Can someone show me where the safeties are on my dozens of revolvers? 
DAO with exterior safety?
- Thread starter vboy36
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Very helpful to me to hear from experienced and professional gun handlers. I got my concealed carry permit way back in 1992, Florida. Bought a SW640 and carry that, a lot, in an ankle holster. Then bought a SW4506, (1990's) beautiful gun, and traded that for a sw915 (genius!!). I am definitely keeping the SW915. The information I have received from this conversation and debate is extremely helpful: I found a SD9 on line for $120. less than was originally offered; realized the value of the SW915 and have started handling it again (unloaded) and will get to the range and practice with it and the sw640. I do like the safety options on the 915, including the mag safety (yes, the ccp officer, Tampa Police back in 1992 showed me the way to bypass the mag safety on my 4506) in fact the lack of a mag safety on the SD gets me back to my original reason of avoiding guns without such. I like the decocking lever. The DA/SA, practice, practice, practice. The play in the SA position is more than I remembered and will reduce the accidental discharge concern. The DA pull on my 640 is much heavier than the SD and I am very comfortable with the revolver not having a safety. I really respect and appreciate ALL of your opinions and have learned a great deal from the short time on this forum.
Be Safe
BH
Be Safe
BH
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kbm6893
Member
Can someone show me where the safeties are on my dozens of revolvers?
Do your revolvers have 6 pound triggers? Would you carry your revolver with the hammer back? That's a better comparison between a striker fired gun with no safety and a revolver.
Always carry DAO Centennial revolvers, and DAO is what the OP asked about.
Never carried a revolver with a hammer back, wasn't NYPD.
And always declares his opinions as irrefutable fact.
kbm6893
Member
Always carry DAO Centennial revolvers, and DAO is what the OP asked about.
Never carried a revolver with a hammer back, wasn't NYPD.
Your centennial has about a 10 pound trigger. The sd9 does not. Apples and oranges. And I know you weren't NYPD. You were sleeping in the firehouse when they were working.
And the the OP asked about a DAO SD9. That doesn't exist. A true DAO gun like the 5946 is certainly not like an SD9. While I don't think a DAO weapon NEEDS a safety, they sure aren't a liability.
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Your centennial has about a 10 pound trigger. The sd9 does not. Apples and oranges. And I know you weren't NYPD. You were sleeping in the firehouse when they were working.
OK, you win.
Arik, as usual, sums it all up perfectly.
kbm6893
Member
Take is easy ladder. Just some friendly rivalries. Did you see the last brawl between the cops and rubber men at the NYPD/FDNY football game? You guys lost the game and some beatings were handed down on both sides!
kbm6893
Member
Well, looks like B1812 has decided to stick with the 915 and learn to master the TDA manual of arms. Smart choice. The 915 is a WAY better firearm than the SD9, and learning to get used to the DA/SA is not hard at all, and certainly won't be noticed if God forbid he ever has to use his weapon. But B1812, did I read you correctly when you said you sold your 4506 to buy your 915? I hope you walked away with some nice cash on that one after buying the 915. The 4506 is a much more sought after and expensive weapon.
B1812 also sees the difference between a DAO firearm like his 640 and the striker fired light trigger on the SD9. Some here don't. They'll just continue to chant "my safety is between my ears".
On another forum, there was this guy saying the same thing. Said safeties are for people afraid of guns and they would get you killed. Said he carries his Beretta PX4 Storm compact with the safety off and hammer back, and it was perfectly safe, since as long as he didn't touch the trigger, it was no different than a Glock.
If you choose to carry a gun without a safety, then that is your choice. But stop with the "safeties will get you killed" and "my safety is between my ears". This is a forum of gun enthusiasts, not gun experts. Some people on this forum and others have very little trigger time and experience. Many were born after 1985 when the Glock came on the scene, and they have been brought up with the notion that safeties are not only bad, but are dangerous.
B1812 also sees the difference between a DAO firearm like his 640 and the striker fired light trigger on the SD9. Some here don't. They'll just continue to chant "my safety is between my ears".
On another forum, there was this guy saying the same thing. Said safeties are for people afraid of guns and they would get you killed. Said he carries his Beretta PX4 Storm compact with the safety off and hammer back, and it was perfectly safe, since as long as he didn't touch the trigger, it was no different than a Glock.
If you choose to carry a gun without a safety, then that is your choice. But stop with the "safeties will get you killed" and "my safety is between my ears". This is a forum of gun enthusiasts, not gun experts. Some people on this forum and others have very little trigger time and experience. Many were born after 1985 when the Glock came on the scene, and they have been brought up with the notion that safeties are not only bad, but are dangerous.
