Obsolete Cartridge Loading

[bigolddave]

Nonte's Home Guide to Cartridge Conversions uses 38/55 brass to make the .401. May be a moot point, as there are apparently more readily available donors.

How in the world did a .401 Winchester end up in Sweden, and why did Kynoch make ammo? It's a weird world!

 

[Buford57]

Load Data

Lyman Manual #45 lists the following:

200 gr. Jacketed (.406 to .407)

Unique Start 13.0 gr. for 1597 fps/Max 15.2 gr. for 1811 fps
2400 Start 22.0 gr. for 1718 fps/Max 24.7 gr. for 1915 fps

212 gr. cast

Unique Start 12.0 gr for 1618 fps/Max 14.9 gr for 1845 fps
2400 Start 21.0 gr for 1773 fps/Max 23.5 gr for 1960 fps
IMR 4227 Start 26.0 gr for 1915 fps/Max 29.0 gr for 2074 fps

240 gr. Cast

Unique Start 11.0 gr for 1470 fps/Max 13.7 gr for 1672 fps
2400 Start 20.0 gr for 1669 fps/Max 22.0 gr for 1818 fps
IMR 4227 Start 24.0 gr for 1506 fps/Max 27.5 gr for 1968 fps

NOTE: BOTH OF THE MAX LOADS OF IMR 4227 ARE COMPRESSED LOADS

I also checked the 41st Edition, but it has no data for the .401. At least these are all powders still in production.

You may be interested to know that Babe Ruth was known to have used a .401 for moose in Maine during his heyday. But then, the Bambino could have gone moose hunting with a Louisville Slugger.

I had one and a full box of Western factory ammo once. Never got around to shooting it. Got the gun in trade without a magazine and by the time I found one somebody offered me a sweetheart deal for the package.

 

[ageingstudent]

Are you having issues with feeding/chambering? My Lyman manuals show a max. COAL as 2.005"

No issues feeding. The newer bullets are just shorter but the canelure is in a different place so it evens out. I just had to measure and do some math to make sure the capacity was the same and the powder wouldn't get sqiushed. It was okay.

 

[ageingstudent]

Winchester think's that it was an exelent beargun

Nice find on the ad that's cool. Still not gonna go after a grizzley with it haha. I'll just make sure to be in the woods with someone I can outrun.

 

[ageingstudent]

Nonte's Home Guide to Cartridge Conversions uses 38/55 brass to make the .401. May be a moot point, as there are apparently more readily available donors.

How in the world did a .401 Winchester end up in Sweden, and why did Kynoch make ammo? It's a weird world!

Evidently the French and Russians bought quite a few around WWI. That's what I have read anyway.

 

[2152hq]

Another case that converts very easily to .401 is a somewhat odd one called the 414 Super Mag.
It's an extra long 41 Magnum that Elgin Gates designed. T/C and Dan Wesson chambered guns for it.,,maybe a couple of the short lived SA makers.
Starline makes the brass. Not exactly cheap,,but other than turning the rim down a little,,it's ready to go through the 41Mag or 401 dies for loading. No expanding necks or reducing bases.
Trim to Length may be needed ,but they are very close to the .401 case length IIRC.

I'd thought of using plain 41Mag brass with the rim turned down to the semi rim dia of the 401WSL,,sort of a .401 WSL Short.
It headspaced on that semi-rim anyway and the casemouth crimp holds the bullet in place,,so why wouldn't they work. Maybe they wouldn't feed?,,but that'd show up quick enough w/a couple of dummy rounds.
41Mag brass doesn't grow on trees either,,seems to be a pattern developing...
Oh well,,more time and effort into a relic of a rifle that does nothing more than shoots at targets and sticks on a dirt bank.
But it's fun.

