I's All In The Tactics

[federali]

Mindset, Judgment, Tactics, Marksmanship, Firearm. The winning elements listed in order of importance.

Yesterday, at 3 AM, an apparently unarmed West Babylon (NY) homeowner became suspicious of an automobile containing three men, parked in front of his private residence. Instead of calling the police, he went out to investigate and to challenge the car's occupants. Nothing good happens at three o'clock in the morning.

Cutting to the chase, the three men emerged from their car, pulled a gun and marched the homeowner back into his home where a fight ensued and the homeowner was shot and seriously wounded before the three men fled.

I cite this incident because, even though the homeowner was not armed, he could have escaped the home invasion and bullet wound if he'd exercised a bit of judgment. This is a classic case of poor judgment and reinforces what police trainers have been saying for years: the biggest and baddest firearm will not compensate for poor judgment and tactics. Even if I were armed, I would not have done the police department's job for them.

Once you leave the confines of your home, you also leave the friendliest of self defense laws. Outside, you step into a legal minefield where the ability to safely retreat become a major issue.

Food for thought!

 

[shotgun693]

To be blunt, only an idiot waltzes out at 3:00 am to confront suspicious people in a car without some kinda gun. And you are correct, call the Cops. There's a good chance they would have left if he'd have just flashed the porch light on and off a couple of times.

 

[snuffy51]

All very well written and correct.

I can't add anything to this except to remind everyone that knowing the laws of self defense and the use of deadly force is as important as being able to hit what you shoot at. Must also practice your thinking as that is as important as your shooting. Be aware and stay safe. Let the police do their job IF possible. You can only protect yourself from imminent danger.

 

[Arik]

If that,was me, if possible get the license plate number, make, model, color......if possible. ...AND CALL 911!!!

[emoji35]

 

[Don 73]

If that,was me, if possible get the license plate number, make, model, color......if possible. ...AND CALL 1911!!!

[emoji35]

9-1-1 or 1911 as in the Colt?

 

[Kid44]

Tactics really have nothing to do with this incident. The only tactic that should have been employed was calling the police if he was that concerned. After thinking about this for a while it seems to me that if he was up at 3AM, saw a suspicious car with 3 guys in it, confronted them and they took him back to his own home and supposedly shot him that just maybe they were there for him to begin with. something here does just not quit add up, other than the guy was a moron.

 

[Arik]

9-1-1 or 1911 as in the Colt?

I ment 9 1 1. Stupid auto correct

 

[Arik]

Tactics really have nothing to do with this incident. The only tactic that should have been employed was calling the police if he was that concerned. After thinking about this for a while it seems to me that if he was up at 3AM, saw a suspicious car with 3 guys in it, confronted them and they took him back to his own home and supposedly shot him that just maybe they were there for him to begin with. something here does just not quit add up, other than the guy was a moron.

Not necessarily. They could just be a bunch of hoodlums/gangsters who didn't like being confronted. Plenty of stories of these guys shooting people for looking at them or as a right of passage to the gang. They may have been scoping out a house to rob or a far to steal

 

[Old cop]

During the latter part of my LEO career I lived just outside my jurisdiction by about three miles. Almost the same thing happened to me, but at around 11 PM. I called the county police and let them deal w/it. Too dark for me to get a tag number w/o walking up on the car. Gotta use your head for something other than a punching bag.

 

[Kid44]

Not necessarily. They could just be a bunch of hoodlums/gangsters who didn't like being confronted. Plenty of stories of these guys shooting people for looking at them or as a right of passage to the gang. They may have been scoping out a house to rob or a far to steal

Not necessarily?? Excuse me, he was unarmed, alone AND he confronted not one, but 3 guys. He's a moron.

 

[Arik]

Not necessarily?? Excuse me, he was unarmed, alone AND he confronted not one, but 3 guys. He's a moron.

I ment it's not necessarily that the were after him specifically to begin with

 

[Arik]

just maybe they were there for him to begin with.

