Maker of these stocks?

[linde]

About six month ago Enigma started a thread “Help with grip ID” and -db- was able to positively identify his as Herrett Troopers.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-hand-ejectors-1896-1961/405446-help-grip-id.html

While some of the stock experts were assembled, I took the opportunity to ask about the maker of these stocks . . . but we were unable to come up with an answer. They have the toe relief of Herrett Troopers, the ribbon border similar to Ropers, and checkering run-out of Sandersons . . . but also have their own unique characteristics.

With six months more knowledge under our collective belts, has anyone since had an epiphany?
















Thanks for your thoughts, Russ

 

[gdogs]

Look like Sanderson to me.

 

[SAFireman]

Sanderson was the first thing that came to mind when I saw the photos.

 

[Green Frog]

Another vote for Sanderson... that checkering sort of whispers "Sanderson" to me. I'd be more certain if the typical match/batch numbers were inside, but sometimes they are missing.

Froggie

 

[-db-]

My guess would be Cloyce, who worked for or otherwise had something to do with Herrett's back in the good old days. The ribbon is sort of a Cloyce trademark of sorts. See this photo of Cloyce stocks forum member gdogs originally posted here: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...k-collecting-junkies-unite.html#post136758382

Another set of Cloyce stocks:

A very fancy set Bill Cross has can be seen here: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...ho-made-these-roper-ish-grips.html#post832245

More Cloyce info here: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-re...-do-you-think-these-ropers.html#post136038572

 

[Green Frog]

-db- what bothers me about the "Cloyce connection" is the shape of the ends of the checkered panels. Cloyce seems to favor a sweeping curve, while the mystery grips display more of a pointed end. The ribbon alone is not quite enough to convince me, but I could be persuaded...

Froggie

 

[-db-]

I'm not going to try to argue the point for I may very well be wrong, but I simply see more Cloyce in Russ' stocks than I do Sanderson (whose stocks feature ribbons rarely, if ever) or anyone else.

 

[H Richard]

I'm going the other direction, I think they are from a talented amateur trying to copy the styles of more famous makers. The little details just don't look as good as Sanderson would have done them. The checkering ends along the ribbon, the border cuts. Someone whose techniques are not quite perfected yet.

 

[410bore]

Cloyce, 100%.

 

[gdogs]

I'm sticking with Sanderson. All of my Cloyce grips have a clearly defined "U" shaped border around the checkering, which these grips do not. Cloyce's diamonds, while not perfect around the borders are better done than these grips, and very much look like Sanderson's checkering to me. But the cut out in the front is what seals it for me, it just screams Sanderson. It has been my observation that the more unusual the grips, the less likely Sanderson was to stamp a number. It seems like his numbering system was more a matter of keeping sides matched up then it was a designation of model or style. One last thing that makes me think they aren't Cloyce, all of mine have an additional hole drilled in the top of the inletting - possibly to fit a jig?

 

[-db-]

But the cut out in the front is what seals it for me, it just screams Sanderson.

Herrett's are also known for the front window cutout at the toe...and then there's that Cloyce/Herrett's connection.

Some other thoughts:

I'm thinking that if they're Cloyce, they're some of his earlier work which might explain the lesser quality/coarser checkering. I think the ribbon and perhaps even more importantly, the screw hole not centered in the ribbon where we would expect to find it, are almost certainly his (I've yet to see a set of Sandersons with such a ribbon). Furthermore, the toe hole might be something he picked up from, or perhaps contributed to, Herrett's stocks.

In other words, I think concentrating on the checkering, or any other single relatively minor feature, alone is a mistake when trying to identify mystery stocks like these. A stockmaker's checkering is going to change, typically get better, over time, so that can never really be a 100% thing. We have to look at the bigger picture, all of the other features, and see where the majority of them, or the most defining feature(s), point us to. In this case, that would be Cloyce.

But I may be wrong.

I wish we knew more about Cloyce and his relationship to Herrett's stocks.

 

[Modified]

I'd wager if they were a known maker that they weren't a commercial offering. Maybe a test or a practice set.

I will say that my first instinct is to label them cloyce if anything. Maybe an early set?

 

[gdogs]

I guess I'm just not seeing anything that looks like Cloyce's work? There aren't a ton of photos out there of his grips, but all that I've seen have a very rounded pattern to his checkering. I own 5 pair, and they all have that style of checkering, and a wide/deep "U" shaped border. Now what he did at Herrett's prior to going off on his own could be completely different. He was making someone else's patterns, so I would imagine he cut and checkered them the way they wanted.

Obviously craftsmen like this developed greater skill the longer they worked, but I've never seen a set of Sanderson's with diamonds pointed all the way to the border. Not because I don't think he could, it was just a choice he made, possibly to save time, or could be it just didn't matter to him. And while I do agree that we can't just look at checkering, Sanderson's is very distinguishable, at least in my mind. That said, all of my Cloyce grips screw in from the right panel, all of my Sanderson's from the left.

These look a lot like 410bore's J frame set in the first post of this thread - in terms of shape.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...ock-appreciation-thread-post-your-stocks.html

 

[linde]

Many thanks to everyone for their thoughtful observations and comments . . . they have been a real education for me and I suspect appreciated by everyone.

Whoever made these great custom grips they pass the ultimate test for me . . . they feel great in my hand and point instinctively on target.

Russ

 

[-db-]

Whoever made these great custom grips they pass the ultimate test for me . . . they feel great in my hand and point instinctively on target.

That's what's most important, us stocks geeks quibbling over details aside.