A +P .380 question

[Jessie]

Now, I know I may get flamed for asking this, but, is a Walther PPks rated for +P?
I found that Buffalo Bore makes a .380 100 gr +P hard cast solid which is no good in a Ruger LCP but maybe ok in the Walther?
It sounds like a good .380 load if so.

 

[Erich]

There is no SAAMI spec for ".380+P" - so the ammo is overpressure .380 ammo, but the degree to which it is overpressure is not established. A maker like Buffalo Bore is probably not crazy about it, but I am not aware of any gun maker that would say, "Our gun is good-to-go with any overpressure ammo you can cram into the chamber." Which is what you're asking, since there is no recognized pressure standard for ".380 +P" - so, Walther's answer is going to be "No, our PPK/S is not rated for .380 +P."

(BTW, I have used Buffalo Bore ".380 +P" ammo in my locked-breech Ruger LCPs and keep it in one of them. Not recommending you or anyone else do the same, but the 95-gr FMJ loading gives me just south of 1100 fps from that tiny gun.)

 

[alwslate]

No semi auto is going to be rated by the manufacturer for +P .380
ammo because there is no such thing as +P .380 ammunition. There
are only four cartridges that are designated as +P and for which
industry standard pressure limits have been establishd. 38 special,
38 super, 9mm and .45 acp. These four have +P versions of the
standard pressure versions that are officially recognized and for which
industry standard pressure limits have been established.
You're going to see various comments regarding +P .380 ammo but
as of yet there's no such thing recognized by the firearms industry.

 

[walkinghorse]

WHY ?
You want more, go 9mm, want more, go .357 mag! Assuming you want to stay with the same bore size?
Of course there are gun size increases, muzzle blast increases, etc.
And then someone gets to post on the net stories and pictures of xyz destroyed, sometimes with blood and gore?
And maybe we can get everyone excited and discuss .38 special +P!
Different generations of firearms, different metallurgy, different bullet designs, makes the world go around! And the net gets to replay, over and over!
Want facts listen to Erich and alwslate !

 

[DWalt]

There are only a few .380 autoloading pistols which are of locked breech design. Aside from those few exceptions, all .380s are blowback. The use of high pressure loads in a blowback pistol could cause serious damage due to high slide velocity. That's why (at least to my knowledge) there are no +P loadings made for the .380. I guess you could say much the same for the .32 ACP.

 

[Jessie]

All I know is that its sold and labeled as +P.
I have 9mm, .357s, etc. I also have an LCP which it states in the manual "no +P".
I have no manual on the Walther and its a much beefier gun compared to the LCP.
I just wanted to use the most effective ammo in the guns I have.
It sounds like it wouldn't be a great idea so I won't be buying any of it.
It does make me wonder why they even make it then?
Thanks for the replies.

 

[Skybull]

Both the Beretta Pico and the Kahr 380 are rated to accept 380 Plus P ammunition. States that in the owners manuals.

 

[Rpg]

A 380 is a 380: gee whiz ammo doesn't make it anything more.

I'm much more concerned with reliability than ballistic tables and photos of ballistic gel

Most owners of 380's don't shoot them enough to develop great skill.

You're better off using lots of ball ammo - for practice and sd - than hoping some gee whiz ammo will make up for the shooter's more modest skill and the great liklihood that the shooter hasn't shot enough rounds of the gee whiz stuff to determine its reliability and develop much skill with it.

 

[keninnavarre]

There are only a few .380 autoloading pistols which are of locked breech design. Aside from those few exceptions, all .380s are blowback. The use of high pressure loads in a blowback pistol could cause serious damage due to high slide velocity. That's why (at least to my knowledge) there are no +P loadings made for the .380. I guess you could say much the same for the .32 ACP.

And the ppks is a blowback design. Personally I wouldn't use anything called +p in any blowback pistol. You are relying on the slide mass and recoil spring only. The action is not "locked" when firing, the very least problem would be your pistol being battered to death. Worse case scenario, slide leaving frame and hitting the shooter in the head, or out of battery ignition, the list of possible failures goes on and on...just not worth it.

That being said, I personally DO shoot and carry BB+p .380 in my Ruger,Colts, Glock, and other locked breach designs.

 

[DWalt]

As I think has been previously stated, SAAMI has no +P peak chamber pressure specification for the .380. If Buffalo Bore states it is selling a +P load, it is not following SAAMI peak chamber pressure standards for that caliber. There is nothing illegal about doing that, as SAAMI specs are voluntary, but I'd think BB could have legal liability if someone gets hurt while using that ammunition. Does anyone know what chamber pressure the BB +P .380 load operates at?

My theory. Most major ammunition manufacturers always load their ammunition to peak chamber pressures somewhat below the SAAMI-established maximum. BB is probably just pushing the envelope by loading closer to the upper limit of the SAAMI mean average pressure (21,500 psi) than the other ammo makers, and simply calling it a +P load for advertising purposes.

 

[824tsv]

Where's member SaxonPig when you need him!

 

[Jessie]

I've contacted BB requesting their chamber pressures for the different .380 +P loads. Ill report what I find out.

 

[Florida J Frame]

As I recall from the final results of the Shooting the Bull .380 tests the BB didn't even make the top group. He found almost any XTP round did a better job. I just re-watched the test and the reason he failed the BB round is it penetrated 45" in ballistic gel. Why would you want a SD round that over penetrates to that extent?

 

[Erich]

As I recall from the final results of the Shooting the Bull .380 tests the BB didn't even make the top group. He found almost any XTP round did a better job. I just re-watched the test and the reason he failed the BB round is it penetrated 45" in ballistic gel. Why would you want a SD round that over penetrates to that extent?

Sasquatch.

 

[Faulkner]

Every time I hear the term ".380 +p" it I think of jumbo shrimp.

 

[Horn]

Check Lehigh's Xtreme Penetrator

All I know is that its sold and labeled as +P.
I have 9mm, .357s, etc. I also have an LCP which it states in the manual "no +P".
I have no manual on the Walther and its a much beefier gun compared to the LCP.
I just wanted to use the most effective ammo in the guns I have.
It sounds like it wouldn't be a great idea so I won't be buying any of it.
It does make me wonder why they even make it then?
Thanks for the replies.

Check out "Shooting the Bull" video about Lehigh's 380 90r. Extreme Penetrator. The bullet resembles a Philips head screwdriver! After watching the video you decide. I have it loaded in my Sig P232 as a desk mounted pistol. I carry a Shield 9 with
Federal's HST ammo.
That BB 380 is interesting.

 

[federali]

Designed in Europe

The Walther PP series guns were designed to function with European ammo. Their ammo is loaded a bit HOTTER than domestic ammo. You might call it: +P-1/2. This normally isn't a problem except that European 380s seem to run more reliably when fed European made ammo. Wonder why?

I've owned two PPK/s's, a European one and a domestically made gun. Both lacked the level of reliability needed to stake your life on them.

 

[Florida J Frame]

Sasquatch.

Just make sure what's behind your target!

 

[Old cop]

I believe S&W says that my M&P .380 is okay w/+P but since there is no +P standard I'll give it a pass. HPR hollow points cycle perfectly and offer all the performance you're likely to get for this small pistol. I carry mine b/c it's easy to slip into a pocket, it's reliable, accurate and I'm too lazy to pack anything bigger.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Went to the Buffalo Bore site and WOW pretty pricey if you ask me.
Think I'll just stick to the cheap stuff and just shoot twice.