Using rifle powder in a pistol

[fredj338]

There's a huge difference between using a powder that suitable for various bullets weights in a caliber and using a powder that has no published data for that caliber or anything similar.

I have a 135 grain 9mm lead bullet that has no published data, that I can find, yet I can make an educated guess at what a starting load should be based upon 124 and 147 grain data. But taking a powder with no published data and making a guess at a load is a whole another ballgame.

I guess the better question would be - If I take a charge of fast rifle powder, filled up to the base of a bullet what's the worst that can happen? Assuming the powder isn't compressed is there any way an high pressure spike can happen? I'm guessing the result would be erratic pressures on the low side and wild swings in velocity and accuracy, but that is just a guess.

Along that line of thinking. If I put a compressed load of 2400 into a 9mm, it might not even have enough pressure to cycle the action. That same thought process would drive my choice for wildcatting or going off book. Something like QuickLoads would be helpful in giving a direction on non manual powder choices. We are lucky here, we don't have to really experiment but in some countries, it is how they have to reload because they just don't have access to the powder choices we do.

 

[Mad_Charlie]

As I noted before, I have had good results using Rel 7 in my M92 Winchester in .45 Colt...

 

[Wise_A]

I'm going to grab a Lee manual because it may fill in cracks in the data that I already have access too. Which editions are most useful today?

The 2nd, which is about the only one you're going to find lying around. Like I said--it's a goin' to the store type of thing. If you've already got a bunch of manuals, it's probably not going to tell you anything about uncommon bullets (250-grain .45 ACP, for instance, or strange in-betweeners). But it will give you more powders listed in one place than say, Lyman.

 

[buck460XVR]

I'm going to grab a Lee manual because it may fill in cracks in the data that I already have access too. Which editions are most useful today?

The Lee manual is only a collection of already published recipes by others, as Lee does no testing on their own. Anything in the Lee Manual, you may already have.

 

[buck460XVR]

Just don't tell others it can not or should not be done unless you have been there & know, IMHO.

Again, no where did I say it could not be done, only that it probably will not give desired performance. You keep wanting to put the same words in my mouth about can't and don't, when my words were only, why?

You never responded to my question about if you have ever reloaded for .500 mag. It sounds like to me that the OP is fairly new to it himself. My experience with .460 and 500 mag is that they are a creature all of their own and I would advise anyone new to them, to stick to the books and not try oddball components just cause they have 'em on hand. Again, with even the fastest of rifle powders, a compressed load will only give you performance and velocities below that of standard magnum handgun powders. While with experience they may want to push the envelope a tad, there really isn't a valid reason for the most part. The .500 has been around for a dozen years and thus has been reloaded extensively. Reloading for one is not "wildcatting". If the OP is from a foreign country with limited or no access to powder, then I would not question his reasoning for trying something else. Even in those countries tho, shotgun powder is generally more readily available and a better alternative to most rifle powders. But the Op is not from South America, he is from the U.S. and powder is available....he just does not want to spend the $20-$25 for it. Again, a .500 Mag is a high performance firearm that is not cheap to own or to shoot. If you don't want/can't afford to spend the monies feeding it properly, you may as well sell it.

 

[rwsmith]

Maybe this drifty but.....

I think the powder manufacturers could put a LOT more on the web than they do, but then they want to sell reloading manuals, so it's probably not going to happen.

Also, more on subject I guess about one microgram of nitroglycerin might be a good starting load, but I wouldn't expect top performance.

Also, Also. I didn't extrapolate when I could buy about any component I wanted, but when the shortages hit, I had to venture into making things work.

 

[Eddie Southgate]

I think the powder manufacturers could put a LOT more on the web than they do, but then they want to sell reloading manuals, so it's probably not going to happen.

Also, more on subject I guess about one microgram of nitroglycerin might be a good starting load, but I wouldn't expect top performance.

Also, Also. I didn't extrapolate when I could buy about any component I wanted, but when the shortages hit, I had to venture into making things work.