 

[ageingstudent]

Another case that converts very easily to .401 is a somewhat odd one called the 414 Super Mag.
It's an extra long 41 Magnum that Elgin Gates designed. T/C and Dan Wesson chambered guns for it.,,maybe a couple of the short lived SA makers.
Starline makes the brass. Not exactly cheap,,but other than turning the rim down a little,,it's ready to go through the 41Mag or 401 dies for loading. No expanding necks or reducing bases.
Trim to Length may be needed ,but they are very close to the .401 case length IIRC.

I'd thought of using plain 41Mag brass with the rim turned down to the semi rim dia of the 401WSL,,sort of a .401 WSL Short.
It headspaced on that semi-rim anyway and the casemouth crimp holds the bullet in place,,so why wouldn't they work. Maybe they wouldn't feed?,,but that'd show up quick enough w/a couple of dummy rounds.
41Mag brass doesn't grow on trees either,,seems to be a pattern developing...
Oh well,,more time and effort into a relic of a rifle that does nothing more than shoots at targets and sticks on a dirt bank.
But it's fun.

Yeah I was looking at brick and mortar stores today and didn't see any 41 mag stuff there either. It does seem to be fading.

That's good to know about the .414 I might have to try that.

 

[Nemo288]

Good places to find information on the supermags are

The Dan Wesson Forum
The Los Angeles Silhouette Club

The latter also is one of the best sources for cast bullet lore in one place there is.

----
Nemo

 

[ageingstudent]

Good places to find information on the supermags are

The Dan Wesson Forum
The Los Angeles Silhouette Club

The latter also is one of the best sources for cast bullet lore in one place there is.

----
Nemo

Sweet Nemo thank you

 

[JSR III]

It may be cheaper to bite the bullet (pun intended) and just buy some. A quick search on GB shows a few boxes for sale. You are going to pay $3 to $4 per round but still probably cheaper than buying dies, cases and whatever else is needed to make your own. Reloading is great fun but sometimes its just better to by old ammo.

 

[Nemo288]

Reloading is great fun but sometimes its just better to buy old ammo.

And then reload it!

 

[Frank46]

If you are getting into reloading then you should also try bullet casting as well. Cast your own bullets and you've got one side of the equation licked. Frank

 

[DWalt]

I think the .401WSL is a neat cartridge, but its limits (and those of the rifle) must be respected. Holt Bodinson did an article on getting one shooting years ago in a Gun Digest annual, but I can't remember which one. As I recall, he got custom .406" bullets to 2000 fps, but his "normal" loads were a good bit tamer, to save wear and tear on the brass and the rifle. He called the 401 his "Blammer" because it has a unique sound signature, and all his hunting buddies knew when he pulled the trigger.

I also have seen the GD article on the .401, but can't give you the edition or year - maybe 20 or so years ago. It's a good article, and you really should try to find it. I believe the .35 Rem case was recommended as being the starting point for forming a .401 case. A problem would be finding .401 reloading dies. You would probably have to order a special set at $$$$. An important thing to remember about all of the WSL rifle cartridges is that you don't have a lot of room for experimentation. Due to the blowback action, all loads must be fairly close to factory ballistics in order to get reliable functioning. Bullets shouldn't be a problem, but you may have to cast your own.

I have a partial box of pre-WWII .401 ammo just in case I ever find one of those Model 1910 rifles.

 

[steve61]

I reload the 401. Great cartridge!

 

[Snoopz]

Lyman Manual #45 lists the following:

200 gr. Jacketed (.406 to .407)

Unique Start 13.0 gr. for 1597 fps/Max 15.2 gr. for 1811 fps
2400 Start 22.0 gr. for 1718 fps/Max 24.7 gr. for 1915 fps

212 gr. cast

Unique Start 12.0 gr for 1618 fps/Max 14.9 gr for 1845 fps
2400 Start 21.0 gr for 1773 fps/Max 23.5 gr for 1960 fps
IMR 4227 Start 26.0 gr for 1915 fps/Max 29.0 gr for 2074 fps

240 gr. Cast

Unique Start 11.0 gr for 1470 fps/Max 13.7 gr for 1672 fps
2400 Start 20.0 gr for 1669 fps/Max 22.0 gr for 1818 fps
IMR 4227 Start 24.0 gr for 1506 fps/Max 27.5 gr for 1968 fps

NOTE: BOTH OF THE MAX LOADS OF IMR 4227 ARE COMPRESSED LOADS

I also checked the 41st Edition, but it has no data for the .401. At least these are all powders still in production.