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If I were LEO or open carried on a belt as part of my job, I would probably choose my Beretta 92FS (DA/SA with hammer-drop safety) and I would carry it with safety on and train my draw to flick the safety off during my grab. Reason being is that if someone were to get it from my holster, there is a better chance of delay before the gun snatcher could make it work giving me time for an alternate plan.
Since I'm not a LEO and do not open carry, when I do conceal carry, I have my J-Frame revolver (no safety as we all know) ready to go in a pocket.
I'm probably paranoid about my "LEO what if" scenario of someone grabbing my exposed sidearm.
Since I'm not a LEO and do not open carry, when I do conceal carry, I have my J-Frame revolver (no safety as we all know) ready to go in a pocket.
I'm probably paranoid about my "LEO what if" scenario of someone grabbing my exposed sidearm.
When I joined this group I had about 70 years of long gun experience and had only dealt with a pistol when I "carried" one in the Navy.
When I joined this group I didn't know what "DAO" meant.
After suffering through this thread, I don't care what "DAO" means.
When I joined this group I didn't know what "DAO" meant.
After suffering through this thread, I don't care what "DAO" means.
DAO.... DAO.... Daylight come and me wan' go home...
There are both pros and cons to having a manual safety and although I understand why someone would choose one, I have seen too many failures to get manual safeties disengaged in ECQ Force on Force to choose or recommend one on a defense handgun. Massad Ayoob and others have documented numerous cases of such failures in actual defense scenarios over the years. He's also documented cases where a manual safety saved lives by preventing firing after a disarm(all involving LEO's AFAIK who open carry). Like almost everything, there are trade-offs, so you have to choose accordingly in context for your specific needs.
Civilian defense encounters generally unfold very suddenly and occur at extremely close distances. You may be very adept at disengaging the safety at the range or in competition, but that is very different from having to do it while engaging and accessing your weapon against an armed(gun, knife, bludgeon etc.) assailant or even multiple unarmed attackers at 0-5 feet. You may have to draw while moving, while using unarmed defensive skills, shootone handed with a less than ideal grip and all of this tends to get messy and chaotic with manual dexterity being in very short supply.
Instead of considering a manual safety a safeguard during a disarm, getting some quality weapon retention, integrated unarmed ECQ training would be a better bet. I don't open carry like an LEO and advise against it, so disarm attempts are likely only when weapon is drawn and although it possibly could be an advantage in certain scenarios, I consider it more of a liability than asset.
There was a mention on this thread about Rifles/Shotguns having safeties and no one having issues with them having one. A long gun and a handgun are two very different tools. There is a reason we don't see DA/SA or DAO rifles and shotguns, but do handguns. I view handguns as reactive defense tools designed to be portable, carried and brought into action quickly. A long gun is a proactive defense tool intended for long range precision and more suited to combat type uses and hunting rather than being practical for most civilian personal defense uses.
You have to find a balance between safety and effectiveness. A manual safety provides an additional safety measure against mistakes leading to unintentional discharges, but it also compromises effective use since you can also make a mistake and fail to get safety disengaged. I don't see anyone saying an enclosed hammer DAO revolver needs a manual safety nor should a semi-automatic with a comparably heavy trigger pull.
Civilian defense encounters generally unfold very suddenly and occur at extremely close distances. You may be very adept at disengaging the safety at the range or in competition, but that is very different from having to do it while engaging and accessing your weapon against an armed(gun, knife, bludgeon etc.) assailant or even multiple unarmed attackers at 0-5 feet. You may have to draw while moving, while using unarmed defensive skills, shootone handed with a less than ideal grip and all of this tends to get messy and chaotic with manual dexterity being in very short supply.
Instead of considering a manual safety a safeguard during a disarm, getting some quality weapon retention, integrated unarmed ECQ training would be a better bet. I don't open carry like an LEO and advise against it, so disarm attempts are likely only when weapon is drawn and although it possibly could be an advantage in certain scenarios, I consider it more of a liability than asset.
There was a mention on this thread about Rifles/Shotguns having safeties and no one having issues with them having one. A long gun and a handgun are two very different tools. There is a reason we don't see DA/SA or DAO rifles and shotguns, but do handguns. I view handguns as reactive defense tools designed to be portable, carried and brought into action quickly. A long gun is a proactive defense tool intended for long range precision and more suited to combat type uses and hunting rather than being practical for most civilian personal defense uses.