Please let us know when you decide to try the one microgram of nitro load as I would like to be watching .....at a safe distance of course !

Eddie

 

[BruceM]

I've several rifles that are perfect for the 7828, in fact most of them.

Really? Well try it in a .30-30 or .308 or .223/5.56 and let me know how that works out for you. I don't want to know if it goes bang or not but what you get velocity and accuracy wise.

H110 started out as a rifle powder - the standard for the .30 Carbine,

Wep but it's main uses are magnum pistol rounds. The overlap is due to the case capacities vs bullet diameter and weight. Not all that many .218 Bee and .22 Hornet shooters are out there vs mag pistol shooters.

I will respectfully disagree. Just because the manuf hasn't bothered to test a given powder/bullet combo does NOT mean it is unsafe, just untested. Just about any powder can be used to some extent in any caliber. It just requires some extrapolation. Not for beginners, but many of us do wildcat reloading, no data, so we extrapolate all the time.

True IF you have the necessary computer software, pressure testing equipment and the knowhow to use all of the above correctly. Extrapolating charge weights from known load data is NOT a wise method of operation except for the very most experienced loaders and even for those folks, they are playing outside the lines and in the margins. Does the O.P. strike you as one of these folks fredj338?

I didn't think so.

Contrary to the opinion of some of those out there, powder manufacturers have a vested interest in developing data for all suitable applications of their canister grade propellant product line. It is in their best financial interest. This is not rocket science or internal ballistics science but rather market science. These people are in business neither to lose money nor leave it lying on the table.

Anyway, if the answer you're looking for is can I stuff most anything in a brass ammo case and make it go bang when I press the trigger, the answer is probably yes in most instances.

If you're looking to find if the round loaded with the powder will perform as expected based on the designation, the answer in this case is no!

Bruce

 

[fredj338]

You never responded to my question about if you have ever reloaded for .500 mag. It sounds like to me that the OP is fairly new to it himself. My experience with .460 and 500 mag is that they are a creature all of their own and I would advise anyone new to them, to stick to the books and not try oddball components just cause they have 'em on hand. .

No I don't but Looking at case cap & sim rounds, like the 45-70, you could get suitable results using sim rifle powders. I wouldn't be opposed to trying but I don't have a 500, yet. I keep thinking I want one but barely have time to shoot the magnum revs I have now.
Not trying to put words in your mouth but soooo much doom & gloom, premonitions of nuclear destruction. None of us that load more than 2 or 3 calibers sticks to the book exactly. Right now we are blessed with powder availability that makes shooters in other countries swoon with envy. Someday that may not be true. Nothing wrong with careful experimentation IF you feel you have the exp & common sense to go there.

 

[Fishslayer]

I for one, would like a really comprehensive loading manual that's not geared to any one manufacturer or set of manufacturers.

Here ya go. One book (for rach caliber) of manageable size, supposedly every known bullet/powder combo published by the manufacturers for that caliber.

Loadbooks USA, Inc.

 

[Fishslayer]

Right now we are blessed with powder availability that makes shooters in other countries swoon with envy. Someday that may not be true.

Bingo. It has actually not been true more than once in recent memory.

 

[fredj338]

Here ya go. One book (for rach caliber) of manageable size, supposedly every known bullet/powder combo published by the manufacturers for that caliber.

Loadbooks USA, Inc.

Loadbooks are geat, but still just a compilation of other book data. So no, not definitive at all. I understand what rw is saying. It would ne nice if a lab took the effort to test the say 50 available powder & 100s of diff bullets & put the results in print. You could do it with a program like quickloafs, but that is still educated guessing.

 

[buck460XVR]

.
Not trying to put words in your mouth but soooo much doom & gloom, premonitions of nuclear destruction.

But there you go again doing exactly that. It's almost like you are arguing with yourself. Again, no where did I say anything about being unsafe. You keep saying/inferring I did, but it ain't happened yet. But I should have. I should have warned new reloaders to take any advice from self proclaimed internet experts with a grain of salt and to verify whatever they say with something tested and published by someone reputable in the reloading industry. Anyone telling those folks new to reloading that they don't need to follow book loads and try any powder/bullet combo they want is foolhardy, and any new reloader that takes that advice is a fool.

