Winchester Model 12 16 gauge

[rchall]

Could anyone here give me an idea of a fair price to pay for a Winchester Model 12 16 gauge shotgun? Field grade with 30" solid rib barrel and 2 3/4" chamber. Early 40's gun. Good condition but needs a new buttplate or pad to make it look right. Thanks!

 

[H Richard]

I saw one sell in an auction Saturday, and it brought $375, but the condition was just so-so. Very little bluing left, but locked up solid.

 

[da gimp]

the solid rib barrels are the most desirable, then vent ribs with plain barrels the least desirable. Skeet & imp. cylinder chokes are most desirable with mod & full chokes being the most common. If it is a modified barrel or more open.. it ought to be a humdinger of a pheasant gun.. though some people like the full choked guns for both pheasant & long range dove shooting.

 

[Pig Hunter]

Just got a plain barrel full choke, field gun. They were asking $700 for it.

 

[Eddie Southgate]

Just got a plain barrel full choke, field gun. They were asking $700 for it.

I have a field grade M12 16 ga made in 1913 that is tight but has that well worn but well cared for look that I dearly love in a vintage shotgun . Cost me $ 325.00 5 years ago . I would not pay much more than that unless it was near mint. There are a lot of M12 16's on the market and $700 for a field grade is way too high.

Eddie

 

[HARDWARE]

You're gonna need that shotgun.

Here's my 1947 field grade.

 

[HARDWARE]

 

[Drm50]

In my neck of the woods M-12s in 12&16g field grade in good
condition are $350 average. 20g are at least $100-150 more.
28g still off the charts. The market for anything less that mint
or NIB collectors guns is limited. The new generation would rather have a space gun type or para military style shotgun. Last
year I was at a auction, nice 16g m12 came up and went for
$365, the next gun up was a Moss 500?/ camo- brought $450.
Us old farts that loved these guns are getting thin, so M12 is a
classic that is actually coming down in price. Some times I think
it is time to turn in my spurs, when a Moss sells higher than a
Win 12, the pump shotgun that every other pump was judged by.

 

[model70hunter]

I bought a M-12 in 16 gauge in a STL LGS about 4 years ago. It was around $300 plus or minus. It is very clean but a full choke plain bbl. Again, very nice and solid.

At that same LGS I bought 2 M-12's in 12 gauge. Both plain bbl's. One was a 1927 30" full and the other was a late 40's 3". I gave $225 for the 1927 and $250 for the 3". The 3" had a small crack that was repaired and the 2 3/4" had bad wood and no blue left but was mechanically perfect. I found an old Sile NIB replacement walnut wood and blued the gun. Sharp old gun. I know it is now not original but all the original had been worn off years ago, I found a 12 gauge 1918 riot front half at a small gun show and fit it to the gun for night duty.

I have owned quite a few in 16 gauge, up until maybe 7 or so years ago the 16 was really cheap.

 

[2152hq]

They pretty much go begging for owners unless they're a riot configuration. Then everyone wants it. Many fine game guns are simply cut down to make them sell,,and they do sell well and for good profits for the work involved.

Unappreciated or just not up with the times,,what ever the issue is the M12 and the rest of the classic pumps and autos are just not good sellers. You can find a lot of fine examples for very good prices in that bunch. But don't expect to squirrel them away and make a million bucks. Just enjoy them while you can. It's a hobby after all.
That's why my Marlin 43T, Stevens 200 pump and 520, Rem 10T, Win 42, FNA5 and Sportsman 48 see a lot of range time. Could care less about values at this point. I just like 'em.

 

[Eddie Southgate]

I got one of each

 

[BlackAgnes]

I recall that most of these old 16 gauge 12s had 2 9/16" chambers, vs. the 2 3/4" seen today. I know that they can easily be opened up to fire modern shells--there may be some pressure issues when firing 2 3/4" shells in unmodified guns.

 

[Ole Joe Clark]

I bought a field grade 16 gauge this year for less than 250.00. A nice gun, it goes with my 20 gauge rather nicely. The 20 has been with me since 1963, it has aged better than I have.

By the way, the above photos are beautiful.