Not necessarily ^^^^

 

[petepeterson]

While the outcome was unfortunate, it certainly is not unexpected. No tactics involved here. Poor judgment, for sure. Even armed, Three to One isn't a good thing.

 

[old&slow]

As Forrest Gump would say ,,, Stupid is as stupid does ,,

Or John Wayne ,, Life is tough ,, It's even tougher if you are stupid..

 

[elm_creek_smith]

After I retired from the army some 20 years ago, I was delivering pizzas while waiting for the other employment opportunities to come pouring in and one night I figured out that carload of "young people" was following me through a neighborhood. I stopped at a stop sign (obeying the law, y'know), and their car pulled up so close that I couldn't see the headlights. I saw the doors pop open, and I turned around in my seat and lit them up with a gretbigo 12 volt handheld spotlight plugged into the cigarette lighter,...er,...power outlet. They were still blinking when I drove away. Beat having to shoot someone over pizza money.

The guy should have called 9-1-1. You can't fix stupid, though.

 

[THE PILGRIM]

Back during the summer here in Albuquerque, there were teenage gangs roaming neighborhoods late at night.
They stole from cars, broke into cars and vandalized properties.
When a homeowner went out and challenged them, they killed him.
So be careful,
5 of 6 teens charged in murder of Albuquerque man had criminal histories | Local News - Home

 

[YogiBear]

Aloha,

If I'm up at 3am, it's to let the dogs out.

Usually I use my Surefire to light up the front gate to make sure that it is closed so the dogs don't run out.

There is a spot I can't see hidden by low trees and part of our front wall.

If there is a car parked there, Every one in the area will know when the dogs start Barking. If there is, they usually leave immediately.
Otherwise the dogs are totally quiet when they go out.

 

[Protected One]

In my opinion, anyone who's judgment is poor enough to do that should not be handling a gun.

 

[Rastoff]

Once you leave the confines of your home, you also leave the friendliest of self defense laws. Outside, you step into a legal minefield where the ability to safely retreat become a major issue.

Not just a legal minefield, but a tactical one as well. Why anyone would leave a barricaded position is beyond me. It was indeed very poor judgement on his part.

In my opinion, anyone who's judgment is poor enough to do that should not be handling a gun.

Well, you're right and he wasn't.

 

[Duckford]

The subject in question was very stupid in what he did. Even if, for some bizarre reason or circumstance, you have to go out and confront them, calling for help is still #1.

I live out in the country in a very small county. There are about 10 sheriff's deputies that also serve the local municipalities by contract, and I think maybe two highway patrol for the whole county. Maybe you have two officers in the whole county at one time, especially during the trouble morning hours where the no goods are out. Really, though, it is one of the lowest crime places in the US, if not the world, so its never been an issue.

However, it makes the theory of defense around here much different. The police could literally be 40 minutes away, not 4. People who live in the usual places, those more heavily inhabited, can more readily rely on police response and response times, but here in the sticks, this could, or might easily not, be the case.

So, what about the case of the farmer, rancher, or country person far away from the city, which itself isn't always regularly patrolled? What happens if burglars show up and start stealing valuable tools and equipment necessary for them to work and to live their lives? The shop equipment someone needs to make a living, someone stealing the machinery that keeps the farm going, some yahoo starts killing cattle, or the modern day rare rustler? If you catch kids vandalizing important buildings, people stealing hundreds of dollars worth of diesel from a service tank?

Does he defend his lively hood, or does he sit back? Being a good witness and letting the cops do the real work is always the best option. But, how close to you get to a vehicle to get a plate number and proper description? Should you try to interfere with the activity, make your presence known? How serious a loss could it be, and what steps might you have to take?

So someone starts to load up your tools at 3 in the morning. If you just sit and wait for the police, in the dark, you may not have any evidence of who they are, they could get away, and next thing you know you can't even go to your self employed work because its impossible. Do you think at some point, being armed and confronting these people becomes more of an option, something that you might consider?

Not every single situation is the same, sometimes the circumstances dictate actions. Even if the original subject of the thread was wrong, do you think there are cases where calling 911 and taking your own actions may be warranted?