The two M69s that I bought in early 2014 now have 2,500 and 4,700 rounds respectively.
Here’s some more data points that might be of interest.
I measured the throats on my 2 M69s with plug gauges. On both, the .429 is a go, the .430 is a no go – say .4295”.
Also measured the barrel/cylinder gap -- .004” feeler gauge go, .006” no go. Both guns were the same.
Haven’t tried any bullets lighter than 240gr. Have shot 240s at 750 fps thru 325gr BTB LWNGC at 1,180 fps (load straight from Hodgdon manual.
I’ve pretty much settled on three loads, two for everything but every day carry. Everyday carry 260gr LBT WFNGC at 1,220 fps. The other two:
429244 Thompson Gas Check at 265grs (Avail from Montana BulletWorks, Matts Bullets and Garners Cache)
seated deep in .44 mag cases and crimped over front drive band - overall length of 1.572” (basically .44 spcl OAL)
17.5gr A2400
WLPs
Chronoed at 1,140 fps
240gr Laser Cast SWCBB
seated deep in .44 mag cases and crimped over front drive band - overall length of 1.502”
6.5gr HP38
WLPs
Chronoed at 880 fps
Both loads will do 1 1/2”or better rested at 25 yds w/the Thompson Gas Check showing a bit better accy which is about as good as I can do.
For Reference, 21.2gr A2400 w/250gr Keith Lyman 429421 (20.0gr is max in latest Speer Manual) chronos 1,250 fps at 5 paces and 83 deg F from the same 4 ¼” M69. Federal Factory 240gr .44 Mag chronos 1,217 fps.
I shot this from a rest at 25 yards with factory open sights and rear sight bottomed out. Point of aim was large center diamond for all loads. Was trying to get some indication of different Points of Impact with various loads. Only shot two of each to minimize effect of recoil on the shooter (me).
The 250gr Keith load was 17.5gr (not 17.0) A2400.
Load Data for REFERENCE ONLY -- NOT A RECOMMENDATION – DO YOUR OWN DUE DILLIGENCE -- There might be typos and lead bullets may not be the same configuration.
240gr below are Laser Cast SWC BBs
240gr, 5.6gr HP38, ... 739 fps avg, 36 fps ES (WLPs, seated deep and crimped over front dr band (OAL 1.502).
240gr, 6.5gr HP38, ... 883 fps avg, 32 fps ES (WLPs, seated deep and crimped over front dr band (OAL 1.502).
240gr, 9.4gr Longshot, ... 1,078 fps avg, 18 fps ES (WLPs, seated deep and crimped over front dr band (OAL 1.502).
240gr, 10.6gr HS6, ....... 1,035 fps avg, 24 fps ES (WLPs, seated deep and crimped over front dr band (OAL 1.502).
240gr, Federal Fact (No. 44A), ..... 1,217 fps avg, 12 fps ES
(We chroned this load at 1,375 fps from a 7 1/2" Bisley Hunter.
240gr Horn JHP XTP, 24.0gr H110 …… 1,323 fps (Hodgdon says 1,522 fps from 8.275” Bbl)
250gr Keith SWC (429421), 21.1gr A2400 …… 1,250 fps (WLPs, crimped in crimp grove for nomal OAL)
260gr LBT, WFNGC gr H110 …. 1,224 fps (Crimped in crimp grove for normal OAL) -- THIS IS MAX LOAD
265gr SWCGC, 17.5gr A2400,...... 1,142 fps avg, 37 fps ES (WLPs, seated deep and crimped over front dr band (OAL 1.570).
When seated deep (as was done here), this load will run right at or a bit above 1,200 fps from a 6" barrel.
270gr Speer JSP, 21.5gr H110 ……. 1,153 fps (My 6” 629 gives 1,207 fps -- Hodgdon says 1,421 fps from 8.275” Bbl)
Note: Above H110 loads used Fed Large Pistol Magnum Primers, and New Top Brass (Scharch). All others used mixed cases and Win Large Pistol (WLPs) except the 250 Keith/21.1gr A2400 used new Top Brass and WLPs.
Load Data for REFERENCE ONLY -- NOT A RECOMMENDATION – DO YOUR OWN DUE DILLIGENCE.
300gr WFNPB 1.651" OAL - LBT type - source unknown.
20.0gr H110.
Fed 155 (Mag)
New Top Brass (Scharch.com).
1,102 fps avg, 37 fps ES
310gr RNFPGC DC 1.605" OAL (top crimp grove) - LEE mold.
20.0gr H110.
Fed 155 (Mag)
New Top Brass (Scharch.com).
1,141 fps avg, 23 fps ES
325gr WLNGC 1.711" OAL - Beartooth Bullets.
22.0gr H110.
Fed 155 (Mag)
New Top Brass (Scharch.com).
1,182 fps avg, 13 fps ES (3 shots only)
Load Data for REFERENCE ONLY -- NOT A RECOMMENDATION – DO YOUR OWN DUE DILLIGENCE.