Have a blessed day,

Leon

 

[thadheth]

It seems that there are a couple of themes running through this thread:
1) Value of the Model 12 has dropped quite a bit in recent years;
2) The quality of the Model 12 was superb, regardless of configuration;
3) Most people want a home defense gun or something new made out of composite and steel.
To me, this seems like a perfect opportunity for those of us who appreciate that older craftsmanship to obtain a fabulous firearm at bargain prices!

 

[Watchdog]

The 16-gauge seems to be experiencing something of a resurgence in popularity. At least in my neck of the woods. And they seem to sell quickly. A nice pre-'64 Model 12 in that gauge would go for $400-$500 around here, perhaps a bit more with with nicely grained stock and forearm.

 

[Ole Joe Clark]

Hard to find shells and/or reloading components in my neck of the woods. The only 16 gauge shells that I have are some high brass ones given to me long ago. They kick like the proverbial mule.

 

[Eddie Southgate]

I recall that most of these old 16 gauge 12s had 2 9/16" chambers, vs. the 2 3/4" seen today. I know that they can easily be opened up to fire modern shells--there may be some pressure issues when firing 2 3/4" shells in unmodified guns.

Mine has the short chamber so I either shoot 2 1/2 RSC shells or load my own on a MEC 650 with the short kit added. I would not open the chamber out to shoot 2 3/4 . The 2 9/16 / 2 5/8 chamber will handle the longer shell but it will not eject the fired case as the opening in the frame is also not long enough to allow the case to clear once it is opened. Rabbits and Quail can't tell the difference in a 2.5 and a 2.75 shell. I have a short barrel M12 in 12 ga made in 1917 for my house gun that has fired many rounds of 2 3/4 baby mag #4's as well as 00 Buck without a hiccup. It may have been converted long before I got it but if that is so I can not tell it.

Eddie

 

[rchall]

Made the guy an offer, but he said he might consider it. Buttstock had been shortened and an oversized buttplate had been fitted. Would need to put some money into it to make it look right. Otherwise, not too bad. Will give him time to think about the offer. No big deal if it doesn't work out.

 

[Big Cholla]

You Would Think, But NO!

I recall that most of these old 16 gauge 12s had 2 9/16" chambers, vs. the 2 3/4" seen today. I know that they can easily be opened up to fire modern shells--there may be some pressure issues when firing 2 3/4" shells in unmodified guns.

The chamber area of that barrel is so overbuilt with good steel that there is no problem that will develop from reaming out the 2 9/16" chamber to a 2 3/4" chamber. But, I would take that one step further and use a "Tapered Forcing Cone" reamer available from a few reamer makers. It actually will reduce the apparent chamber pressure and usually cause the shotgun to pattern better. I have those reamers in 20 ga. and 12 ga. but there was never enough demand for the 16 ga. for me to get that one.

The producers of firearms are a 'hidebound' group in some design areas. The standard chamber for shotshells is a 'stepped' design that originated sometime in the late 1800s for paper hulled shells with the roll crimp. The crimps used now are longer and the pattern developed suffers from the shot and wadding being swaged down as they pass that old step in the chamber to barrel transition. Most of the shotgun barrel manufacturers increased the length to accommodate the longer crimp, but kept the 'Step Design'. I never reamed out a standard 12 or 20 ga. barrel to the Tapered Forcing Cone design and failed to improve the pattern.

On my 16th birthday, my Father gave me a slightly used Win. M 12 in 16 ga. Of course it had a fixed choke in Modified. That worked out perfectly for Nevada Quail, Pheasant and Chucker. I kidded my Dad that it was too bad that model Winchester wasn't a Model 16. Then that birthday would have been a 16....16.....16. He didn't think that was funny because he was a dedicated Winchester Model 12 man.

 

[Big Cholla]

Replacement Buttstock

Made the guy an offer, but he said he might consider it. Buttstock had been shortened and an oversized buttplate had been fitted. Would need to put some money into it to make it look right. Otherwise, not too bad. Will give him time to think about the offer. No big deal if it doesn't work out.

Usually the 20 ga. buttstock is a direct swap for the 16 ga. as they were built on the same frame. The 20 ga. buttstock is readily available.

As far as problems ejecting a 2 3/4" fired hull from a shotgun converted from 2 9/16" is easily solved by milling out the leading edge of the port by 1/16" and the rear edge by the same amount. But, I would try it first as most I ever handled would eject the longer hull just fine.