Obviously you somehow missed the part about RELATIVE spring fatigue when continuously compressed vs. cycled on a weekly basis... I would be somewhat optimistic about your "learning" if you attempt to factually explain the basis of your paper clip/magazine spring failure analogy -- which you responded with. Give it a try, otherwise it will just remain a baseless conjecture.
Cleaning tarnished ammo
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Obviously you somehow missed the part about RELATIVE spring fatigue when continuously compressed vs. cycled on a weekly basis... I would be somewhat optimistic about your "learning" if you attempt to factually explain the basis of your paper clip/magazine spring failure analogy -- which you responded with. Give it a try, otherwise it will just remain a baseless conjecture.
There is a limit to how clear things can be made; I realize that I just don't have the ability to make things clear so that everybody can understand it. Carry on with your paper clip/ magazine spring failure analogy. LOL.
Arik
Member
Quality (lack of crystal lattice imperfections) and type of steel and treatment is important for maximum life; it costs more to get higher quality metal end-product with fewer defects.
Let me know which pistol manufacturer will assure you that fully loaded pistol magazines should be reliable for decades. Have you not read my quoted statement from a pistol spring manufacturer who states (post #53, highlighted) that fully compressed magazine spring experiences more fatigue than magazine spring that's cycled on a weekly basis?
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Arik
Member
First off, you're looking for a definitive answer...which doesn't exist.
Second, a spring company telling you to change spring often if left loaded. Well ....yeah. if they told you their springs are good for 20 years how much business will the have? Also, they can't make you guarantees otherwise if one doesn't last they'll be getting complaints.
Third, HK makes some of the best mags. They cost roughly $40 or less, lettuce or not.
Fourth. Despite the fact that the ONE company tells you to change often there are hundreds of examples of people leaving mags loaded for decades. Not one or two unusual cases but hundreds. Which shows that mag springs can last much much longer than "often". Like I said, I have many mags that were formally used by militaries in different conflict areas. They have dings, dents, rust, some have holes. And they ALL still work. How long will they work for? I don't know but they have not shown signs of problems. Not one. Maybe they have another 1000 rounds in them, maybe another million. No one will ever know but after decades of hard use they are still working like new
What you're asking is the equivalent of how long will my gun/car/lawn mower/TV/radio last. No one can tell you for certain
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Second, a spring company telling you to change spring often if left loaded. Well ....yeah. if they told you their springs are good for 20 years how much business will the have? Also, they can't make you guarantees otherwise if one doesn't last they'll be getting complaints.
Third, HK makes some of the best mags. They cost roughly $40 or less, lettuce or not.
Fourth. Despite the fact that the ONE company tells you to change often there are hundreds of examples of people leaving mags loaded for decades. Not one or two unusual cases but hundreds. Which shows that mag springs can last much much longer than "often". Like I said, I have many mags that were formally used by militaries in different conflict areas. They have dings, dents, rust, some have holes. And they ALL still work. How long will they work for? I don't know but they have not shown signs of problems. Not one. Maybe they have another 1000 rounds in them, maybe another million. No one will ever know but after decades of hard use they are still working like new
What you're asking is the equivalent of how long will my gun/car/lawn mower/TV/radio last. No one can tell you for certain
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First off, you have been making a definitive statement that's false; namely that only cycling the mag springs "kills" them, not static compression. You don't understand what mechanical creep is, obviously.
Obviously you have not read and understood the relevant part of my post #53 -- even when highlighted. Sure, if one's life depends on a magazine spring functioning there obviously should be very little doubt that it's up to task.
Lettuce has its purpose I suppose, but has no relevance to magazine spring design, H&K or whatever.
The laws of physics are the same for all spring manufacturing companies and so is the spring wear mechanism -- which includes static compression, of course.
That's like saying that cigarette smoking doesn't cause cancer because there are 90 year-olds who have smoked since they were teenagers.
I am asking nothing, but do reject your baseless opinion that fully loaded mag springs do not fail because of static compression; in fact, static compression causes MORE spring fatigue than weekly magazine cycling (read post #53 again).