==================================================
The Hogue 500s worked great making my guns comfortable to shoot with the heavier loads. I have a problem with grips that are hard or narrow at the top (or both) -- recoil just hammers the bone at the base of my thumb -- the Hogue 500s pretty much solve this problem for me.
The 300s were not bad at all recoil wise, but were noticeable and the 325gr/1,180fps a bit more so. Certainly won’t shoot many of these.
============================================
Brian Pearce covered the M69 and appropriate load data in Dec 2014 (#293) issue of Handloader Magazine. If you have a M69, you should consider ordering a copy from Wolf Publications http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/index.cfm?magid=689 .
With the Hornady 240 XTP Brian listed 24.5gr H110 as Max. A max load of 21.5gr of A2400 was listed as max for both the 240gr Nos JHP and 250gr Keith.
Here’s a brief recap of the article excluding load tables.
Article addressed strength & durability w/long term use of .44 Mag level ammo – shot over 2,700 round while testing and discussed engineering features.
S&W Reengineered yoke to place enough supporting steel surrounding bbl threads to handle Magnum pressures and allow increased barrel shank diameter.
Due to location of bolt notches (chamber wall thickness at weakest point is .040” in 629 vs. .052 in M69) cylinder strength is more than adequate to handle .44 Mag pressures. Ball detent lockup is a plus and “aids chamber alignment and durability”.
All endurance package features previously/currently incorporated in 29/629s have been included in M69.
Brian quotes S&W “the L=frame has a strong durable frame and barrel built for continuous Magnum useage”. Further, S&W engineers subjected the M69 to endurance testing with full power .44 Mag ammo and passed with ease.
Per Brian “IT SHOULD BE EMPHASIZED, HOWEVER, THAT THESE GUNS ARE NOT DESIGNED FOR LOADS THAT EXCEED MAXIMUM SAAMI PRESSURE GUIDELINES FOR THE .44 MAGNUM, OR 36,000 PSI”.
Regarding recoil he said the smaller L-frame’s lower bore axis “translates into decreased muzzle lift, less felt recoil and quicker follow up shots”.
Balance of article is basically discussion of load data specific to the M69 with some other observations.
Showed a table comparing velocities M69 vs M629 with various factory loads (210gr thru 300gr). Also included a couple of load data tables covering bullets from 180 – 300gr.
================================================
The L Frame .44 mag is one of my favorites -- it just works for me.
Thought this might be of interest.
Paul
Here’s some more data points that might be of interest.
I measured the throats on my 2 M69s with plug gauges. On both, the .429 is a go, the .430 is a no go – say .4295”.
Also measured the barrel/cylinder gap -- .004” feeler gauge go, .006” no go. Both guns were the same.
Haven’t tried any bullets lighter than 240gr. Have shot 240s at 750 fps thru 325gr BTB LWNGC at 1,180 fps (load straight from Hodgdon manual.
I’ve pretty much settled on three loads, two for everything but every day carry. Everyday carry 260gr LBT WFNGC at 1,220 fps. The other two:
429244 Thompson Gas Check at 265grs (Avail from Montana BulletWorks, Matts Bullets and Garners Cache)
seated deep in .44 mag cases and crimped over front drive band - overall length of 1.572” (basically .44 spcl OAL)
17.5gr A2400
WLPs
Chronoed at 1,140 fps
240gr Laser Cast SWCBB
seated deep in .44 mag cases and crimped over front drive band - overall length of 1.502”
6.5gr HP38
WLPs
Chronoed at 880 fps
Both loads will do 1 1/2”or better rested at 25 yds w/the Thompson Gas Check showing a bit better accy which is about as good as I can do.
For Reference, 21.2gr A2400 w/250gr Keith Lyman 429421 (20.0gr is max in latest Speer Manual) chronos 1,250 fps at 5 paces and 83 deg F from the same 4 ¼” M69. Federal Factory 240gr .44 Mag chronos 1,217 fps.
I shot this from a rest at 25 yards with factory open sights and rear sight bottomed out. Point of aim was large center diamond for all loads. Was trying to get some indication of different Points of Impact with various loads. Only shot two of each to minimize effect of recoil on the shooter (me).
The 250gr Keith load was 17.5gr (not 17.0) A2400.
Load Data for REFERENCE ONLY -- NOT A RECOMMENDATION – DO YOUR OWN DUE DILLIGENCE -- There might be typos and lead bullets may not be the same configuration.
240gr below are Laser Cast SWC BBs
240gr, 5.6gr HP38, ... 739 fps avg, 36 fps ES (WLPs, seated deep and crimped over front dr band (OAL 1.502).
240gr, 6.5gr HP38, ... 883 fps avg, 32 fps ES (WLPs, seated deep and crimped over front dr band (OAL 1.502).
