Power Pistol and leadbullets

[38SPL HV]

Alliant has some good reloading data with Power Pistol for 38 Spl, std and +P levels. I have tried them and liked them.

I asked Alliant why they don't list Power Pistol in 357 Mag with lead bullets. They said that there would be too much airspace in the case and more airspace runs the risk of having major problems with ignition of all powder at once. I heard this potential with Bullseye. One of the reasons I like Unique since it takes up more of the case. Power Pistol gives some good velocity in 38 Spl, but Alliant still refuses to specify lead loads for the 357 Mag for reason they indicated.

Power Pistol measures real nicely. Maybe I should reconsider it again. I don't find its flash excessive, but it barks loudly!

 

[patrickd]

I fail to see the difference between lead and jacketed bullets of equal weight when it comes to airspace within the case.

 

[38SPL HV]

Agreed!

But I tend to listen to the powder manufacturer. I hope a reloading manual comes out soon with 357 Mag loads with lead.

 

[Rule3]

There a many threads out there on PP and lead bullets.

The consensus seems to be this:

Not allowed to link to another web site,

"Single based or low nitro content powders seem to perform better, in general, with lead vs high nitro content powders."

^^I do not know how the above statement was arrived at.^^

PP has the "loud" report due to the nitro content,

 

[38SPL HV]

Thank you Rule3

 

[Rule3]

I use PP a lot in 9mm and 40 SW eithe FMJ or the coated lead bullets.

I would use it in 357 mag using the coated lead bullets as I see no real reason not to compared to a FMJ bullet, The "air space" thing I do not understand? other than most magnum loads do better with case capacity nearly full.

The high nitro content may cause more leading with a regular lead bullet I do not know??

The MSDS (template) for both Unique and PP give a range of 4-40% Nitro so Alliant is not gonna give away and secrets!

The other link for their MSDS is not working

http://www.alliantpowder.com/downloads/sds/Unique.pdf

 

[mtgianni]

I really like PP in the 40 and have never reloaded that caliber with jacketed.

 

[fredj338]

The airspace thing is kinda BS. The only real issue is dbl charging. PP will work for medium loads & LSWC. I just don't like the loud blast.

 

[Erich]

I have used Power Pistol with lead hardcasts for a long time, and have never, ever had an issue. And I mostly use it at factory-max data.

 

[slickracer]

Brian Pierce likes it, that's good enough for me!

 

[BLUEDOT37]

I asked Alliant... They said that there would be too much airspace in the case and more airspace runs the risk of having major problems with ignition of all powder at once.

Obviously the person at Alliant that told you that didn't know what he was talking about. Alliant's Reloader Guide, & Speer #14, list using Power Pistol (start 23grs.) in 500 Magnum cases, which is only 49% of it's case capacity.

The new edition of Handloader Magazine, #302, lists several 357 Mag loads with lead bullets & Power Pistol.

.

 

[rwsmith]

I've never......

I've experimented with tiny loads of Bullseye and something that impressed me was how consistently it light regardless of the position of the powder. It just doesn't take much to make it all go bang at one time. I've NEVER had a problem getting Bullseye to light under any circumstances.

I'm getting the feeling that any inquiry to a powder manufacturer is going to be the utmost in conservatism. And just because you get them on the phone or reply to an email doesn't mean they know what they are talking about.

 

[forestswin]

Agreed!

But I tend to listen to the powder manufacturer. I hope a reloading manual comes out soon with 357 Mag loads with lead.

Your answer may lie in the past - not the future

Alliant's newer load data manuals have some serious holes in them.

They tout their 2400 as legendary for its performance in magnum pistol loads, yet they only have a recipe for 158 grain cast lead using BE-86!

What's up with that? I believe you'll find that many think 2400 is the best powder for 357 magnum loads, especially cast lead. SO WHY DON'T THEY HAVE THE DATA?

here's a link to some Alliant older free manuals

Alliant Manuals

In Alliant's 2003 manual they do give Power Pistol data for lighter jacketed bullets, but not lead.
Which does make some sense in that Lyman's Cast bullet Handbook only give 357 lead data for 90 grain to 120 grain cast bullets too.

 

[38SPL HV]

Thank you forestwin for the input and link

 

[Nevada Ed]

A "Flash Ignition" is nothing to laugh at.

One reason rifle loads have a minimum powder loading........
and the same for any metallic case that can have powder at or
below the level of a primer when fired.

A elevated or downward muzzle will reduce the problem but can still create erratic pressures and different fps on loads.

The only time I use less than a 62% volume pistol load (Nosler) is with a 38 special 148 wc target loading.

 

[Rule3]

A "Flash Ignition" is nothing to laugh at.

One reason rifle loads have a minimum powder loading........
and the same for any metallic case that can have powder at or
below the level of a primer when fired.

A elevated or downward muzzle will reduce the problem but can still create erratic pressures and different fps on loads.

The only time I use less than a 62% volume pistol load (Nosler) is with a 38 special 148 wc target loading.

How would a downward muzzle help? Upward I understand

Some powders are not position sensitive .

 

[rockquarry]

It's apparent that many handloaders today are adverse to buying load manuals as there is free data available online. However, much of the best data still remains available only in paper handloading manuals and other printed sources, like HANDLOADER magazine. The information is well worth the cost.

 

[Erich]

Handloader is a great magazine.

 

[Nevada Ed]

How would a downward muzzle help? Upward I understand....


It reduces the surface area that may be ignited......
even though not against the primer............
another bad thing...............

it is still a LOT BETTER than a 100% surface volume area of power about to be touched off !!

I let most things slide but a sever reduced load is one of the things I try to prevent or at least give a heads up on.
Some powders work in reduced loads, imr 4759. Unique, Bullseye, A5744 etc. and then there are others that are just down right unstable.

 

[patrickd]

I've never seen a particular type of powder cause leading in a barrel. If you get leading using hard cast bullets you need to double check the size. .357 bullets will be more likely to leave lead being shot through a .357" bore. To stop the leading choose cast bullets sized .001" over the size of the bore and try to keep velocity to where it isn't an issue . .358" bullets at 1400 fps do not lead up my 586 or my GP100 at all.