You have to find a balance between safety and effectiveness. A manual safety provides an additional safety measure against mistakes leading to unintentional discharges, but it also compromises effective use since you can also make a mistake and fail to get safety disengaged. I don't see anyone saying an enclosed hammer DAO revolver needs a manual safety nor should a semi-automatic with a comparably heavy trigger pull.
BUFF
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
I have been in armed encounters. I have fired my weapon for real stakes. It is like driving a car, you learn correct methods, you practice those correct methods, it becomes ingrained.
In my encounters, I never made a conscious decision to reach under my suitcoat, unsnap my holster, draw the weapon, put my finger on the trigger or thumb off the safety. Training and practice made that part almost automatic, like moving your foot from the gas to the brake. Being practiced (properly) on the basics lets you use your mind to evaluate elements of the situation, such as, do I shoot now? Who do I shoot first? What is behind them? My mind recognized it was time to shoot, my eyes picked a spot on the fellow's shirt, the front sight covered that spot, I stared at that front sight and I waited for my gun to discharge. Training and practice took care of the mechanics, my brain was free to deal with the tactics.
If people you see in classes are forgetting the disengage their safety, their instruction is inadequate and they haven't had enough practice.
As I said in my first post in this thread, safety, no safety, it's your choice. A mechanical safety won't eliminate accidents, you pull the trigger on a loaded gun, that gun had better discharge. Being disarmed of your handgun can happen. People get killed with their own guns every year, by someone who took it away from them. That is why most police agencies require their officers to use holsters with multiple retention devices to prevent release the gun from the holster by the unwanted, and teach weapon retention, and to wear body armor that will stop the round the officers use.
I like a thumb safety. It's one more layer of protection that I hope I will never have to depend on.
My department hasn't suffered a case of Glock Leg, but we have had multiple unintended discharges on the range and in the cleaning shed. Guess what sort of guns they were?
In my encounters, I never made a conscious decision to reach under my suitcoat, unsnap my holster, draw the weapon, put my finger on the trigger or thumb off the safety. Training and practice made that part almost automatic, like moving your foot from the gas to the brake. Being practiced (properly) on the basics lets you use your mind to evaluate elements of the situation, such as, do I shoot now? Who do I shoot first? What is behind them? My mind recognized it was time to shoot, my eyes picked a spot on the fellow's shirt, the front sight covered that spot, I stared at that front sight and I waited for my gun to discharge. Training and practice took care of the mechanics, my brain was free to deal with the tactics.
If people you see in classes are forgetting the disengage their safety, their instruction is inadequate and they haven't had enough practice.
As I said in my first post in this thread, safety, no safety, it's your choice. A mechanical safety won't eliminate accidents, you pull the trigger on a loaded gun, that gun had better discharge. Being disarmed of your handgun can happen. People get killed with their own guns every year, by someone who took it away from them. That is why most police agencies require their officers to use holsters with multiple retention devices to prevent release the gun from the holster by the unwanted, and teach weapon retention, and to wear body armor that will stop the round the officers use.
I like a thumb safety. It's one more layer of protection that I hope I will never have to depend on.
My department hasn't suffered a case of Glock Leg, but we have had multiple unintended discharges on the range and in the cleaning shed. Guess what sort of guns they were?
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It's more a matter of actually physically failing to get the safety(safeties) disengaged or failing to get it disengaged quick enough within the compressed time frame requirements rather than one of simply forgetting. An individual can train and drill all they want at the range, but it simply doesn't simulate actual realistic conditions very well. The reality and context is just too different. The same mostly applies to Military and Law Enforcement experience. I'm referencing civilian ECQ counter-ambush type personal defense situations. There often seems to always be an assumption of time, distance and a shoot-out. That's just not very likely and very few people train realistically.
Gabe Suarez on failing to disengage thumb safety... "My focus is not to disparage the 1911, but I have personally seen this many times in force on force....with guys who have years and years with the 1911. When I ask them about it, the answer is "This never happens on the range". Exactly.
Me...I like simple. If I have to grip the gun a certain way or disengage a safety before firing, I am not interested in that gun."
Gabe Suarez on failing to disengage thumb safety... "My focus is not to disparage the 1911, but I have personally seen this many times in force on force....with guys who have years and years with the 1911. When I ask them about it, the answer is "This never happens on the range". Exactly.
Me...I like simple. If I have to grip the gun a certain way or disengage a safety before firing, I am not interested in that gun."
