What is it with Blue Dot?

[rwsmith]

They can't explain or predict it.....

The problem is that they can't explain or predict why its pressure spikes under certain loads therefore it's best to let the buyer know what to do rather than risk accidents.

 

[BB57]

I understand what you mean Jim.I started reloading in '78(1978...not 1878 I know I'm old but not that much!!!)and had just recently tried one of the Dot family(Red Dot since Bullseye had not been available for quite a while during the Great Powder Darkness)and I really liked it's performance.I remembered reading lots of articles(before the web was even born)about what a good performance Blue Dot would give for a relatively small amount used.
I guess I only want to verify what is all the bugaboo about Blue Dot.Like you said,in the manuals,it sure looks promising.

I dusted off some old reloading manuals and went back to Red Dot for several pistol loads during the recent unpleasantness because I could still find Red Dot.

I'm also a Bullseye and Unique fan and don't generally regard these older powders as "flaming dirt". That in and of itself is I think an artifact of those powders working really well with cast bullets, where the lube causes the smoke, not the powder.

 

[BB57]

The problem is that they can't explain or predict why its pressure spikes under certain loads therefore it's best to let the buyer know what to do rather than risk accidents.

Blue Dot wasn't developed and released until 1972, and not surprisingly I have a 1979 re-print of the Hornady second edition , which was first published in 1971 so Blue Dot isn't included at all.

However in the 1981 third edition, it is listed for the .357 Magnum, including 125 grain bullets.

I'm not sure when it disappeared from the .357 Mag data as I didn't bother with a new edition until the 6th edition in 2003. However, I also didn't fret over it as Hornady, among others, tends to feature newer powders in the newer editions if they show promise so some of the older data duplicated in older editions is often dropped through no fault of the data or load.

----

With that said, I'd certainly advise following a warning from Alliant if they discourage it's use in an application.

More to the point however, I'm amazed at the percentage of hand loaders who do not have a chronograph and don't chronograph their loads and have no idea of the variation in velocity (and thus pressure (that may be occurring).

I've found a several loads over the years where the powder would perform very well across most of a charge weight ladder, but then show sharply increasing standard deviation in velocity at the high or low ends of the range.

The problem of pressure spikes is much more common at low charge weights in large volume cases than it is in cartridges with higher load density. Consistent with that I've encountered a few published loads where the average velocity would also increase over a 10 shot sample which would also have a very large SD, indicating incipient pressure spikes.

In that regard, given what we all spend on firearms, reloading equipment, and reloading components, a one time cost of $100-$150 for a chronograph is cheap quality assurance.

 

[Snapping Twig]

Only powder I ever threw out, this was back in the late 80's.

Used it for 44, worked my way up and found it to be erratic when I got to the upper end.

Cold weather affects it.

No sir, I won't use it.

 

[rwsmith]

It took one trip to the range......

I first tried Accurate #9 back in the mid 90's, mainly because they had a great price point on it and my loading books had data with it in 357 and 44. And once I tried it out I really liked it. It's a fine grain spherical and meters well in my old Lyman 55 measure. Plus, it has flash suppressant in it so it doesn't make the big flaming balls of fire like 296/H-110 or 2400 or even Blue Dot. The biggest problem I have with Western's powders now is that I have to drive close to a 150 miles round trip to pick up any locally. So I order it online.

It took one trip to the range to sell me on Accurate Powders. Someone recommended a light 9mm load to me and I got some #7 and the results and impressions were GREAT!

 

[jimmyj]

I have two cans of "Blue Dot" un-opened. I would like to load 357 magnum load using a 158 grain cast bullet for a "K" frame. Just a good accurate load without high pressure. Opinions ?

 

[Nevada Ed]

The make up of Blue Dot powder is not the best for cold weather loads..........at 35 degrees or lower with

12 Ga. shotgun loads with steel pellet data (duck hunting) or
pistol loads in very cold weather.

It just burns dirty and has ....HIGH ES spreads......, even with mag primers, in cold weather.


No need to use it in the 357 magnum with the 125gr jacket bullets....
SR 4756, 800-x, HS-6 and 2400 powders will do as good or better in the fps department in my 6" barrels.
I pushed Unique to 1355fps but it is a lot more accurate with the light 125gr with only 8.0grs at 1285fps
or 8.0grs of CFE Pistol powder if you have any.

Plus the 140gr XTP is a lot better bullet in a 357 than the 125 or 110gr will ever be for general shooting at
1050 to 1366 fps with Blue Dot powder.
The 158gr XTP can reach 1270fps with BD in my 686 6" with accuracy back in 2008.

Sorry I don't do 41 cal.