Arik
Member
OK fine, don't load the mag. Only way to make sure it's 100%. Unless you never tested it and it turns out to be faulty. But then if you load it and it is good then it's no longer 100%
Load them, don't load them, load them only when immediately needed.... whatever. Use a single shot!
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Load them, don't load them, load them only when immediately needed.... whatever. Use a single shot!
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
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I own in excess of 100 magazines, some older than me. My father owned twice that, some his age. Some 1911 magazines that I recently used had been loaded in excess of 30 years, reloaded them and fired them again. I recently fired some Glock magazines that had been loaded in excess of 20 years, reloaded them and fired them again. I fired a couple P7 mags last week that had been loaded since 1986, reloaded them and fired them again. I have seen hundreds of magazines on the deck, most in use for at least 20 years. Neither I nor my father ever replaced a magazine spring. Bent lips, broken followers, dented sides, broken floor plates, all yes. Spring? Never.
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Although 100% reliability is not within the realm of man-made things -- I'll take 99.999% by not over-fatiguing the spring. Here we agree -- less stress on the spring means less fatigue means higher reliability. But, hey, if 10% reliability in self-defense is adequate for you -- then use 15 year old mags!
Arik
Member
I assure you that reliability of pistol magazines that have been kept continuously loaded to maximum capacity for 15 years is quite low; 10% is just a "big ball park" guess. If you believe it's 99%, then, obviously, mechanical creep doesn't exist in your universe. In any event, the point was and is that static compression is a significant factor in determining useful life and thus reliability of magazine springs -- contrary to your and some others' claims who posted here, and as pistol spring manufacturers well know. However, I'll give you credit for this: at least you did not draw an analogy to bending a paper clip!
I thought it might be helpful for everybody to read Wolff's entire response on their FAQ page to the mag spring question instead of a statement taken out of context. . . .
"How often should I change magazine spring? Should I unload my magazines, rotate magazines, load with fewer than the maximum rounds?
Magazine springs in semi-auto pistols are one of the most critical springs and are the subject of much debate and concern. Magazines which are kept fully loaded for long periods of time, such as in law enforcement and personal/home defense applications, will generally be subject to more fatigue than the weekend shooter's magazine springs in which the magazines are loaded up only when shooting.
Magazine design and capacity also affect the longevity of the spring. In many older pistol designs, maximum capacity was not the always the goal such as with the 7 round 1911 Colt magazines will last for years fully loaded. There was room for more spring material in these guns which reduces overall stress and increases the usable life of the spring.
More recently higher capacity magazine have become popular. These are designed to hold more rounds with less spring material often in the same space. This puts more stress on the spring and will cause it to fatigue at a faster rate. Unloading these magazines a round or two will help the life of the spring. Rotating fully loaded magazines will also help the problem somewhat but it is not always practical.
In applications where the magazine must be kept loaded at all times, a high quality magazine spring such as Wolff extra power magazine springs, will provide maximum life. Regular replacement of magazine springs will provide the best defense against failure from weak magazine springs. Regular shooting of the pistol is the best way to be sure the springs are still functioning reliably."
Wolff FAQ
Nothing was taken out of context; however, only the relevant portion was quoted which is clearly contrary to your and some others' false notions that static compression over substantial periods of time doesn't shorten useful life of magazine springs. You evidently fail to understand the spring failure mechanism by making a baseless and irrelevant analogy to repeatedly bending a paper clip.
I am still waiting for you to factually attempt to explain how the failure of a paper clip that is repeatedly bent is relevant to failure of magazine springs that are statically compressed....
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Are you sure you are pretty sure? What part of Wolff Co. quote has anything to do with your irrelevant and baseless paper clip analogy?
Preventative medicine.....
Would it be worthwhile to wax new ammo if you knew it was going to be around long enough to tarnish before being replaced? I'm thinking expensive defensive ammo might well be worth it. What wax would you use?
Would it be worthwhile to wax new ammo if you knew it was going to be around long enough to tarnish before being replaced? I'm thinking expensive defensive ammo might well be worth it. What wax would you use?
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