You may be interested to know that Babe Ruth was known to have used a .401 for moose in Maine during his heyday. But then, the Bambino could have gone moose hunting with a Louisville Slugger.

I had one and a full box of Western factory ammo once. Never got around to shooting it. Got the gun in trade without a magazine and by the time I found one somebody offered me a sweetheart deal for the package.

Ole Lyman 44th edition is the same as above.

-Snoopz

 

[Nemo288]

This article:
Real Guns - Fabricating Brass for Obsolete Cartridges
explains how to make the .401 from 7.62x39 cases fairly easily.
He says the 35Rem cases will take more work and may need inside neck reaming.
I have done that to make 445 out of 303 and 30-40 brass and it's a PITA.
I could not find reference to the GD article during a quick search the revealed the above link.

 

[DWalt]

I had to look up the .401 article. It is in the Handloader's Digest, not the Gun Digest, 12th Edition, 1990, Page 14, by Holt Bodinson, entitled "The .401 Lives!"

In Donnelley's cartridge conversion manual, .401 information is given on page 516. He recommends starting with the 9.3x72R case (good luck on that). .401 case dimensions given:
Case Length 1.50"
Head Diameter .429"
Neck Diameter .428"
Rim Diameter .457"
Rim Thickness .042"
Bullet Diameter .406"
COAL 2.00"
Loading given with 200 grain bullet: 31.0 grains of IMR 4227, MV = 2100 ft/sec

It does look like the .35 Rem case is not a great choice as a conversion starting point, as the base diameter is too large and would have to be turned down a little on a lathe, and probably the neck wall thickness reamed out. But if you had a lathe, it would work OK.

The 7.62x39mm Russian case rim is quite a bit too small in diameter, but it it might work if others say it does. Necking the caliber upward from .30 to .40 is not nearly as simple as the article makes it appear to be. Expect a lot of ruined cases.

I'd probably be tempted to start by using the .30-30 case, as its base not that much smaller in diameter than the .401, and the .30-30 rim diameter is large enough to trim easily. I form .303 Savage cases from .30-30 brass with no problems and the .303 Savage case has an even larger base diameter than the .401, so it would probably work OK. If I were to start forming with a .30-30 case, I would probably fire form it in the .401 chamber before I attempted anything else, probably with a turn of tape at the base to act as a centralizer.

You will still have the problem of finding reloading dies. The closest common caliber dies that might work is the .41 Magnum, however the base and mouth diameter of the .41 Mag case is about 0.005" larger than the .401, and that is probably too much. Might be worth a try if you have or can borrow a .41 Mag die set to see.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

You guys do realize this thread is 2 years old, right?

 

[Qball]

You will still have the problem of finding reloading dies. The closest common caliber dies that might work is the .41 Magnum, however the base and mouth diameter of the .41 Mag case is about 0.005" larger than the .401, and that is probably too much. Might be worth a try if you have or can borrow a .41 Mag die set to see.

TaDaa....

401 Winchester- MidwayUSA

I traded for a set of .41mag tools and they worked too
at least in my gun, with .30x39 brass.

 

[DWalt]

10mm or 40 S&W dies might also work for loading the .401, but they are a little on the tight side of the correct diameter, just as the .41 Mag is a little on the loose side. I sure would like to find a nice M1910 WSL cheap just to try reloading for it. I remember seeing only one I would consider buying in my life, about 10 years ago, and it was a little pricey for me.