 

[TAROMAN]

I have two cans of "Blue Dot" un-opened. I would like to load 357 magnum load using a 158 grain cast bullet for a "K" frame. Just a good accurate load without high pressure. Opinions ?

As I stated below, only tried BD in 44 Magnum and 357 Sig.
Checking my Lyman Cast Handbook:

158 Blue Dot 8.2 888 FPS
Remarks: sugg. start load; 11,600 cup
158 Blue Dot 10.9 1316 FPS
Remarks: max load; 39,200 cup

I would start at maybe 9 grains and work up.

Guess I need to it a try, too. I like 357 at 1050 to 1100.
Just might be a sweet spot in there somewhere.
Won't know if you never try!

 

[Rule3]

Maybe the stuff is good in shotguns I don't know?

It is OK in full loads of 357 Mag and 158 gr bullets. Just think there are better options.

 

[Dave Workman]

For what it's worth, I've been reloading probably as long as anybody here and I have never used BD.
I stick with 2400 or H110 exclusively. Both propellants have proven to be very consistent. Now, use a standard primer with 2400 and a magnum primer with H110.

 

[boatbum101]

I used 10grs with the Lyman 358429 170gr in 357 mag & 12grs with the 410459 in 41 mag . Worked OK , but 2400 gives me better results as does H110 / W296 . Picked up some AA#9 & VVN-110 to see if I get better results . Jury's still out on them .

 

[Davinman]

i use blue dot in 357mag loads w/158gr cast bullets, 9.5 gr blue dot & a std primer. shoots terrific for me, its a good mid range magnum load, not too punishing. i have been loading this combo for many years with no problem.

 

[SMSgt]

The last time I used Blue Dot was back in the late '80s-early'90s. I used it in my .41 Mag in Alaska at temps of -25 to -30 and never experienced any problems.

Don't know that I'd use it today; something triggered the warning, and it is not worth the risk. I felt it burned cleanly in my Blackhawk and performed fine.

 

[Nevada Ed]

jimmyj post #26;

Generally any powder like Unique or faster burning is what I use
for light to medium target loads in a 6" K frame.

However in my 686 6" L frame I did try a few light charges of BD.
7.0grs of Blue Dot in a short 38 special case did around 890 fps.
7.5grs in a long 357 case, before my chrony, was fair in accuracy.

5.0gr of Bullseye or w231 did as well or better, with less powder.

Safe loading.

 

[rwsmith]

No reason why not....

I have two cans of "Blue Dot" un-opened. I would like to load 357 magnum load using a 158 grain cast bullet for a "K" frame. Just a good accurate load without high pressure. Opinions ?

There's nothing published against it. Only the usual caveats about using a lot of heavy magnum loads in 'K' frames with any powder/bullet combination.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

...you straighten me out with Accurate#9.

AA#9 is the only powder I've ever had a problem with.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/289304-aa-9-squibs-45-colt-cases.html

http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/403474-handloader-article-aa-9-wlp.html

.

 

[muddocktor]

I've always used CCI 350 or Fed Lg Pistol mag primers in my 44 loads. Since 44 is the only pistol cartridge I load for that uses large pistol primers, I'm just not going to keep both varieties in stock at the house. And using mag pistol primers (large or small), I've never had any problems with A #9 lighting off correctly in 44 or 357 Mag.

 

[rwsmith]

The words not in....

I dusted off some old reloading manuals and went back to Red Dot for several pistol loads during the recent unpleasantness because I could still find Red Dot.

I'm also a Bullseye and Unique fan and don't generally regard these older powders as "flaming dirt". That in and of itself is I think an artifact of those powders working really well with cast bullets, where the lube causes the smoke, not the powder.

First time I went to the range with lubed cast bullets it was like, 'This is awful'. Everybody had to wait for the smoke to clear before resuming shooting. I made a few adjustments with powders but only improved it slightly.

My first experience using the same powders but with coated bullets was having only a little smoke from the powder and very little from the lube. It just smelled a little different.

Yeah, I think a lot of smoke from the lube has been attributed to powder.

 

[Nevada Ed]

My first try with a lead 158gr swc in my 686 6" with a light load
of HS-6 was the WORST load I have ever shot in all my reloading.

I thought I had used fff black powder by mistake !!
There was a large cloud of white/gray smoke that surrounded the area,
however it was a nice tight group at around 1100fps.

Things cleaned up with Hornady XTP bullets.

 

[fredj338]

Yeah, I think a lot of smoke from the lube has been attributed to powder.

Diff powders do affect the amount of smoke with lubed lead. The bullet lube also has a lot to do with. BE & TG seem to produce a lot of smoke with most bullet lubes. So you can play with powders & diff lubes, but there will always be smoke with lubed bullets.