240gr, 9.4gr Longshot, ... 1,078 fps avg, 18 fps ES (WLPs, seated deep and crimped over front dr band (OAL 1.502).
240gr, 10.6gr HS6, ....... 1,035 fps avg, 24 fps ES (WLPs, seated deep and crimped over front dr band (OAL 1.502).
240gr, Federal Fact (No. 44A), ..... 1,217 fps avg, 12 fps ES
(We chroned this load at 1,375 fps from a 7 1/2" Bisley Hunter.
240gr Horn JHP XTP, 24.0gr H110 …… 1,323 fps (Hodgdon says 1,522 fps from 8.275” Bbl)
250gr Keith SWC (429421), 21.1gr A2400 …… 1,250 fps (WLPs, crimped in crimp grove for nomal OAL)
260gr LBT, WFNGC gr H110 …. 1,224 fps (Crimped in crimp grove for normal OAL) -- THIS IS MAX LOAD
265gr SWCGC, 17.5gr A2400,...... 1,142 fps avg, 37 fps ES (WLPs, seated deep and crimped over front dr band (OAL 1.570).
When seated deep (as was done here), this load will run right at or a bit above 1,200 fps from a 6" barrel.
270gr Speer JSP, 21.5gr H110 ……. 1,153 fps (My 6” 629 gives 1,207 fps -- Hodgdon says 1,421 fps from 8.275” Bbl)
Note: Above H110 loads used Fed Large Pistol Magnum Primers, and New Top Brass (Scharch). All others used mixed cases and Win Large Pistol (WLPs) except the 250 Keith/21.1gr A2400 used new Top Brass and WLPs.
Load Data for REFERENCE ONLY -- NOT A RECOMMENDATION – DO YOUR OWN DUE DILLIGENCE.
300gr WFNPB 1.651" OAL - LBT type - source unknown.
20.0gr H110.
Fed 155 (Mag)
New Top Brass (Scharch.com).
1,102 fps avg, 37 fps ES
310gr RNFPGC DC 1.605" OAL (top crimp grove) - LEE mold.
20.0gr H110.
Fed 155 (Mag)
New Top Brass (Scharch.com).
1,141 fps avg, 23 fps ES
325gr WLNGC 1.711" OAL - Beartooth Bullets.
22.0gr H110.
Fed 155 (Mag)
New Top Brass (Scharch.com).
1,182 fps avg, 13 fps ES (3 shots only)
Load Data for REFERENCE ONLY -- NOT A RECOMMENDATION – DO YOUR OWN DUE DILLIGENCE.
==================================================
The Hogue 500s worked great making my guns comfortable to shoot with the heavier loads. I have a problem with grips that are hard or narrow at the top (or both) -- recoil just hammers the bone at the base of my thumb -- the Hogue 500s pretty much solve this problem for me.
The 300s were not bad at all recoil wise, but were noticeable and the 325gr/1,180fps a bit more so. Certainly won’t shoot many of these.
============================================
Brian Pearce covered the M69 and appropriate load data in Dec 2014 (#293) issue of Handloader Magazine. If you have a M69, you should consider ordering a copy from Wolf Publications http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/index.cfm?magid=689 .
With the Hornady 240 XTP Brian listed 24.5gr H110 as Max. A max load of 21.5gr of A2400 was listed as max for both the 240gr Nos JHP and 250gr Keith.
Here’s a brief recap of the article excluding load tables.
Article addressed strength & durability w/long term use of .44 Mag level ammo – shot over 2,700 round while testing and discussed engineering features.
S&W Reengineered yoke to place enough supporting steel surrounding bbl threads to handle Magnum pressures and allow increased barrel shank diameter.
Due to location of bolt notches (chamber wall thickness at weakest point is .040” in 629 vs. .052 in M69) cylinder strength is more than adequate to handle .44 Mag pressures. Ball detent lockup is a plus and “aids chamber alignment and durability”.
All endurance package features previously/currently incorporated in 29/629s have been included in M69.
Brian quotes S&W “the L=frame has a strong durable frame and barrel built for continuous Magnum useage”. Further, S&W engineers subjected the M69 to endurance testing with full power .44 Mag ammo and passed with ease.
Per Brian “IT SHOULD BE EMPHASIZED, HOWEVER, THAT THESE GUNS ARE NOT DESIGNED FOR LOADS THAT EXCEED MAXIMUM SAAMI PRESSURE GUIDELINES FOR THE .44 MAGNUM, OR 36,000 PSI”.
Regarding recoil he said the smaller L-frame’s lower bore axis “translates into decreased muzzle lift, less felt recoil and quicker follow up shots”.
Balance of article is basically discussion of load data specific to the M69 with some other observations.
Showed a table comparing velocities M69 vs M629 with various factory loads (210gr thru 300gr). Also included a couple of load data tables covering bullets from 180 – 300gr.
================================================
The L Frame .44 mag is one of my favorites -- it just works for me.
Thought this might be of interest.
Paul
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