BUFF
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
"Civilian defense encounters generally unfold very suddenly and occur at extremely close distances. You may be very adept at disengaging the safety at the range or in competition, but that is very different from having to do it while engaging and accessing your weapon against an armed(gun, knife, bludgeon etc.) assailant or even multiple unarmed attackers at 0-5 feet. You may have to draw while moving, while using unarmed defensive skills, shootone handed with a less than ideal grip and all of this tends to get messy and chaotic with manual dexterity being in very short supply."
The above pretty well sums up most law enforcement armed encounters, as well. You generally don't get to plan your gunfight.
Time is not a factor in using a thumb safety. It takes much, much longer to draw and point your handgun than it does to work the safety. You work the safety during your draw stroke. It won't slow you down at all, IF YOU HAVE BEEN ADEQUATELY TRAINED AND YOU HAVE ADEQUATELY PRACTICED, such that the safety is an automatic part of your response, like looking at your front sight
Next you are going to tell me you can't use your sights in a gun fight, too, it's too complicated, and there isn't enough time...
Like I said, learning to use a thumb safety is based on proper training and proper practice to make those trained responses automatic. People failing to disengage the thumb safety of a 1911 or a Hi Power or similar weapon have either had insufficient or inadequate instruction or insufficient and inadequate practice. It's like the clutch pedal in a stick shift car, you learn to drive it, you drive it a lot and you soon work that clutch without thinking about it.
Thumb safeties aren't rocket science. Many firearms trainers in and out of law enforcement have to gear their training to the lowest common denominators in their classes. A thumb safety is one more thing to learn, if a person isn't willing to learn it and make it an automatic part of their draw stroke, that is certainly their choice. If they don't, then they are probably better off with a simpler, less complicated weapon. I prefer to have the extra layer of safety that a thumb safety gives me.
The KISS principal is not a universal rule. Always remember the second S.
The above pretty well sums up most law enforcement armed encounters, as well. You generally don't get to plan your gunfight.
Time is not a factor in using a thumb safety. It takes much, much longer to draw and point your handgun than it does to work the safety. You work the safety during your draw stroke. It won't slow you down at all, IF YOU HAVE BEEN ADEQUATELY TRAINED AND YOU HAVE ADEQUATELY PRACTICED, such that the safety is an automatic part of your response, like looking at your front sight
Next you are going to tell me you can't use your sights in a gun fight, too, it's too complicated, and there isn't enough time...
Like I said, learning to use a thumb safety is based on proper training and proper practice to make those trained responses automatic. People failing to disengage the thumb safety of a 1911 or a Hi Power or similar weapon have either had insufficient or inadequate instruction or insufficient and inadequate practice. It's like the clutch pedal in a stick shift car, you learn to drive it, you drive it a lot and you soon work that clutch without thinking about it.
Thumb safeties aren't rocket science. Many firearms trainers in and out of law enforcement have to gear their training to the lowest common denominators in their classes. A thumb safety is one more thing to learn, if a person isn't willing to learn it and make it an automatic part of their draw stroke, that is certainly their choice. If they don't, then they are probably better off with a simpler, less complicated weapon. I prefer to have the extra layer of safety that a thumb safety gives me.
The KISS principal is not a universal rule. Always remember the second S.
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Sidnne
Member
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This guy gets it.
There was an article I was reading a while back, and I wish I had it bookmarked now, about things people don't often take into account regarding self-defense situations. The author of the article was some type of law enforcement or military, I don't recall which, and in the article he used a lot of statistics and highlighted many cases involving other law enforcement and military, who are highly trained.
One of the things he discussed was that in the vast majority (something like over 80%) of self defense situations, the defender ends up firing their handgun with only one hand. In light of that, he suggests carrying a handgun/caliber that you can easily manage with one hand.
He shared cases from highly trained military and law enforcement who had to use their weapons in self-defense. One was a police officer who drew his weapon and accidentally hit his mag release. A second police officer drew his weapon, disengaged his safety, but then accidentally re-engaged the safety. Another case was of an army ranger who got into a combat situation, but in spite of all his training, he panicked and couldn't remember what to do.
The point is, if you are attacked, you're not going to see it coming and you're not going to have time to prepare. It will be sudden and it will be in your face. You can have all the training and practice in the world, but once panic sets in, all of that training goes out the window. If that happens to highly trained military and law enforcement, then it will be even more true for the average citizen. I know everybody wants to think they are a ninja, but reality is different from fantasy.
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