef said:
It's really quite sobering to read through this thread and realize just how prevalent ND's are. Thank you to all who've admitted the mis-deed, it will serve as a reinforcement to adhere to proven gun handling procedures. Please be safe everyone!
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I'd be willing to bet a C Note and give odds that over 75% of the police stations in this country have a bullet hole or two where one ought not be . . .
 
Mainsail said:
So you clean your gun while it's loaded?

How do you dry-fire a loaded gun?
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Maybe I wasn't clear previously. Allow me to try again...

I clean my guns while they are disassembled. Once disassembled they are no longer firearms. All of my guns can be disassembled without breaking any of the 4 rules. Even so, I keep the muzzle pointed toward something I'm not concerned about if it gets shot (which can't happen because the gun can't fire because it's disassembled). I also clean/inspect all my barrels from the breech end. Thus, I never look down the muzzle. Thus, the muzzle is never pointed at something I'm not willing to destroy.

Since you want to be "technical" I will agree to be technical too. Technically a gun cannot be dry fired. The term "fire" can only be used when a live round is in the gun. Therefore, I don't ever dry fire my guns, but I do a lot of dry practice that includes pressing the trigger with an empty chamber.

I don't know if you read my list of dry practice rules or not, but if you had, you would see that all the 4 basic rules are followed. A dry practice area is designated. A target is put up, every time. That target is placed in such a way that if a ND were to happen, no one would get hurt and nothing I care about will be damaged/destroyed. During dry practice I:
  • Always handle the gun as though it were loaded.
  • Always keep the muzzle pointed in a direction where nothing I care about will be destroyed.
  • Always keep my finger off the trigger until I'm pointed in with my sights aligned on the target.
  • Always keep aware of my target and what's in line with it.

Now, please tell me which of those rules are violated by cleaning or doing dry practice?
 
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Had one with a .357 in a 640 Pro. The resulting permanent tinnitus is a constant reminder of the four rules.
 
Rastoff said:
I also clean/inspect all my barrels from the breech end. Thus, I never look down the muzzle. Thus, the muzzle is never pointed at something I'm not willing to destroy.
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No offense, but that is absolutely ridiculous. Seriously.

Since you want to be "technical" I will agree to be technical too. Technically a gun cannot be dry fired.
During dry practice I:
  • Always handle the gun as though it were loaded.
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  • Unless you routinely discharge firearms inside your home as part of every day life, you are not by any means handling the gun as though it were loaded. The moment your finger entered the trigger guard you violated your Rule One. Pulling the trigger is only a further violation of your rule. So you are admitting that Rule One (and remember a rule must be inviolate to be called a rule) must be suspended in order to dry practice.

    I'll make it even simpler:
    "Dad, why are you going to shoot that target you put up?"
    "Well, son, I'm doing dry practice"
    "But dad, you said all guns are always loaded, why are you going to shoot that target you put up with a loaded gun?
    "Son, all guns are always loaded, but mine is sorta not really kinda loaded right now."
    "Dad, that doesn't make sense."

    "Treat all guns as though they are loaded until you verify it is not. If it leaves your hand for even a moment, re-verify its status." That rule is a rule that will (if followed) prevent NDs, is easily achievable, and does not need to be disregarded in order to clean, display, or practice. Your rule demands that you disregard it in order to do any maintenance or practice, and does cause NDs.
 
Mainsail said:
No offense, but that is absolutely ridiculous. Seriously.
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Well, that's how I do it whether you think it's ridiculous or not. Yes, including revolvers.


Mainsail said:
"Treat all guns as though they are loaded until you verify it is not. If it leaves your hand for even a moment, re-verify its status." That rule is a rule that will (if followed) prevent NDs, is easily achievable, and does not need to be disregarded in order to clean, display, or practice. Your rule demands that you disregard it in order to do any maintenance or practice, and does cause NDs.
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I guess we have a different point of view. But let me ask you this, is it OK to point a gun at someone once you've verified that it's unloaded?
 
I've never had one, thank god, and have been shooting for 30 years but I guess I sorta witnessed one. My dad had an accidental ignition I guess would be the term instead of a nd.
Long story short while loading on his star progressive press he had a 45 ignite. Never really figured it out, I was sitting in the basement when it happened lubing bullets at the tender age of 10.
I had to change my pants.
 
-db- said:
While negligent discharges aren't uncommon, I disagree with the notion that almost everyone who handles guns long enough is going to experience one. ... I'd wager that many, if not most, gun owners do not experience negligent discharges..
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I agree. The odds of ND are drastically reduced by habits that are over-cautious and always rigorously followed. ND comes from being too relaxed around the weapon.