We as reloaders are given a dozen or so recipes in most manuals for a specific bullet/powder combination within a given caliber. We try them and weed out those that don't work the best in our guns for the purpose we want, and decide on one or two that do work well for us. The publishers of that manual have already narrowed down the field of combinations to those most appropriate and have performed the best for them in the test platform. Many of then tell us the load most likely to give us best accuracy. Why do we need another 88 powder choices for poor performance with a specific bullet? I know I don't, nor do I actually believe there may be a better combination out there with an inappropriate powder for my firearm.

Speer is gonna give recipes for Speer bullets. Nosler is going to give recipes for their bullets. Speer may be a tad biased towards Alliant because they are in bed with them, but in the end, whether it is a bullet manufacturer or powder manufacturer, they are going to promote their product. Doesn't make sense not to. Just like it does not make sense to promote bullet/powder recipes that perform poorly. Giving another 90 or so recipes that produce poor performance is not endearing themto the reloading world. These companies also know from experience and technology, what powder/bullet combos are appropriate and which ones are not. Lyman's manual tends to be the most neutral.

Agian this is not TEOTWAWKI, there are plenty of powders appropriate for loading .500 mag readily available, with plenty of safe published loads that will give the best performance one could ask for outta a hand cannon. There s no reason to reinvent the wheel. It's still going to be round.

 

[AveragEd]

Use rifle powder in a pistol? I guess it depends upon your definition of a pistol.

Ed

 

[fredj338]

It's fine buck, as once said, "a man's got to know his limitations".
I am not advocating that shooters go off book, even though the vast majority do. What I am opposed to are the self proclaimed experts that say NEVER do this or that, because they read it someplace. My expertise are diff than your or someone elses. Nothing self proclaimed about it. Just is what it is.

 

[Bkreutz]

Back in the height of the powder shortage, one conversation that was common at the matches was about how 50BMG powder seemed to be the only powder available and wondering if we could run that stuff through a coffee grinder and use it for pistol powder Before anyone goes off the deep end about this, we were all aware that it couldn't work, but it was something to talk about between stages. Still....................

 

[Rogeronimo]

Has anyone obtained satisfactory results using non-dairy coffee creamer?

 

[Wise_A]

Why would you do it when powder is cheap and available, and load data is spilling out all over the place? What's the justification? Flipping around now, I was able to find no less than a dozen powders with listed data, without flipping through a single manual.

If all goes well, and the unlisted combination one selects is safe (and they've selected an appropriate starting charge) then one is moderately inconvenienced, and has to lay out $20 for a little powder.

If the combination is indeed hazardous, one has a blown gun, and perhaps some medical bills.

Where we differ isn't in what we think is safe. The difference is in what we're willing to tell strangers on the internet. And the only one who has declared himself an expert, sir, is you.

 

[fredj338]

Why would you do it when powder is cheap and available, and load data is spilling out all over the place? What's the justification? Flipping around now, I was able to find no less than a dozen powders with listed data, without flipping through a single manual.

If all goes well, and the unlisted combination one selects is safe (and they've selected an appropriate starting charge) then one is moderately inconvenienced, and has to lay out $20 for a little powder.

If the combination is indeed hazardous, one has a blown gun, and perhaps some medical bills.

Where we differ isn't in what we think is safe. The difference is in what we're willing to tell strangers on the internet. And the only one who has declared himself an expert, sir, is you.

Now we know the genesis of your handle. Go ahead be afraid, there are many like you. Never do this, never do that, we get it. Going off book s always about being safe, not so much about performance. If someone wants to give it a go, pretty sure they know the risks, after all, the books tell you ever do this, never do that. If i had 8# of 4198, or sim, i could make it work in the 500.

 

[BigBill]

Be the first on your block to,,,,..well,,,,,dont do it, don't even think about it.