Personally for me:
  • No loaded arms in the safe
  • Ammo is not allowed in safe -- separate locked storage
  • I go through the actions of "unloading" when placed in safe, and taken from safe -- even though I know they are already unloaded.
  • Ammo is not allowed on workbench or gun cleaning area
  • Ammo is placed in cabinet before gun cleaning begins
  • Loaded arms only allowed for home protection at "ready" sites -- and are unloaded when removed from ready site
  • Carry arms are loaded when leaving house and unloaded when returning. and always stay in holster.

Basically the rule is the only place that ammo is near, and my hand is on the grip (let alone the trigger), is at the range, or in the woods.

I know this will sound obsessive to many of you but, I do all this because I feel that if I did ever ND, I would strongly consider quitting the hobby.
 
I think the subject has been pretty well covered by all the posts here, but I wanted to add a general warning to those who think that they could never do something as foolish as suffering a ND. Do you think you could ever accidentally fill your gas tank with diesel fuel? Well, I will admit that I have done so TWICE. Once about 30 years ago, and I am not sure how, I filled up a half empty gas tank on a Chevy Suburban with diesel. The car still ran, but with little power and a whole lot of smoke coming out of the tailpipe for a long time. But then, just two years ago, I did the same thing with an empty gas tank on my motorcycle. I guess I was distracted and despite my earlier stupidity with diesel fuel I let it happen again. This time the bike would not start up and run at all and I had to have it towed to the shop for the tank to be drained and the injectors cleaned.

Every time, and I mean every time, that I am at the range I say to myself, "watch out that you don't fill up with diesel" to remind myself to not take lightly even the most basic and routine safety procedures. I fully know that it is so easy to get distracted or otherwise end up doing something really foolish, but if you do so with a gun, the outcome can be a tragedy.

A thread like this one is a good reminder to everyone here to keep their head clear and never forget the basic rules of gun handling.
 
How the heck do you put diesel in a gas tank, the pump nozzle does not even fit in the hole. Gas in diesel yes, but the other way around???

And for heavens sake, if you are not on high alert every time you pick up a gun, you need to get out of the hobby. Good lord forgetting you loaded your gun, what the hell?

I find it ridiculous, just like man shoots wife while "cleaning' his gun. Last I checked you can't even begin to clean a gun until you open the chamber, and if you stick a rod in the barrel without opening the chamber you should only be able to shoot yourself.

Holy **** this makes me angry.

Sorry for the rant. But I have raised three kids around firearms for the past twenty years and have myself been dealing with them for over 30 and I do not understand this at all. Not one of us has ever had a ND and that is because these things are not toys. When its gun time its gun time nothing else.

Like cutting your fingers off on a table saw. Certain things you do should never ever be subject to distraction.
 
Riccur said:
How the heck do you put diesel in a gas tank, the pump nozzle does not even fit in the hole. Gas in diesel yes, but the other way around???

And for heavens sake, if you are not on high alert every time you pick up a gun, you need to get out of the hobby. Good lord forgetting you loaded your gun, what the hell?

I find it ridiculous, just like man shoots wife while "cleaning' his gun. Last I checked you can't even begin to clean a gun until you open the chamber, and if you stick a rod in the barrel without opening the chamber you should only be able to shoot yourself.

Holy **** this makes me angry.

Sorry for the rant. But I have raised three kids around firearms for the past twenty years and have myself been dealing with them for over 30 and I do not understand this at all. Not one of us has ever had a ND and that is because these things are not toys. When its gun time its gun time nothing else.

Like cutting your fingers off on a table saw. Certain things you do should never ever be subject to distraction.
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You evidently do not drive a diesel.
FYI, ALL non-truck stop gas stations that carry diesel fuel have standard diameter filler nozzles, that vary in color..................some green, some black, etc. Even most truck stops that have an automobile section have pumps with standard diameter nozzles in that area. It is very easy to confuse the diesel handle with the gasoline handle, if you're not paying attention.
(I LIKE your gun related comments and agree with the mindset presented)
 
Around here the diesel nozzles are a larger diameter than the gas nozzles and will not go into the hole on a gas car, don't ask me how I know. Now on a bike, I can see that as the fill hole on a bike doesn't have that same restriction plate in it.
 
dave holl said:
You evidently do not drive a diesel.
FYI, ALL non-truck stop gas stations that carry diesel fuel have standard diameter filler nozzles, that vary in color..................some green, some black, etc.
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No, this is simply wrong. Any deisel nozzle I've ever used was larger. That doesn't mean they are all that way. It simply means what you said is incorrect.
 
Rastoff said:
No, this is simply wrong. Any deisel nozzle I've ever used was larger. That doesn't mean they are all that way. It simply means what you said is incorrect.
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Thanks for the correction. I purchase gasoline infrequently............I didn't realize there are THREE different sizes of nozzles.
 
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